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++ Supreme Command Detachment +1CP (Chaos - Thousand Sons) [40 PL, 677pts] ++

+ HQ +

Ahriman [7 PL, 131pts]

Daemon Prince of Tzeentch [9 PL, 180pts]: Hellforged sword, Wings

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 122pts]: Familiar, Force sword, Inferno Combi-bolter

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 122pts]: Familiar, Force sword, Inferno Combi-bolter

Sorcerer in Terminator Armour [8 PL, 122pts]: 6. High Magister, Familiar, Force sword, Helm of the Third Eye, Inferno Combi-bolter, Warlord

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [38 PL, 749pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Nurgle

+ HQ +

Poxbringer [4 PL, 70pts]

Sloppity Bilepiper [3 PL, 60pts]

Spoilpox Scrivener [4 PL, 95pts]

+ Troops +

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 235pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 29x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

Plaguebearers [12 PL, 235pts]: Daemonic Icon, Instrument of Chaos, 29x Plaguebearer, Plagueridden

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Chaos - Daemons) [31 PL, 573pts] ++

+ No Force Org Slot +

Chaos Allegiance: Chaos Undivided

Rewards of Chaos (1 Relic)

+ HQ +

Changecaster [4 PL, 65pts]: Flickering Flames

Daemon Prince of Chaos [9 PL, 180pts]: Horn of Nurgle's Rot, Malefic talon, Nurgle, Wings

+ Troops +

Horrors [12 PL, 220pts]: Instrument of Chaos, 30x Pink Horror

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

Nurglings [3 PL, 54pts]: 3x Nurgling Swarms

++ Total: [109 PL, 1999pts] ++

List Perks
24" psychic powers that can snipe characters with mortal wounds
5+ 24" constant smite that doesn't go up
Up to -2 to hit on one plaguebearer unit
Plaugebearers roll two dice for morale picking the lowest and on a 1 they get d6 guys back
14CP


Was wondering what the best approach is to beat this list?

My only two really thoughts are bringing sniping quality to take out the sorcerers from behind the huge screen and focusing on killing the horrors because morale will annihilate them. If he does pop the 3++ on them then you can focus fire on a unit of plaguebearers that only has -1 to hit, there will always be at least one. Until you get to the gooey inside of characters you should hide your characters out of line of sight for two or even three turns because they can't be targeted if they can't be seen. Anything that causes negs to psychic tests is always good like a Culexus. Finally sitting back and shooting or keep your distance and spreading your army out means the plaguebearer units are stretched and can often find themselves outside of the range of the 4 different character buffs. The longer they stay out of combat the easier they are to kill.

If you anyone has any other ideas that would be great!

Thanks

Smite targets the closest enemy unit; so they can't snipe out characters. This list revolves around a wall of plaguebearers hiding some psychers... really the only "scary" thing are two demon princes; armies like Orks would have a field day with this.

It really depends on what you are fielding, but I would target the PB's with whatever you can first (assuming the horrors will deep strike) and target ONE UNIT at a time. If your playing ITC, use the nurglings as quick kills to score early points. He will have to spread out quite a bit to hide his characters, but the characters are slow and will be advancing to stay behind the shield; he cannot charge the demon princes from behind the shield, so bait them out and kill them quickly.

What army are you fielding? Are ya'll playing book missions, ITC, or another format?

The problem with the termie sorcerers is the are slow once the land better to use Ahriman and disc guys or princes. The movement of 12” + d6” plus 24” smite or dark gaze or whatever is huge. Being able to move quickly to counter other threats is great. I usually only use one terminator sorcerer as a backfield assassin.

Nah forget smite guys I'm talking 5 24" chaos powers that can target characters and mortal wound them. With all the +1 +2 +3 +4 to casts that Tsons get your characters are toast. I like the idea of drawing out the princes when you can. I play almost every army, was just looking for general tips and I can work out how to implement those tips depending on what army I'm playing. This list has won back to back tournies in my area playing ITC

They only have a couple powers that can target out characters, you cant cast the same spell more than once and the highest they can get is +4 to cast on a single spell, while the rest will be +1 to cast

So from discipline of change have tzeentchs firestorm and doombolt. Firestorm ia extremely unreliable needing 6s and averages 2 wounds, doombolt is just smite but cannot go to d6. Dark hereticus discipline has Infernal gaze you roll 3d6 and need a 4+, so average 1.5 wounds.

For the demon prince he can use discipline of tzeentch, he can take bolt of change which is another smite. Infernal gateway can hit characters, but you have to be clustered up and close to the psyker.

Many of these are warp charge 7, a few are wc 9. Meaning he can reliably get off inly a few, and without hot dice, he will have to cast multiple powers on a character to kill it.

Knights would do extremely well against this list i feel, other than a few mortal wounds, he has no way to reliably kill a 24 wound unit in a single turn with good positioning. Hell, culexus assassins would wreck havoc on this list, as would the new slaneesh enchantress. You could run scout snipers/eldar rangers and pick off his key characters because tzeentch has no protection against mws themselves.

