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Exactly my thoughts.

 OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:
but that sort of pirating is a hassle so is done by far fewer folk which means fewer floating about online.

There's literally 4 easy to find databases that will have every single 40k book on it within a week. If 40k was an obscure niche tabletop game, print products might hamper piracy, but most smaller war games don't make the mistake of charging something like a thousand dollars just to have all the available rules and know that any barrier to entry cuts into their market share. Gw has the luxury of being a silly bugger in this regard because it is the biggest game in town, but since it is the biggest game in town, this silly buggery doesn't actually matter.

Indeed I refuse to carry around more than three books and if they don't give me the option to purchase it online, then I will find an electronic copy somewhere.

This topic is about the upcoming January White Dwarf, not piracy, going digital or not and so on. Stay on topic please.

How long before release do leaks typically start showing up for White Dwarf? A week?

The new white dwarf looks heftier in terms of content but unfortunately none of the content is of interest to me so I'll not be purchasing.

Do we know if the Index Astartes thing is going to be for matched play? If so I find it irritating that yet again SM get even more focus from a rules perspective. It would be nice if other factions had the same treatment. It's compounded even more when there are still factions without a codex. Its great for all those Crimson Fist players but I don't think it's good for the game (assuming it is matched play rules). There is already a measure of bloat for Imperial soup lists. This is just adding to it.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The new white dwarf looks heftier in terms of content but unfortunately none of the content is of interest to me so I'll not be purchasing.

Do we know if the Index Astartes thing is going to be for matched play? If so I find it irritating that yet again SM get even more focus from a rules perspective. It would be nice if other factions had the same treatment. It's compounded even more when there are still factions without a codex. Its great for all those Crimson Fist players but I don't think it's good for the game (assuming it is matched play rules). There is already a measure of bloat for Imperial soup lists. This is just adding to it.

I can't see why it wouldn't be. It is Stratagems, Relics, Warlord Traits, and Chapter Tactics. Since when has it been questionable if any of those things are matched play legal?

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The new white dwarf looks heftier in terms of content but unfortunately none of the content is of interest to me so I'll not be purchasing.

Do we know if the Index Astartes thing is going to be for matched play? If so I find it irritating that yet again SM get even more focus from a rules perspective. It would be nice if other factions had the same treatment. It's compounded even more when there are still factions without a codex. Its great for all those Crimson Fist players but I don't think it's good for the game (assuming it is matched play rules). There is already a measure of bloat for Imperial soup lists. This is just adding to it.

I can't see why it wouldn't be. It is Stratagems, Relics, Warlord Traits, and Chapter Tactics. Since when has it been questionable if any of those things are matched play legal?

Since they started putting a big stamp on things that used to exist in the game as open play only like looted vehicles?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The new white dwarf looks heftier in terms of content but unfortunately none of the content is of interest to me so I'll not be purchasing.

Do we know if the Index Astartes thing is going to be for matched play? If so I find it irritating that yet again SM get even more focus from a rules perspective. It would be nice if other factions had the same treatment. It's compounded even more when there are still factions without a codex. Its great for all those Crimson Fist players but I don't think it's good for the game (assuming it is matched play rules). There is already a measure of bloat for Imperial soup lists. This is just adding to it.

Sadly given the title it was always going to be yet more Marines - the fact that they are doing Crimson Fists first gives some brief and likely to be dashed hopes that it won't just be more crap for the Dark and Blood Angels, Wulfs and Ultras.

Its too much hope that they will do a different faction (Imperial and Xenos) every month.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The new white dwarf looks heftier in terms of content but unfortunately none of the content is of interest to me so I'll not be purchasing.

Do we know if the Index Astartes thing is going to be for matched play? If so I find it irritating that yet again SM get even more focus from a rules perspective. It would be nice if other factions had the same treatment. It's compounded even more when there are still factions without a codex. Its great for all those Crimson Fist players but I don't think it's good for the game (assuming it is matched play rules). There is already a measure of bloat for Imperial soup lists. This is just adding to it.

I can't see why it wouldn't be. It is Stratagems, Relics, Warlord Traits, and Chapter Tactics. Since when has it been questionable if any of those things are matched play legal?

