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Sweet, do you know if you can run a sporocyst and the drill in the same fortification detachment?

Drdotts wrote:
Sweet, do you know if you can run a sporocyst and the drill in the same fortification detachment?

Does the Drill have the tyranid KW?

Timeshadow wrote:

Drdotts wrote:
Sweet, do you know if you can run a sporocyst and the drill in the same fortification detachment?

Does the Drill have the tyranid KW?

Unfortunately it only has the Genestealer Cults keyword

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:

Also the sprue doesn't "Include multiple autoguns", it includes two, simply by virtue of there being TWO identical sprues.

I would wait until the box is actually out before saying this--we've had sprues missing from quite a few webstore breakdowns before.

So there are two different sprues in the Jackals box, and you can make all four bikes and the wolfquad with them. There aren't any identical sprues — it says there's only 89 components in the box, and that matches what they've shown us on the webstore.

But yeah, there's only a single autogun in the kit (along with only one power axe/bolt pistol), which lines up with the idea that only the Jackal leader can take those items.

-edit/clarifications

I don't think the lascannon ridge runner is terrible, either with spotter or flare. Not a tournament piece but if you run mechanized cult I think it's not so bad.

The mortar just puts out awful firepower. Would you take a chimera for 20pts less with no transport 3 fewer wounds -2T and 4+? Hml at least gives it some teeth.

If you want it cheap at least go ML.

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't think the lascannon ridge runner is terrible, either with spotter or flare. Not a tournament piece but if you run mechanized cult I think it's not so bad.

The mortar just puts out awful firepower. Would you take a chimera for 20pts less with no transport 3 fewer wounds -2T and 4+? Hml at least gives it some teeth.

If you want it cheap at least go ML.

Not disagreeing with you on the mortar at all, it's a strange weapon for it to have access too, and just doesn't fit. Luckily the HML is solid and the ML doesn't seem to bad either if you want to go cheaper.

However I'll say it again, this army greatly benefits from scouting units to occupy the table early if you aren't using the rhino rush strategy, or leaning on hive fleet kraken stealer shock. Even then I would consider taking 1 or 2. Scout sentinels generally were the go to and since the CA point decrease nobody has had any bad things to say about them in the guard thread. Again I feel it's worth repeating that a scout sentinel with LC is 55 points, it has 6 t5 wounds with a 4+ save and moves 9" wit ha 9" scout move. The ridge runner averages double the las canon shots + has 2 heavy stubbers with 8 t5 4+ wounds and a 6+++ and moves 14" for 84 points, and also scouts 9", it also can slingshot jackals up the table for a turn 1 assault. If you don't require the HML it pretty much has a guaranteed turn 1 charge. Would they kill anything in assaulting in such a manner? No way, but two of these hitting first turn with their bases turned on the side have a long footprint which would allow you to pin your opponents screen in their deployment. That is a very big deal, I used this trick with sentinels a couple times, issue being they move 5" slower and have a smaller footprint so it wasn't consistent, this remedies that. BTW sentinels are also very good for this still, I think they are pretty much equal.

I don't want anyone to think I am saying they need these things. But to declare them totally none viable is a bit extreme. I plan on running 1 or 2 (depending on my final list) in conjunction with said sentinels, only I will run the sentinels with heavy flamers. I feel like a larger unit of jackals sling shotting up with these units will make a good early game disruption force. You need to remember, we need at least half our stuff on the table, I want that stuff to be very fast. Its a death trap needing to highland charge half your stuff up the board first turn with zero possibility of getting in your opponents face.

I am all ears to any other ideas for occupying table space in the same/similar manner first turn without leaning on the guard book, at least initially. If I can make the GSC work I'd like to stay there, epsecially given the CP nerf to guard battalions.

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't think the lascannon ridge runner is terrible, either with spotter or flare. Not a tournament piece but if you run mechanized cult I think it's not so bad.

The mortar just puts out awful firepower. Would you take a chimera for 20pts less with no transport 3 fewer wounds -2T and 4+? Hml at least gives it some teeth.

