Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is chapter approved 2018 making people think twice about dreadnoughts?

Ive alwasy been a fan of the chaplain dreads and might want to give them a try....probably with twin lascannon.

Thoughts? What might you want to try?

ender502

Yeah dreadnoughts got some solid help in CA. Redemptor dreadnoughts were big winners dropping a whole bunch and I hope to use some for my primaris force and not feel AS bad about bringing them. Venerable rifle dreads getting a cut also helps them a bit. Mortis contemptor quad las dreads are like 168 for a fairly good lascannon output that can be enhanced by chapter tactics and a plethora of buffing characters.

And what loadout option you could recommend for them now?

I haven't run any numbers but I'm thinking any dread (with the CA love) really needs to have the 5+ invul.

I know they're not optimized but I live the chaplain dread. Sweet model.

The chaos dreads are wayyyy better... I went and bought three used contemptors for some conversions; I imagine the Loyalist ones look much more appealing now as well.

 ender502 wrote:
I haven't run any numbers but I'm thinking any dread (with the CA love) really needs to have the 5+ invul.

I know they're not optimized but I live the chaplain dread. Sweet model.

Contemptor Dread is the one that have 5++. That is the "only good" Dread outside of Leviathan Dreadnought

Unfortunately most of the competative unit choices in the marine codex are actually still index choices, the Imperial Armour index.

Plenty of good dreadnaughts in there, the obvious Leviathans, Deredeo, Relic Contemptor, Contemptor Mortis, chaplin dreadnaught aswell as some less epic choices.

 Zid wrote:
The chaos dreads are wayyyy better... I went and bought three used contemptors for some conversions; I imagine the Loyalist ones look much more appealing now as well.

The chaos ones are leagues better it seems, ability to regain wounds, 4++ in combat but only a 3+ armour save, better psychic buffs for them too, renegade contemptors with soulburners are fun too, advance blast and then assault, gun times

until the walking wall of adamantium that is the Ironclad gets a saving throw that is partially better than your average tac-marine I will never fail to be disappointed in dreads on average.

I love my contemptor mortis quad las platform, but I really want to get the 'big brick' back on the table and able to do something.

I used Dreadnought even before CA, and as long as I have another threat that take AT fire, they're solid.
DA chapter traits helps, but cover and redundancy helps more.

Only small disappointment: removal of the cyclone for the standard Dreadnought.

I find myself comfortable with a Mortis 4x laser, a Mortis 4x missiles (now illegal) and a Contemptor with the special AC and cyclone.

After CA, 2x Dreadnought (standard or venerable) with Missile and Laser are good, and a Contemptor with AC and cyclone.
I'veused the Chaplain a lot in the beginning of 8th, but honestly right now it feels a little useless because you cannot kit him for durability (before he may have a 3+/5++/6+++/6(5)+++ and eventually a techmarine buddy... he survived to a turn of Mortarion)

Finally, a Mortis with heavy requiem is cheap and usually is a low priority, and make tremendous utility during the end of the game to clear the troops still alive.
I've also had good experience with the (supposedly horrible) Mortis with dual multi-melta. It's a good threat for enemies that run towards you, when you have a gunline of Marine.

I've never tried the plasma cannon, however, because I haven't the appropriate arms. Don't know why, but I've never been able instead to get enough mileage out of the rifleman dread... in 48", you've got stuff that hits harder.

Redemptors are now approaching good. With support they are a horror in CC, and that combined with their only good loadout (Gatlings and Stormbolters) make them a good duo-threat unit that your opponent can't ignore. They are only viable, however, if you bring a few heavies to the table - they flourish in the shadow of bigger threats, and are bullies when the table starts to thin. Without that, they will be wiped up in no time, as they suffer from acute allergic reaction to lascannons.

basic venerable dreadnoughts seem pretty solid to me. Lack of an invuln save means if my opponent hits me with ap-3 and I wasn't standing in cover I lose one die shift of durability. Meh. and if I really hate it, I can just bring one of the marine characters that does give those kind of buffs.

Quadlas contemptor is really nice, and for me the biggest selling point is that he's pretty easy to convert from a plastic contemptor and I don't have to give Forgeworld the time of day (or 120$ or whatever absurd price theyre charging for a hunk of misaligned flash-covered resin trash these days).

Chaos Contemptors being "going to get bumped up to 600 points next time GW takes Forgeworld's rules out behind the woodshed" level doesn't stop loyalist dreads from being quite nice shooting platforms.

