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So question

A unit with ignore wounds 6+ takes a wound

do I get to try to ignore it on a 6+, and it if fails it is now suffered, and I can hand it off to a bodyguard?

 Grundz wrote:
So question

A unit with ignore wounds 6+ takes a wound

do I get to try to ignore it on a 6+, and it if fails it is now suffered, and I can hand it off to a bodyguard?

It depends what bodyguard you mean.

If you mean an Honour Guard style rule where the roll happens for every wound lost, you cannot stack that with "Feel No Pain" due to the errata about ignoring wounds. However, if you use the bodyguard rule and convert it to a mortal wound, the bodyguard itself can try to ignore the wound.

If you mean an T'au Drone style rule that happens when the unit is hit, then yes you can attempt the rule first, and if it fails then attempt the "Feel No Pain" effect on each wound lost.

What does the actual rule you are referencing say?

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
So question

A unit with ignore wounds 6+ takes a wound
do I get to try to ignore it on a 6+, and it if fails it is now suffered, and I can hand it off to a bodyguard?

It depends what bodyguard you mean.
If you mean an Honour Guard style rule where the roll happens for every wound lost, you cannot stack that with "Feel No Pain" due to the errata about ignoring wounds. However, if you use the bodyguard rule and convert it to a mortal wound, the bodyguard itself can try to ignore the wound.
If you mean an T'au Drone style rule that happens when the unit is hit, then yes you can attempt the rule first, and if it fails then attempt the "Feel No Pain" effect on each wound lost.

I was looking at sisters celestials w/ the order that gives 6+ FNP

The model has a 6+ feel no pain, the bodyguard converts it to a mortal wound and also has a 6+ feel no pain

Also, if i'm reading this right, the unit would suffer a mortal wound for each wound prevented, so instead of eating a single shot that does 5 wounds, 5 of them would line up and individually die to soak up the wounds? ~_^

 Grundz wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Grundz wrote:
So question

A unit with ignore wounds 6+ takes a wound
do I get to try to ignore it on a 6+, and it if fails it is now suffered, and I can hand it off to a bodyguard?

It depends what bodyguard you mean.
If you mean an Honour Guard style rule where the roll happens for every wound lost, you cannot stack that with "Feel No Pain" due to the errata about ignoring wounds. However, if you use the bodyguard rule and convert it to a mortal wound, the bodyguard itself can try to ignore the wound.
If you mean an T'au Drone style rule that happens when the unit is hit, then yes you can attempt the rule first, and if it fails then attempt the "Feel No Pain" effect on each wound lost.

I was looking at sisters celestials w/ the order that gives 6+ FNP

The model has a 6+ feel no pain, the bodyguard converts it to a mortal wound and also has a 6+ feel no pain

Also, if i'm reading this right, the unit would suffer a mortal wound for each wound prevented, so instead of eating a single shot that does 5 wounds, 5 of them would line up and individually die to soak up the wounds? ~_^

Yes but they could try and soak them by their 6+++

 Mr Morden wrote:

Yes but they could try and soak them by their 6+++

Note: not trying to get in a fight, but this is how i'm reading it

So character eats a hit 3 wounds, fails save, rolls 6+++, fails
At this point, the ignore rules faq says "its possible for some units to gain more than one ignore wounds abilities, but they can't blah blah blah"

BUT, the bodyguard rule, is on a different unit, its not worded as the character gaining an ability to ignore wounds, its an outside source and "ignore" is lacking in the wording, its just "does not lose a wound"

So thats where my confusion lies I guess! Its not a huge deal because celestians are pretty bad.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
This thread seems to confirm, it turns out tyranids have models that can be bodyguarded that have feel no pain too
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/744632.page

"Yes, you resolve the attack fully, including FNP effects, because the Tyrant will not trigger the "loses a wound" effect until it's actually lost. You go though all possible mitigation, then when the Tyrant finally loses a wound, you roll to see if the bodyguard turns it into a mortal wound on itself instead."

You can't do that anymore because the errata for Ignore Wounds prevents it. If you use the non-bodyguard rule first, you forfeit the ability to use the bodyguard rule. You have to use the bodguard rule first, and then have the bodyguard itself use their own ignore wounds rule.

Not true. A bodyguard type rule is a rule on a different unit, and the wording of the Ignore Wounds FAQ boxout says “If a model has more than one such ability, you can only use one of those abilities each time the model loses a wound.”

For example a Leviathan Hive Tyrant with Tyrant Guard. Tyrant takes and fails save, fails Leviathan ‘ignore wounds’ roll. Wound is lost. As the Tyrant Guard’s bodyguard rule is on a different model it can absolutely now be activated to avoid the Tyrant taking a wound, then the TG can take its own ignore wounds roll. The Hive Tyrant has one ignore wounds rule, the Tyrant Guard is a different unit giving the HT a benefit. At no point in this is one model using two of its own Ignores Wounds abilities.