If you want it cheap at least go ML.

Not disagreeing with you on the mortar at all, it's a strange weapon for it to have access too, and just doesn't fit. Luckily the HML is solid and the ML doesn't seem to bad either if you want to go cheaper.

However I'll say it again, this army greatly benefits from scouting units to occupy the table early if you aren't using the rhino rush strategy, or leaning on hive fleet kraken stealer shock. Even then I would consider taking 1 or 2. Scout sentinels generally were the go to and since the CA point decrease nobody has had any bad things to say about them in the guard thread. Again I feel it's worth repeating that a scout sentinel with LC is 55 points, it has 6 t5 wounds with a 4+ save and moves 9" wit ha 9" scout move. The ridge runner averages double the las canon shots + has 2 heavy stubbers with 8 t5 4+ wounds and a 6+++ and moves 14" for 84 points, and also scouts 9", it also can slingshot jackals up the table for a turn 1 assault. If you don't require the HML it pretty much has a guaranteed turn 1 charge. Would they kill anything in assaulting in such a manner? No way, but two of these hitting first turn with their bases turned on the side have a long footprint which would allow you to pin your opponents screen in their deployment. That is a very big deal, I used this trick with sentinels a couple times, issue being they move 5" slower and have a smaller footprint so it wasn't consistent, this remedies that. BTW sentinels are also very good for this still, I think they are pretty much equal.

I don't want anyone to think I am saying they need these things. But to declare them totally none viable is a bit extreme. I plan on running 1 or 2 (depending on my final list) in conjunction with said sentinels, only I will run the sentinels with heavy flamers. I feel like a larger unit of jackals sling shotting up with these units will make a good early game disruption force. You need to remember, we need at least half our stuff on the table, I want that stuff to be very fast. Its a death trap needing to highland charge half your stuff up the board first turn with zero possibility of getting in your opponents face.

I am all ears to any other ideas for occupying table space in the same/similar manner first turn without leaning on the guard book, at least initially. If I can make the GSC work I'd like to stay there, epsecially given the CP nerf to guard battalions.

Oh if you're considering lascannon sentinels then yeah 100% take the ridgerunner instead. I was considering multilaser sentinels for my screening purposes, because if they fulfil their intended role (stopping something like a Da Jump/genestealer rush from impacting my lines turn 1) then they just die, and I want them as cheap as they can go. Plus they fill brigade slots.

Honestly just the ability to take 3 scout sentinels and 3 mortar HWT might ironically be the biggest buff this army got for competitive play, lol. Aberrant wombo-combos are great but we could ace knights with just annointed throng before.

Armored Sentinels w/ Autocannons also come in at the same price as 4 Bikes, which makes them a worthy consideration.

I'm still on board the "definitely not ridgerunners" train, because I don't see their benefit as being as tangible as we've described, compared to just doing other things, but time will tell.

I am going to write up a review after LVO. I decided to wait so I don't confuse rules for LVO as that might happen. So much more information there.

That said, I have mixed feeling about the book so far. Want to go line by line, they also will need to FAQ a lot of things and how they work.

Big items that need more clarification

- Brood Brother and mechanics with orders/regiments
- Patriarch does he have unquestioning loyalty or not?
- Weapon options for the Jackal
- How do the stratagems work before ambush markers and such
- How does scout work with the ambush markers?

Pariarch doesn't need unquestioning loyalty as the troops around him will have it, no?

Jackals weapon options make sense, just can't take the weapons the rules on the model indicated.

Scout with ambush is hilarious, and I have no idea.

I'm curious to see your overall opinion post LVO, my friend. Genuinely so.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I don't think the lascannon ridge runner is terrible, either with spotter or flare. Not a tournament piece but if you run mechanized cult I think it's not so bad.

The mortar just puts out awful firepower. Would you take a chimera for 20pts less with no transport 3 fewer wounds -2T and 4+? Hml at least gives it some teeth.

