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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 08:08:09
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Fresh-Faced New User
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I was going to ask for one of the army mega paint sets for Christmas off my family but I thought I better check if the money was better spent elsewhere?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 08:26:18
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Regular Dakkanaut
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I'm fairly curious too: from what I've heard the Vallejo paints are better, but their paint sets don't save you anything from buying individually (or not much anyway). The big game colour 72 set is more expensive than buying individually - usually things like this they give you the case free. There are a few brushes in it too.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 22:57:49
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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I have one of the Army Painter mega sets, and about as many colors of Vallejo. The Army painter paints are fine. They separate somewhat quickly compared to other brands and need a good shake, but otherwise they do what they should. I do prefer to use my Vallejo colors whenever possible, though. Vallejo just has so many solid products, such as their heavy opaque colors which can often give you coverage in one thin coat. They also have a slightly better consistency and don't separate as quickly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 23:15:33
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Lieutenant General
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Luciferian wrote:Vallejo just has so many solid products, such as their heavy opaque colors which can often give you coverage in one thin coat.
The Game Color extra opaque paints are just relabeled Model Color paints.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/18 23:16:26
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 23:23:25
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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You have any kind of source for that? I have quite a few Game Color and Model Color paints and the Extra Opaque paints seem different from both lines.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 23:46:06
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Lieutenant General
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Luciferian wrote:You have any kind of source for that? I have quite a few Game Color and Model Color paints and the Extra Opaque paints seem different from both lines.
Yes the source is Vallejo themselves:
http://cdn.acrylicosvallejo.com/3125a70282d7ae1b26302b70f227e502/model-FAQS-CC001-rev03.pdf
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 23:48:31
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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According to that they use the same formula, but I don't think they're necessarily the same colors.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 23:52:21
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Lieutenant General
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Luciferian wrote:According to that they use the same formula, but I don't think they're necessarily the same colors.
From the FAQ (emphasis added):
4.4. Are the colors in Game color the same as in Model Color, only more liquid?
No, we produced a selection of colors designed for Fantasy Figures, and although the basic colors (red, blue, etc.) may be alike, the major part of the range will not have any match in Model Color, always excepting the 16 colors in the Extra Opaque series, which have exact equivalents in the Model Color range.
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'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/18 23:55:04
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Contagious Dreadnought of Nurgle
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Ah, I see. Well, I still have and use a bunch of them and they are very opaque whether they're called Game Color or Model Color.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/19 00:07:24
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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Go to Poundland/The Works and buy a bunch of acrylic paints from there.
'Spend' your christmas present on something else.
There's no essential difference between Army Painter, Vallejo, Citadel and dollar-store acrylics except the branding and availability of colours. I have a few Citadel washes and Ceramite White, a few Army Painter metallics and a skin-tone and everything else is from Dollarama or mixed from Dollarama paints..
I have a plog linked in my sig if you want to see how using cheap acrylics works out. Every Daemon in there (and twenty other Daemonettes that were sold a few years ago) was painted using less than half of a $1.25 tube of 'Lavender' paint which is still perfectly usable.
Just be aware that my poor painting skills and reliance on drybrushing are my failings, not my paint's.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/19 20:56:55
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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Excommunicatus wrote:
There's no essential difference between Army Painter, Vallejo, Citadel and dollar-store acrylics except the branding and availability of colours.
...and pigment particle size, opacity, viscosity, adhesion, drying time, durability, longevity of the brand, surprise, fear, ruthless efficiency..
But other than that, no, there's no essential difference. And yes, many people get perfectly acceptable results from cheap craft paints, although I tend to relegate them to terrain and basing use, and stick with the model-painting ranges for actual models. If you can find good craft paints, they'll be fine for general table-top use, but it can be a bit of a lucky dip to find those good paints.
So far as Army Painter vs Vallejo - Army Painter colours tend to be thinner, and so need more coats - which is fine if you paint that way anyway. Vallejo are mostly more like Citadel paints to use, and most give good coverage straight out of the bottle, or can be thinned for more precise work.