I just wish they had some sort of reason to be taken as the classic shooting-melee hybrid unit that they're supposed to be. Right now trying to do anything with melee reduces their effectiveness by painful amounts.

My only issue with quadlaser contemptor is that it is too much of a bullet magnet, and cost too much with too low durability to play in that role (we're almost in the ballpark of a Gallant Knight)

But, if you have it with a Knight, a superheavy or anything scarier, it's definitely worth its point.

 Cybtroll wrote:
My only issue with quadlaser contemptor is that it is too much of a bullet magnet, and cost too much with too low durability to play in that role (we're almost in the ballpark of a Gallant Knight)

But, if you have it with a Knight, a superheavy or anything scarier, it's definitely worth its point.

168 points is not in the ballpark of a gallant knight? Unless you consider a grot to be in the ballpark of a dreadnought.

 Cybtroll wrote:
My only issue with quadlaser contemptor is that it is too much of a bullet magnet, and cost too much with too low durability to play in that role (we're almost in the ballpark of a Gallant Knight)

Raven Guard Contemptor Mortis weighs in at 168 points, with a 5++, a -1 to hit and a BS2+. That's highly competitive with the Helverin it shares the points bracket with, especially given how undercosted Helverins are.

I would love it if dreads could be the "tactical" style machine they are depicted as in all the fluff.

Also, and I want to hear people's experiences om this...multi double las dreads would seem to be a tempting target. If you put much of your AT eggs in that basket it seems you may get smacked hard. I'd think the only one you could drop a bunch of points/weapons into is the leviathan.

Thoughts?

ender502

I always though dreadnoughts as good all rounders and good counter charge units.

In the old days dreadnoughts needed anti tank weapons because of its vehicle status. When you are charged, you charge inn and kill them. If they are infantery they can not kill you. If they are anti tanks melee just shoot them.

This also plays into SM natural imperial ranged weapons. And the 3+ to hit.

Thos asumes a melee/ranged dread.

 ender502 wrote:
I would love it if dreads could be the "tactical" style machine they are depicted as in all the fluff.

Also, and I want to hear people's experiences om this...multi double las dreads would seem to be a tempting target. If you put much of your AT eggs in that basket it seems you may get smacked hard. I'd think the only one you could drop a bunch of points/weapons into is the leviathan.

Thoughts?

ender502

A las/ml vendread is only what, 145 points at this point? What cheaper platform could you be getting those weapons on? 5 Devs with the same guns is 130. The vendread has +1BS, T7, 3 more wounds, and the Venerable rule.

IMO, any Dread with 10+ wounds isn't as viable as ones with less than 10, based purely on having a damage chart.
Having full BS until your last wound is lost makes a big difference. A difference that 2-3 extra wounds cannot compare with.
I'll always like VenDreads with dual twin-autocannons.

 Galef wrote:
IMO, any Dread with 10+ wounds isn't as viable as ones with less than 10, based purely on having a damage chart.
Having full BS until your last wound is lost makes a big difference. A difference that 2-3 extra wounds cannot compare with.
I'll always like VenDreads with dual twin-autocannons.

I think that holds trye for 10 or 11 wound dreads. I'd choose the chaplain 9 wound dread over a 10 wound contemptor any day of the week. Once you get to 12 wounds or above on a dread I think the #'s start to bend that way.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 ender502 wrote:
I would love it if dreads could be the "tactical" style machine they are depicted as in all the fluff.

Also, and I want to hear people's experiences om this...multi double las dreads would seem to be a tempting target. If you put much of your AT eggs in that basket it seems you may get smacked hard. I'd think the only one you could drop a bunch of points/weapons into is the leviathan.

Thoughts?

ender502

A las/ml vendread is only what, 145 points at this point? What cheaper platform could you be getting those weapons on? 5 Devs with the same guns is 130. The vendread has +1BS, T7, 3 more wounds, and the Venerable rule.

good point.

 Galef wrote:
IMO, any Dread with 10+ wounds isn't as viable as ones with less than 10, based purely on having a damage chart.
Having full BS until your last wound is lost makes a big difference. A difference that 2-3 extra wounds cannot compare with.
I'll always like VenDreads with dual twin-autocannons.

A lot of Dreads that are on their last legs for their chart though aren't dead compared to other options though. A Contemptor with only one wound and shooting on a 4/5+ took more to kill than a, well, dead Dread.