Alas you are likely correct and imperial soup just gets buffed and buffed

People were using Codex: Space Marines in Imperial Soup now?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
The new white dwarf looks heftier in terms of content but unfortunately none of the content is of interest to me so I'll not be purchasing.

Do we know if the Index Astartes thing is going to be for matched play? If so I find it irritating that yet again SM get even more focus from a rules perspective. It would be nice if other factions had the same treatment. It's compounded even more when there are still factions without a codex. Its great for all those Crimson Fist players but I don't think it's good for the game (assuming it is matched play rules). There is already a measure of bloat for Imperial soup lists. This is just adding to it.

Sadly given the title it was always going to be yet more Marines - the fact that they are doing Crimson Fists first gives some brief and likely to be dashed hopes that it won't just be more crap for the Dark and Blood Angels, Wulfs and Ultras.

Its too much hope that they will do a different faction (Imperial and Xenos) every month.

When you look at the Primaris releases we've had lieutenants and characters, we had the basic 5 or 6 units, and then we've had several chapter specific reboxes of those units with a chapter specific accessory sprue. I don't expect GW to do a stupid number of other chapters, I suspect these chapter specific reboxed kits are an easy way for them to sustain the volume of Space Marine releases they've had previous years, to satisfy investors, while being low effort products that let them put more resources elsewhere.

When they did Deathwatch they did a boat load of chapter specific shoulder pads as part of that kit. In the last couple years they've shown a greater willingness to reuse digital assets. Doing the sort of release that Imperial Fists got is relatively easy. These chapter specific accessory sprues are as simple as taking the digital model of the chapter specific shoulder pad from the Deathwatch kit, putting multiple on a new a sprue. Then reworking one head, one torso, and one weapon from another kit to be just different enough. Maybe throw in a vehicle sized icon. Having a second set of rules that happens to be able to use the same box set only helps to drive sales.

While I'd prefer fewer SM releases, I think these are the sort I can get behind. Here's hoping the Iron Hands, Ravenguard, White Scars, and Salamanders get a chance. I know there are plenty of Ravenguard successors that use their icon... anyone know about the others? Might be cool if they all got 2-for-1 releases.

Whoa, TIL people apparently use codex marines in Imperial Soup.

As a Marine player and one who's even been tempted a few times to start CF, I think it's not the nicest to people still waiting on their codex for Crimson Fists rules to drop first, but it does make a ton of sense to test the waters with Marines: GW has by far the most experience reskinning/modding Marines and there's a large Marine player base (for these purposes, tournaments are moot IMHO since they've never been GW's primary audience).

Now, I get that CF are a classic, but I do think that it's kinda lame to pick a chapter that already has decent representation in the codex. (Then again, that might be sour grapes, since I think that FW's work with chapters has often been more interesting and feel we're less likely to see them ever get updated (past the perennial favorite Scorpions).)

Crimson Fists rules:

New Chapter Tactics: +1 to hit against units with twice the models of your attacking unit. Dreadnoughts count as 5 models.

Warlord Traits:
Tenacious Opponent: Same as Codex
Refuse to Die: Get back up on a 4+ with d3 wounds the first time you die
Stoic Defender: All Infantry, Bikers and Dreadnoughts gain Defenders of Humanity If they are within 6" of the Warlord. If they already had it, they count as 2 models per 1 model.

Stratagems:
Bolter Drill: Same as Codex. Goes well with their new Chapter Tactic.
A Hated Foe: Target Unit rerolls all wounds against Ork units.
Slay the Tyrant: Target Unit adds +1 to hit against Characters

Relics:
Fist of Vengeance: Same as Codex
Duty's Burden: Replaces Bolt Rifle 36", RF 2, Str 5, AP-2, D2

Kindly do not attach these files to our servers - BrookM

Edit Edit: Sorry!

I think the tactic actually only works against units that have twice as many models than your unit. And your dreadnoughts count as five models for the purposes of this rule. So it rarely does anything. These rules are not great...

Nice to see a relic that Primaris models can actually take, too bad it is tied to rest of these rules.

 Crimson wrote:
I think the tactic actually only works against units that have twice as many models than your unit. And your dreadnoughts count as five models for the purposes of this rule. So it rarely does anything. These rules are not great...