From my experience, Vallejo metallics are rubbish (although I've heard good things about their Airbrush metallics) - I tend to use Coat D'Arms and P3 for metals, rather than Army Painter, so I couldn't say if AP is any better.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/19 22:24:56
Subject: Re:Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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For the vast majority of us, paint is paint.
Maybe you can make the case that it matters at the high-end, I wouldn't know - I'm Captain Drybrush - but most of us don't paint at the high-end which makes spending five times as much (or more) on a branded paint kinda silly.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 01:04:10
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Dakka Veteran
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Cheap hobby paints are not the same as miniature paints. Funnily enough, miniature paints are a LOT better for painting miniatures, it's not all a con to sell paints in smaller pots for more money. I don't think you're in the majority with your "paint is paint" philosophy either. Most people on this board use miniature paints. Kitsan is looking for advice, not fringe theories.
Kitsan, regarding Army Painter paints, in my honest opinion they're not top-line paints. To be honest, I haven't used very many of them, but that's because the ones I used were not great, so I have avoided the brand since. Well, actually the brand does some great stuff - their spray cans are very good, and their dip varnish is top tier. I just don't like their basic dropper bottle paints. I found the coverage to be not great, so they were frustrating to use. In my opinion, you can't go wrong with Citadel Paints and Vallejo. The Citadel ones get a bad rap, strangely, but that seems to be entirely down to the design of the pots. The paint itself is excellent.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 01:09:00
Subject: Re:Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Painlord Titan Princeps of Slaanesh
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People on this board represent a tiny, tiny minority of hobbyists, typically grouped more towards the higher-end so what people here do doesn't speak to what most of "us" do.
There's no essential difference. Try it out. Or keep paying more for paint, pointlessly.
Your money, I don't care.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 01:52:27
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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[MOD]
Making Stuff
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feltmonkey wrote: The Citadel ones get a bad rap, strangely, but that seems to be entirely down to the design of the pots. The paint itself is excellent.
The pot design is a more minor niggle, aside from amongst the 'dropper bottles are king!' crowd. The main problem with Citadel paints is simply their price - while they're good paints, they're not really any better than any of their main competitors, but have a higher price tag for less paint.
There's also he constant range changes over the years, which I've found personally frustrating as they always seemed to can the colours that I was specifically using for my projects. This eventually taught me to be less reliant on a single brand for the colours I want... So these days, I use a mix of Army Painter, Vallejo, P3, Coat D'Arms, and AK Interactive, with a box of Mig paints sitting waiting to be tried out...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 02:02:47
Subject: Re:Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
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From personal experience:
Craft paints are not the best for painting miniatures. They do not cover as well and they are more difficult to work with.Most people I've met do use specialized miniature paints (if they paint at all).
I prefer Vallejo paints to Army painter paints any day of the week. AP tend to be thin as said and they can be a real pain to work with. I only use them when I'm using their colored primers and even then Vallejo has a range of colored sprays now, so... That said Army Painter stuff is certainly usable but I'd recommend Vallejo.
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Thought for the day: Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
30k Ultramarines: 2000 pts
Bolt Action Germans: ~1200 pts
AOS Stormcast: Just starting.
The Empire : ~60-70 models.
1500 pts
: My Salamanders painting blog 16 Infantry and 2 Vehicles done so far! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 04:19:07
Subject: Re:Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Drooling Labmat
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After using army painter and vallejo paints for my miniatures, army painter is indeed quite thin sometimes, but generally it's quite nice and it means you don't have to water it down as much. At the same time, it means that it's quite annoying and you have to use more coats to get the same finish. I prefer Vallejo because it has a really nice consistency and quite reliable. I would go with vallejo paints.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 06:04:15
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Regular Dakkanaut
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Honestly cannot say that any Army Painter warpaint has worked for me. They just have this... opaque matt feel? (looking for better words). The five or so bottles I have bought have all ended up being replaced with something from Vallejo. That said, their spray paints are good for a base coat and I prefer their dry brushes to the others I have tried.
