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Hatachi wrote:
Give me Dark Mechanicum and Lost and the Damned as full Citadel supported armies and I'll be happy as a clam. Did you see those models in Black Fortress?

This. Idk why they aren't GW armies in the first place tbh.

You can sort of do it now.
Warp Smiths
Maulers/Obliterators
Cultists (conscripted forge slaves)
the whole range of daemon engines.

You can even include daemons, just say that the ones they summon are being given a jump in line for binding to new daemon engines.

Still be much nicer to have an actual list. Especially that way so you don't have to take Marines, for those of us who don't like them.

DM would be much better on their own than a skin-cover.

Its been recorded in many recent books (such as the BL Trilogy) that Mechanicum units have survived since the Heresy. Who would love to see Warped-up Thallax Cohorts? I would deffo for one!

Agreed. I think gw needs to first focus on refreshing older kits then possibly expanding on some factions.

But id be interested in traitor guard/chaos cults.. Or some sort of giant space station of scum and villainy, all the freaks and outcasts of 40k under some sort of pirate like banner. Could get some pretty cool units out of that. All the stuff they might want to design but doesn't fit in any particular faction.

Sir Heckington wrote:I'd say a Tau Aux army, and probably the Hrud. Maybe the Q'orl, the bug people who have more personality than Tyranids while still being cool bugs?

Those are some good choices as well. Especially if the Hrud and Q'Orl where given their own client races to lord over like the Tau have the Kroot and Vespids.

Kroot and Vespid definitely can be expanded upon. Demiurg's are 100% suitable, and Human aux should be allowed in matched play. Also, plenty of Minor Xenos empire larger than the Tau exist. Hrud? Q'orl? A few others I think too.

Find the idea of allowing "primatives" in the game appealing, when I started all this mumbles years ago there was even rules for doing it - specifically taking WHFB armies and facing them off against 40k ones, which wasn't as unbalanced as you may expect.

would hope AoS and 40k eventually get back to where thats possible (by adding a bit more to AoS ideally, not stripping 40k down more)

would also like to see, but doubt I ever will, something akin to Mantics "Uncharted Empires" for 40k, i.e. generic rules for generic trope armies to allow other peoples models into the universe - most of the other models, not all but most, don't look anything like as good so I doubt GW have anything to actually fear here

but the idea of 40k allowing you to say see what a few squads of marines could have done at Waterloo, or something akin to Zulu is interesting.

in terms of GW property, would quite like to see Skaven in 40k, something lurking under hive worlds, stowaways on lower decks of transports, mix of low tech, stolen high tech and warp stuff

 Sir Heckington wrote:

Hatachi wrote:
Give me Dark Mechanicum and Lost and the Damned as full Citadel supported armies and I'll be happy as a clam. Did you see those models in Black Fortress?

This. Idk why they aren't GW armies in the first place tbh.

I mean they are the rules just are dogshite or cut away in the process.....

Sometimes i wish 7th back and my good old army of r&h dark magos shenanigans. Until i realize that 7th was even less usefull then the new FW indexes....

Feels bad.

please bring back SQUAT!

epronovost wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dear god why? 40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.

Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.

so drasticly trim down existing product line, some of which are your most popular ones, to introduce new armies with no garentee of popularity? yeah no.

As for armies to bring in, I'd like to see Tau Auxilleries. they could easily expand on this to produce several new armies. People seem to want more Xenos, but I think it's easier and safer to introduce new armies that can tie into soup with existing armies, and Tau are one of the easier Xenos races for this.

Daemon worlds like in 2nd 40K. Troop choices:

-Beastmen
-Chaos Warriors and NOT CSM
-Trolls
-Minotaurs

They have already published beastmen for 40K for that board game.

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dear god why? 40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.

Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.

No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.

I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.

New Faction? Rogue Trader, using space ship crew, mercenaries, and whatever to facilitate 'hostile take-overs'.

New Race? Squats, of course.

Though either of these would be do-able with the current rules and Codex crop.

I'd agree that the opportunity to add small factions through Kill Team is too good to pass up. Keep the interest in new models going, without the problems of a full support service from GW.

What I'd like to see...

Men of Iron (not affiliated with the Imperium) - low count of insanely powerful but slow sentient machines. Think of Custodes/UR-025 level strong basic troops, or something similar to Geth from Mass Effect.

Non/Less-humanoid Xenos - Living goo, XCOM aliens, Reptilians and dragons, insectoids... Stellaris and other space games offer plenty of inspiration in this one.

Private Megacorporation / Rogue Trader's private system. - could be a conglomerate of different species or using Necromunda models.

Although the biggest issue for a new race is to make them unique, so it's not just some other army with different looks, which is unlikely we will see a new army, as most of the options are already present in some form.

+1 to no new races for me. We already have plenty and I'd like to see a reduction in some places. Dark Mechanicum is a good example of something that would just add to the bloat. Just use Ad Mech and convert some stuff. Is it perfect? No, but it's good enough. That's how people used to do a lot of these armies before GW produced models for them. I've seen Ad Mech armies made out of Guard or even using the old Eldar Codex in previous editions before they got their own book. I miss that kind of creativity that GW seems intent on completely stamping out.