You use one CP to give arihman bolt of change so it goes off more often than not.

Knights hit the plaguebearers on 5s and then I have a 4++ 5+++ against those shots. in combat plaguebearers wreck knights. With the strat, psychic power and loci wound rolls of 6 do 5 damage, rolls of 5 do 3 and rolls of 4 do 2 damage rerolling all failed wounds. Then when the knight is close it cops heaps of smite and dies. As for a culexus the plagebearers hit it on 5s, with prescience you can hit it on 5s which explode with DTTFE with the tzeentch daemon prince. The horrors hit on 6s but with 90 shots you're bound to kill it with one volley. So there are counters to everything you listed. I'm finding orks are the hardest for this list because the looters are OP and hard to get to because of all the bodies in the way

Yeah this is a list to make mincemeat of knights. It is as others have said. 160 boys or 120 genestealers that would ruin your day.

It may struggle against super mobile armies such as Dukari and lots of shining spears as they would be able to play for points well. But all in all it's a strong list.

I like the list I just like the more mobile exalted sorcerers that is all


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also horrors can not get the 3+ save anymore. The strategem can not take the save below 4+

 swanson4969 wrote:
I like the list I just like the more mobile exalted sorcerers that is all


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also horrors can not get the 3+ save anymore. The strategem can not take the save below 4+

Epipherial form gives Tzeentch horrors a +1 to the roll. So they effectively still get a 3++ despite their save technically still 4++

Horrors have the rule "Ephemeral Daemons" stating they have a 4+, therefore can no longer benefit from surge.

 AllDeadDave wrote:
Horrors have the rule "Ephemeral Daemons" stating they have a 4+, therefore can no longer benefit from surge.

Somehow missed that, played horrors with Epipherial Form like the rest if Tzeentch daemons. Played horrors for 2 years with friends and at tournements. Not been pulled up on it. Oh bollocks

I think it only became an issue with the last FAQ (and the Surge change). Before that it was completely legal.

Horrors are a joke now with the 4++ and no better, guess you have to just suck it up and use them offensively. Not sure if I drop the horrors now and go for 90 plaguebearers or do something sneaky with slaanesh and their points drops.

I had 1 unit of plaugebearers locking some gretchin in combat which I chose not to attack in my turn. All my characters were on one side and he had 25 looters on the otherside. He literally couldn't shoot the characters because the bearers were in combat and everything else was a character. I did it again against two super heavies and you just kill a weak unit in your opponent's turn and wrap something else in your turn. You never cop overwatch from a strong shooting unit and your characters can never be targeted

ravenerioli wrote:
Horrors are a joke now with the 4++ and no better, guess you have to just suck it up and use them offensively.

I wouldnt call a 7 pt. model with a 4+ inv a joke. You can still make them hard to kill with a changeling, daemonic icon, and warp tether warlord trait. A 1 on morale check will give you D6 additional horrors. And with warp tether you can re-roll failed morale checks, giving you another chance to roll a 1.

ravenerioli wrote:

I had 1 unit of plaugebearers locking some gretchin in combat which I chose not to attack in my turn.

You cant do that. Any model that can attack must do so.

Designers commentary
Q: If any of your units are eligible to fight
in the Fight phase, can you choose for
them not to fight this turn?....
A: All eligible units must fight in the Fight
phase; they cannot ‘pass’ and wait for
another phase.....

I played with horrors the other day they still have a decent punch. I play 2 units of 20 with a fateskimmer. Put them in deepstrike and run the new cheaper fateskimmer up the board and clear any screen with the horrors, smite and assault the good stuff with the rest of the army. (Generally thpusand sons DP and bloodletters).

As for locking stuff in combat you have to be crafty. Only get one or two plaguebearer in combat and then pin them with the pile in on 3 sides. Can work the way you described if you have less attacks than there are gretchins etc.

 p5freak wrote:

ravenerioli wrote:
Horrors are a joke now with the 4++ and no better, guess you have to just suck it up and use them offensively.

I wouldnt call a 7 pt. model with a 4+ inv a joke. You can still make them hard to kill with a changeling, daemonic icon, and warp tether warlord trait. A 1 on morale check will give you D6 additional horrors. And with warp tether you can re-roll failed morale checks, giving you another chance to roll a 1.

ravenerioli wrote:

I had 1 unit of plaugebearers locking some gretchin in combat which I chose not to attack in my turn.

You cant do that. Any model that can attack must do so.

Designers commentary
Q: If any of your units are eligible to fight
in the Fight phase, can you choose for
them not to fight this turn?....
A: All eligible units must fight in the Fight
phase; they cannot ‘pass’ and wait for
another phase.....

I mean I went out of my way to only have one plaguebearer attacking, every single other model was more than 1" away from them, so I only killed one gretchin so he couldn't fail a morale check and get out of being trapped.

Ahh that makes more sense. I always like to take at least one 'hostage' if I can. I generally play with lots of plaguebearers a bloodletter bomb and a load of daemon princes so it can mean that people have nothing to shoot at as they can't fall back. Really annoys a mate of mine that plays tau.