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Coenus Scaldingus wrote:In my day, you didn't recognize the greatest heroes of humanity because they had to ride the biggest creatures or be massive in size themselves. No, they had the most magnificent facial hair! If it was good enough for Kurt Helborg and Ludwig Schwarzhelm, it should be good enough for anyone! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 10:13:56
Subject: Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Fresh-Faced New User
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Thanks very much guys, I'll ask for Vallejo!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 10:29:32
Subject: Re:Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Legendary Dogfighter
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It's no competition.
Vallejo Model Colour or Foundry are the only things you need in life.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2018/12/20 12:50:28
Subject: Re:Army painter vs Vallejo paints
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Dakka Veteran
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Excommunicatus wrote:People on this board represent a tiny, tiny minority of hobbyists, typically grouped more towards the higher-end so what people here do doesn't speak to what most of "us" do.
I don't know where you're getting the idea that most hobbyists use the cheap paint you are using. I think you are wrong about that. Perhaps it is the case in your local area. Obviously I have no statistical data to back this up, beyond having never met a single person in the hobby who uses that sort of paint for mini painting.
There's no essential difference. Try it out. Or keep paying more for paint, pointlessly.
Your money, I don't care.
There's no need to be passive-aggressive about it. I have used a variety of paints, I use some paint from tubes, I have a cheap set of acrylics, as well as oil paints, a couple of expensive artist's acrylic white tubes. I'm open to using unusual stuff. It's just that the claim that paint is paint, it's all the same stuff just isn't correct. It's as Insaniak says, there are crucial differences in the pigments and the texture of the paints. Tube paints tend to be designed for use on card or canvas, on large works of art. Therefore strength of coverage over a tiny area isn't important, and neither is keeping the paint as thin and workable as we need to do. It's not even just a case of the more expensive tube paints being better - I spent like £10 on a tube of white that was unusable. It was so thick, and by the time I thinned it down enough to get it to flow right it didn't cover anything! That's why I mentioned I had "a couple" of white tubes. Miniature paints are created to flow right and cover consistently over a small area.
There's also ease of use to consider. One advantage of using miniature paints is how easy it makes replicating a colour scheme over an army that might have been built up over a number of years. If you're painting Dark Angels you know it's just Caliban Green, Warpstone Glow Edge highlight, Moot Green spot highlight. That's how you get an army that looks uniform on the table. Trying to mix the right colours from scratch every time is tough, especially if the dollar store you're using changes stock and you end up with a completely different brand of paint to what you've been using. The OP might not want to spend a lot of time mixing paint, and thinning to just the right consistency. Of course we have to thin our miniature paints anyway, but in my experience it's a bit of a faff trying to thin tube paints, more so than model paints. Tube paints are very thick compared to model paints. Even an experienced painter would most likely have a tough time going from miniature paints to tube paints at first, and a beginner would have no frame of reference as to how thin the paint should be, so it would be even tougher.
I've had a look in your gallery, and you're clearly making it work - your stuff looks great! I reckon that might have more to do with your own skill than the intrinsic ability of the paints you're using to replicate the qualities of miniature paint. You prove that it's certainly possible to get good results with the paints you're using, but I would suggest it's a lot harder, and the fiddling around required would put a lot of beginners off if that's what they went straight to. I don't think the OP is a beginner, judging by his one gallery pic of a very nice space wolf captain, so he's going to know what he likes using. I think anyone else who was just beginning and took your advice would save themselves money, but be making work for themselves.
Just to reiterate - I'm not trying to persuade you to change - as I say, it works for you. Keep doing what you're doing. But the price of miniature paints is not a con. If you can afford it (I can't but I buy them anyway) they do tend to be worth it.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2018/12/20 12:55:18
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