If a new race was to be introduced the one question you'd have to answer would be "what makes them different on the tabletop". Any new army has to fill a niche that isn't currently occupied. Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.

Slipspace wrote:
I miss that kind of creativity that GW seems intent on completely stamping out.

How does GW stamp it out? I mean, they're all too happy to show off people's conversions on their social media and in White Dwarf. They're open about encouraging people to come up with their own house rules for things that aren't in the official rules.

I'd like for the various Tau client races to get more development. A couple of units and character types each would do, enough to do a Kill Team roster for all of them and to allow the possibility of them also fighting amongst themselves or allying with factions other than the Tau

I'd also like some new Adeptus Arbites, but I'm torn about those. They'd end up as a full army when all I really want is a unit or two to add to anImperial force. Like what happened with Grey Knights and Deathwatch.

 AndrewGPaul wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
I miss that kind of creativity that GW seems intent on completely stamping out.

How does GW stamp it out? I mean, they're all too happy to show off people's conversions on their social media and in White Dwarf. They're open about encouraging people to come up with their own house rules for things that aren't in the official rules.

Their "no model no rules" policy and the release of new armies like Ad Mech is how they're stamping it out (or at least reducing exposure to it). It's not an official edict against anything, just a change in approach that's led to the same result. I'm not so sure I buy the idea that they're encouraging people to come up with their own house rules. Maybe it's just me, but I saw much more of that 20 years ago than I do now. GW like to pay lip service to their 3 ways to play but I don't see anywhere near the support for narrative and house rules as they had decades ago. Just my experience of it though, so YMMV.

Slipspace wrote:
Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.

It's not a good reason? It's the best reason to add anything.

If GW were to introduce any new factions they shoudl work on making sure each army has an ally.

Tau as mentioned should get a codex Tau allies or somethign as mentioned before, add a section for them to ally imperial guard and then an alien races fo rmroe kroot, vespid and maybe a new close combat more elite species so they have a good cc option. .

Orks should have some kind of ally as well and so should Necrons. Orks maybe expand grots and give them more guns to have mroe of a shooting option ally that is mroe reliable. (i would beg GW for no random shot or strength weapons in this codex so orks have a reliable gunfield as an ally). On the Necrons front maybe somehow work them in with men of Iron or something as newcrons seem moreopen to working with other species the remaining men of iron make contact and begin to grow with them? idk if that works but GW can figure somethign out.

Azeroth wrote:please bring back SQUAT!

Agreed.

Moriarty wrote:New Faction? Rogue Trader, using space ship crew, mercenaries, and whatever to facilitate 'hostile take-overs'.

New Race? Squats, of course.

Though either of these would be do-able with the current rules and Codex crop.

I'd agree that the opportunity to add small factions through Kill Team is too good to pass up. Keep the interest in new models going, without the problems of a full support service from GW.

Kill Team would definitely be an excellent way to introduce more factions, since such a small scale game would make the perfect testing ground for gauging the popularity of say, a potential Kroot or Vespid army. Also agree with you on the Rogue Trader front right there. If there's one Sci-Fi trope that's in dire need of tabletop representation, it's the MegaCorp trope.

Hawky wrote:What I'd like to see...

Men of Iron (not affiliated with the Imperium) - low count of insanely powerful but slow sentient machines. Think of Custodes/UR-025 level strong basic troops, or something similar to Geth from Mass Effect.

Non/Less-humanoid Xenos - Living goo, XCOM aliens, Reptilians and dragons, insectoids... Stellaris and other space games offer plenty of inspiration in this one.

Private Megacorporation / Rogue Trader's private system. - could be a conglomerate of different species or using Necromunda models.

Although the biggest issue for a new race is to make them unique, so it's not just some other army with different looks, which is unlikely we will see a new army, as most of the options are already present in some form.

Yes to Men of Iron and Rogue Traders. You could probably pull some less-humanoid race from the 40k lore as a faction if GW tried hard enough.

Dysartes wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.

It's not a good reason? It's the best reason to add anything.

Agreed, rule of cool is one of the greatest reasons to add new armies to the game. You just have to justify that coolness with interesting ideas regarding mechanics and lore.

G00fySmiley wrote:If GW were to introduce any new factions they shoudl work on making sure each army has an ally.

Tau as mentioned should get a codex Tau allies or somethign as mentioned before, add a section for them to ally imperial guard and then an alien races fo rmroe kroot, vespid and maybe a new close combat more elite species so they have a good cc option. .

Orks should have some kind of ally as well and so should Necrons. Orks maybe expand grots and give them more guns to have mroe of a shooting option ally that is mroe reliable. (i would beg GW for no random shot or strength weapons in this codex so orks have a reliable gunfield as an ally). On the Necrons front maybe somehow work them in with men of Iron or something as newcrons seem moreopen to working with other species the remaining men of iron make contact and begin to grow with them? idk if that works but GW can figure somethign out.