I like the idea of cheap hellbrutes. Just me. Sure, with no invul save, they may die easily. But you can possibly hide them in cover to get a 2+ save. And if we keep it cheap, then its not a big loss.

A reaper cannon, missile launcher hellbrute is just 80 points. A plasma cannon, missile launcher hellbrute is just 86 points. The idea is to also have other heavy support stuff for shooting. So, opponent has to decide if he wants to target other more dangerous shooty stuff or use up his valuable anti tank shooting on cheap hellbrutes.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
I like the idea of cheap hellbrutes. Just me. Sure, with no invul save, they may die easily. But you can possibly hide them in cover to get a 2+ save. And if we keep it cheap, then its not a big loss.

A reaper cannon, missile launcher hellbrute is just 80 points. A plasma cannon, missile launcher hellbrute is just 86 points. The idea is to also have other heavy support stuff for shooting. So, opponent has to decide if he wants to target other more dangerous shooty stuff or use up his valuable anti tank shooting on cheap hellbrutes.

I don't think Reapers have D2 off the top of my head, so it might be better to go for the dangerous (though inconsistent) Plasma Cannon in that situation.

The good thing about plasma cannons is that if it actually triggers and causes a mortal wound on a hellbrute, it might trigger the hellbrute's crazed rule so that it fires again!

Space Wolf dreads just got cheaper and we have a 4+ invuln... they are making it into some of my lists now.

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Space Wolf dreads just got cheaper and we have a 4+ invuln... they are making it into some of my lists now.

A Wulfen Dread with its 8" move, 4++ and rerollable charges is pretty good for the price. The work especially well if you are also running character Dreads like Bjorn or Murderfang as they can take the lead and tank fire for them.

 Karhedron wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Space Wolf dreads just got cheaper and we have a 4+ invuln... they are making it into some of my lists now.

A Wulfen Dread with its 8" move, 4++ and rerollable charges is pretty good for the price. The work especially well if you are also running character Dreads like Bjorn or Murderfang as they can take the lead and tank fire for them.

It's true but the ven dread got a price reduction and now it's just 10ppm more expensive than the wulfen one while having several superior stats. Ven dreads are shared with all SM though, wulfen dreads will probably get their discount when GW will re-adjust points for typical SW stuff which wasn't considered in CA, only thing purely in common with SM got a new price.

 Blackie wrote:

 Karhedron wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Space Wolf dreads just got cheaper and we have a 4+ invuln... they are making it into some of my lists now.

A Wulfen Dread with its 8" move, 4++ and rerollable charges is pretty good for the price. The work especially well if you are also running character Dreads like Bjorn or Murderfang as they can take the lead and tank fire for them.

It's true but the ven dread got a price reduction and now it's just 10ppm more expensive than the wulfen one while having several superior stats. Ven dreads are shared with all SM though, wulfen dreads will probably get their discount when GW will re-adjust points for typical SW stuff which wasn't considered in CA, only thing purely in common with SM got a new price.

Yes, Axe and Shield Ven-Dread for SW is not bad now with the reduction. However, taking Vendread + Bjorn or Murderfang is a "all combat Dread" built, which would have trouble dealing with enemy that sit on high-rise ruins, or enemy spam flyers and fast moving shooty units such as DE.

 Karhedron wrote:

ArmchairArbiter wrote:
Space Wolf dreads just got cheaper and we have a 4+ invuln... they are making it into some of my lists now.

A Wulfen Dread with its 8" move, 4++ and rerollable charges is pretty good for the price. The work especially well if you are also running character Dreads like Bjorn or Murderfang as they can take the lead and tank fire for them.

I dunno about Murderfang as I didn't see the Space Wolf part of Chapter Approved. I'm still waiting for my copy in the mail because I was smart enough to order it after the holidays.

ANYWAY, if Wulfen Dreads did get cheaper I would absolutely consider them the most viable option for melee. With the Axe, your "kill the big thing" profile is still hitting normally the first round, and you have enough attacks to clear chaff with the other profile and bonus to hit.

Neophyte2012 wrote:


Yes, Axe and Shield Ven-Dread for SW is not bad now with the reduction. However, taking Vendread + Bjorn or Murderfang is a "all combat Dread" built, which would have trouble dealing with enemy that sit on high-rise ruins, or enemy spam flyers and fast moving shooty units such as DE.

Absolutely. In fact I've always played Bjorn or Murderfang or a Ven Dread or a Wulfen Dread so far, so just one walker in a single 2000 points list, I never tried more than a single dread at the same time yet.