Someone let me know if I’m reading this wrong but I don’t think I am. Always open to being wrong when stapling rules together, but I don’t see any flaws in the above logic, RAW.

I'm not finding a fault in your reasoning JohnnyHell. The Bodyguard rules are not Ignore Wounds Rules, they are do not lose take a Wound Rules.

 alextroy wrote:
I'm not finding a fault in your reasoning JohnnyHell. The Bodyguard rules are not Ignore Wounds Rules, they are do not lose take a Wound Rules.

They only trigger when you lose a wound, and cause you to not lose a wound. That's the very definition of an Ignore Wounds ability.

Honour Guard: Roll a D6 each time a friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit – the CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.

BRB Errara wrote:Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g. Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you can only use one of those abilities each time the model loses a wound.

Codex Heretic Astartes Death Guard Page 68 wrote:DISGUSTINGLY RESILIENT
Each time a model with this ability loses a wound, roll a dice; on a 5+, the model does not lose that wound.

As you can see, Disgustingly Resilient and Honour Guard have the same wording, and Disgustingly Resilient is explicitly called out as an "Ignoring Wounds" ability, therefore Honour Guards is also an "Ignoring Wounds" ability.

That being said, I see the point about the rule saying "If a model has more than one such ability", and the rule being on the Honour Guard instead of the Character itself. Looks like another quirky "RaW" interaction, eh? Seems like you can stack Ignore Wounds by "abusing" RaW!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I'm not finding a fault in your reasoning JohnnyHell. The Bodyguard rules are not Ignore Wounds Rules, they are do not lose take a Wound Rules.

They only trigger when you lose a wound, and cause you to not lose a wound. That's the very definition of an Ignore Wounds ability.

<snip>

As you can see, Disgustingly Resilient and Honour Guard have the same wording, and Disgustingly Resilient is explicitly called out as an "Ignoring Wounds" ability, therefore Honour Guards is also an "Ignoring Wounds" ability.

That being said, I see the point about the rule saying "If a model has more than one such ability", and the rule being on the Honour Guard instead of the Character itself. Looks like another quirky "RaW" interaction, eh? Seems like you can stack Ignore Wounds by "abusing" RaW!

Strictly speaking, the BRB errata applies to when a model has more than one ability which would cause it to lose a wound. Taking the specific example of an Iron Hands Captain and Honour Guard, there are three abilities at play here:

Captain's "Flesh is Weak" (Ability on character, prevents wounds to self, errata applies)
Honour Guard bodyguard (Ability on squad, prevents wounds to character, errata does not apply)
Honour Guard's "Flesh is Weak" (Ability on squad, prevents wound to self, errata applies)

So the errata would only look at the two instances of "Flesh is Weak"; however, the errata says that you can only apply one each time the model loses the wound and the two instances of "Flesh is Weak" apply to different models. So there's nothing in the errata to prevent you from using both instances of the ability.

So yeah, RAW you can apply all three abilities. I suspect the intent was for the errata to check if the rule was being used twice on a given wound so that you can't do these shenanigans, but that would be my interpretation of RAI and not the RAW.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
I'm not finding a fault in your reasoning JohnnyHell. The Bodyguard rules are not Ignore Wounds Rules, they are do not lose take a Wound Rules.

They only trigger when you lose a wound, and cause you to not lose a wound. That's the very definition of an Ignore Wounds ability.

Honour Guard: Roll a D6 each time a friendly <CHAPTER> CHARACTER loses a wound whilst they are within 3" of this unit; on a 2+ a model from this unit can intercept that hit – the CHARACTER does not lose a wound but this unit suffers a mortal wound.

BRB Errara wrote:Some units have abilities that allow them to ignore the damage suffered each time it loses a wound (e.g. Disgustingly Resilient, The Flesh is Weak and Tenacious Survivor). If a model has more than one such ability, you can only use one of those abilities each time the model loses a wound.

Codex Heretic Astartes Death Guard Page 68 wrote:DISGUSTINGLY RESILIENT
Each time a model with this ability loses a wound, roll a dice; on a 5+, the model does not lose that wound.

As you can see, Disgustingly Resilient and Honour Guard have the same wording, and Disgustingly Resilient is explicitly called out as an "Ignoring Wounds" ability, therefore Honour Guards is also an "Ignoring Wounds" ability.

That being said, I see the point about the rule saying "If a model has more than one such ability", and the rule being on the Honour Guard instead of the Character itself. Looks like another quirky "RaW" interaction, eh? Seems like you can stack Ignore Wounds by "abusing" RaW!

In a horrifying role reversal, how do you know it’s ‘quirky’ or ‘unintended’? No model is making more than one ignores wounds roll, which is the letter of the law. Your earlier posts seem to be from a ‘what you wish the rules say’ POV, not a ‘what the rules as written actually say’ standpoint. When corrected you choose to pile on snark and throw not-so-subtle shade. You can do better, man.