I agree, the Imperium have a buttload of allies in the form of Space Marines, Imperial Guards, Sisters of Battle, and various other armies under the banner of the God-Emperor. The Tau obviously have a more easier potential to be given new allied armies since they have a bunch of vassal races at their disposal. Though I'm not too sure about the idea of giving Orks some allied armies since they're kind of a chaotic bunch that would probably have trouble maintaining foreign relations with friendly allies. On the other hand, I could totally see the Necrons and the Men of Iron working together since they're both robotic factions with possibly similar interests regarding fighting meatbags. Though I would rather have the Men of Iron be their own separate faction rather than a vassal of the Necrons.

The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.

 Melissia wrote:
The Tau Empire was listed as just one of many xenos empires struggling to survive and expand upon the fringes of the Imperium. If we're gonna add new factions, small xenos empires like the Tau are a great place to start.

... ya know, that's a neat idea for a chapter approved article, "xenos creation rules"

I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.

Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"

I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.

I know GW isn't likely to do it since outside of chaos they seem only interested in releasing new units not updating old units but I would rather them clean up the lingering fail cast/ metal models that remain for various factions.

Particularly for Eldar (an army I don't even play). Its ridiculous that a faction that is a cornerstone of the setting has half or more of it's range 15 plus years old.

 Carnage43 wrote:
I'd be interested in a high tech, non-imperium, non-chaos human army. Something that's been isolated for millennia and popped back onto the galactic stage.

Could play them as "Hey weren't not mutants, or chaos! Join us fellow humans and throw off the yoke of your imperial oppressors!"

I think there was a story from the heresy era about the Interex? Not sure how you would make it work, as I feel it would basically be Tau with different looking toys.....in fact I might have an idea for my next army....hmmmmmm.

Yeah, the Interex used to exist. They were wiped out by the Imperium. Apparently the Interex never read De Re Militari (where "If you want peace, prepare for war" came from) and didn't invest in military tech, so when the Imperium came by they got outgunned despite their overall more advanced technology.

It would be nice to see an Interex spiritual successor though. Maybe a fringe Imperial world that got its hand on some xeno tech, started to reverse engineer it and somehow began to take neighboring fringe worlds. The idea being that they are so far away that by the time the Imperium found out that they exist, they already captured a few worlds and set up a strong series of defenses.

 Argive wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:

epronovost wrote:

 Wyzilla wrote:
Dear god why? 40K is already ridiculously bloated and needs a severe trimming of all the factions present along with an excessive amount of work to provide even a semblance of balance? Why do you want to add to the complexity, further bloating the amount of stats that need be tweaking and increasing the time to playtest across factions? 40K doesn't need any more factions and if you want to field some obscure Xenos race that doesn't even have a significant presence in the Lore, just use Tau, Tyranid, or Necron rules and proxy models.

Reduce the Imperium and Chaos to a single, albeit large, faction each and expend on new xenos and you have solved your problem of bloat and made the galaxy a lot less empty.

No, because those units still exist even in one codex, only now you have to balance even more factions. We don't need any new factions. They add nothing to the story, they add nothing to game, and can be more or less represented by extant armies. Their inclusion does nothing but throw a wrench into everything from BS'ing them into somehow being a major player at all (which has already been poorly received with the Tau over the years) and shoving a whole new faction into the game. We don't need a constant, rampant of production of new toys simply because a minority are bored with the current ones. At most what could be added is more beastmen options - anything else is galactic non-factors with a fainter footprint than the Tau. It's also hard to give a new faction any kind of faction theme that isn't already covered by the plethora of current factions.

I agree, all the different marines + custodes should be rolled into one book to remove all of the bloat.

The bloat extends to any faction with multiple books. Likewise no new factions should be added (or units for that matter) because every single bloody thing you add to the came increases the data points which have to be balanced against each other - something GW already fails to do as they plainly don't even care about balancing a game. Anything added on top of what is already a crippled and decaying system void of any competent design will cause it to just come crumbling down from the bloat of a whole new fully fledged faction with all of the balancing needs that entails along with soup concerns. The only focus of GW should be trimming unit, wargear, and codices down so they have something that can actually be managed. Along with getting rid of sub-faction traits considering those have done nothing but thrown a further wrench into the system. You don't help 40K by throwing even more gak into the kitchen sink which is already putrescent and smelling of mold.

 Dysartes wrote:

Slipspace wrote:
Adding armies because they'd be cool is not a good reason to add to the bloat.

It's not a good reason? It's the best reason to add anything.

It's also subjective, though.

e.g. a lot of people think Primaris and Custodes are cool. I just see 'Slightly Bigger Marines' and 'Slightly Bigger Roman Marines'.Suffice to say, neither feels particularly cool or exciting to me.

You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
You know, with the subfaction traits system they could probably just merge all of the Chapters in the same book and let the subfaction traits be the same as chapter traits.

The unique units available to each chapter could just use the keyword system.

I don't want to have to spend money on BA, DA and Codex rules when I only play Space Wolves.

So? I don't use Sautekh units, but Imotekh is still in my codex.
I have no intention of using Goffs, but Thraka, the goff relic and the goff trait is still there. Everyone else has to pay for rules they don't use, I don't see why marines should be any different.