Nice to see a relic that Primaris models can actually take, too bad it is tied to rest of these rules.

Yeah, that's what I meant. It is going to make an MSU army even more focused on MSU. Aggressors using Bolter Drill are going to be crazy.

But yeah, the rules aren't stellar. But you can continue to use the CF rules from the codex, which still gives the best Relic.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
But you can continue to use the CF rules from the codex

You can? Can you combine those with these? I mean could I use the codex tactic and still take the relic rifle?
(I don't even think that the relic rifle is any good, but it is the sort of fluffy excuse to model a fancy bolt rifle that I like.)

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
But you can continue to use the CF rules from the codex

You can? Can you combine those with these? I mean could I use the codex tactic and still take the relic rifle?
(I don't even think that the relic rifle is any good, but it is the sort of fluffy excuse to model a fancy bolt rifle that I like.)

No. The article explicitly says one or the other. So if you use the article, you have to use the anti-horde chapter tactic. So you can choose which tactic to use based on your opponent. And the article has the codex WL trait, Bolter Drill, and the Fist of Vengeance, so you don't lose anything.

OK, thanks. A shame, but understandable.

 Crimson wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
But you can continue to use the CF rules from the codex

You can? Can you combine those with these? I mean could I use the codex tactic and still take the relic rifle?
(I don't even think that the relic rifle is any good, but it is the sort of fluffy excuse to model a fancy bolt rifle that I like.)

The rules on the page seem to say yes, thats fine -they say you can take relics from here and the Codex.

They even reprint the Fist of Vengeance just

for convenience

and confirm its the same relic.

Conflicting information!

 Crimson wrote:
Conflicting information!

The article explicitly says you can use the Codex Space Marines rules or the rules from the article. That would include everything, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics, and Chapter Tactics.

Few questions - just to clarify, that tactic applies if the target unit is TWICE the size of the current one, not just if it has more models, right?

Still applies to just Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts?


If so, sounds like a lot of mobile dreadnoughts that can move without the penalty (as long as they fire at a target with at least 2 models).

The new bolt rifle is weird since the only character I can think of that can carry one is the Primaris Ancient...everyone else has mastercrafted auto or stalker, right?

Lemondish wrote:
Few questions - just to clarify, that tactic applies if the target unit is TWICE the size of the current one, not just if it has more models, right?

Still applies to just Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts?


If so, sounds like a lot of mobile dreadnoughts that can move without the penalty (as long as they fire at a target with at least 2 models).

The new bolt rifle is weird since the only character I can think of that can carry one is the Primaris Ancient...everyone else has mastercrafted auto or stalker, right?

My initial post was incorrect. It is twice the models, not just more models. Dreadnoughts count as 5 models for this rule. But characters are nuts with it. The bolt rifle can replace stalker, auto, and Master-Crafted variations of Bolt Rifles.

Why you would use that relic and not a Levi dread i'll never know.

So are chapter tactics now for everyone?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Why you would use that relic and not a Levi dread i'll never know.

So are chapter tactics now for everyone?

No, they are for Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts still. It is dumb.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Why you would use that relic and not a Levi dread i'll never know.

That's...not how any of this works.

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Why you would use that relic and not a Levi dread i'll never know.

So are chapter tactics now for everyone?

No, they are for Infantry, Bikers, and Dreadnoughts still. It is dumb.

There goes my predator tanks and razorbacks :/

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Conflicting information!

The article explicitly says you can use the Codex Space Marines rules or the rules from the article. That would include everything, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics, and Chapter Tactics.

It also says your army can have:

you army can have more than one of the Chapter Relics (from Codex: Space Marines and/or from here)

Plus re strats

you have access to the Stragems below in addition to those in Codex: Space Marines

So you can mix and match?

 Mr Morden wrote:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Conflicting information!

The article explicitly says you can use the Codex Space Marines rules or the rules from the article. That would include everything, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics, and Chapter Tactics.

It also says your army can have:

you army can have more than one of the Chapter Relics (from Codex: Space Marines and/or from here)

Plus re strats

you have access to the Stragems below in addition to those in Codex: Space Marines

So you can mix and match?

That is only affording you the ability to take things like the Shield Eternal or Teeth of Terra. Or the ability to use Linebreaker Bombardment.