If you want it cheap at least go ML.

Not disagreeing with you on the mortar at all, it's a strange weapon for it to have access too, and just doesn't fit. Luckily the HML is solid and the ML doesn't seem to bad either if you want to go cheaper.

However I'll say it again, this army greatly benefits from scouting units to occupy the table early if you aren't using the rhino rush strategy, or leaning on hive fleet kraken stealer shock. Even then I would consider taking 1 or 2. Scout sentinels generally were the go to and since the CA point decrease nobody has had any bad things to say about them in the guard thread. Again I feel it's worth repeating that a scout sentinel with LC is 55 points, it has 6 t5 wounds with a 4+ save and moves 9" wit ha 9" scout move. The ridge runner averages double the las canon shots + has 2 heavy stubbers with 8 t5 4+ wounds and a 6+++ and moves 14" for 84 points, and also scouts 9", it also can slingshot jackals up the table for a turn 1 assault. If you don't require the HML it pretty much has a guaranteed turn 1 charge. Would they kill anything in assaulting in such a manner? No way, but two of these hitting first turn with their bases turned on the side have a long footprint which would allow you to pin your opponents screen in their deployment. That is a very big deal, I used this trick with sentinels a couple times, issue being they move 5" slower and have a smaller footprint so it wasn't consistent, this remedies that. BTW sentinels are also very good for this still, I think they are pretty much equal.

I don't want anyone to think I am saying they need these things. But to declare them totally none viable is a bit extreme. I plan on running 1 or 2 (depending on my final list) in conjunction with said sentinels, only I will run the sentinels with heavy flamers. I feel like a larger unit of jackals sling shotting up with these units will make a good early game disruption force. You need to remember, we need at least half our stuff on the table, I want that stuff to be very fast. Its a death trap needing to highland charge half your stuff up the board first turn with zero possibility of getting in your opponents face.

I am all ears to any other ideas for occupying table space in the same/similar manner first turn without leaning on the guard book, at least initially. If I can make the GSC work I'd like to stay there, epsecially given the CP nerf to guard battalions.

Oh if you're considering lascannon sentinels then yeah 100% take the ridgerunner instead. I was considering multilaser sentinels for my screening purposes, because if they fulfil their intended role (stopping something like a Da Jump/genestealer rush from impacting my lines turn 1) then they just die, and I want them as cheap as they can go. Plus they fill brigade slots.

Honestly just the ability to take 3 scout sentinels and 3 mortar HWT might ironically be the biggest buff this army got for competitive play, lol. Aberrant wombo-combos are great but we could ace knights with just annointed throng before.

At least scout sentinels were a thing already in the index, right?
I think the comparison of scout sentinels to ridgerunners is the following: Do you just want to have a speedbump as cheap as possible or also want to have okayish anti-tank + support for motobikes?

I suppose the answer to that question is related to whether or not you want to use the bikes.

I think in a strictly competitive setting, which is the premise I'm discussing for the sake of tactics, the answer to that outside of "completely bare minimum sized units for brigades", is likely a "probably not".

I agree with you. The bikes are more of a gimmick choice. They can, however, make a non-negligible contribution to first turn screen clearing.
On the other hand 3x3 mortar teams will do the job more safely and efficiently.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Pariarch doesn't need unquestioning loyalty as the troops around him will have it, no?

Jackals weapon options make sense, just can't take the weapons the rules on the model indicated.

Scout with ambush is hilarious, and I have no idea.

I'm curious to see your overall opinion post LVO, my friend. Genuinely so.

I think so but don't know. Need it FAQ

Jackals I think you are right but I am kind of hoping autoguns and shotguns are an option otherwise you will never see them more than a squad of 5.

Yep. Shotguns and Cultist Knives in my Helix Brigade, call it a day.

but I want autoguns and shotguns .

Though if they can't double shoot for two cost of a neophyte. Don't think they will be worth it. Too expensive otherwise without the dmg output.

Yep. I'm still riding the Acolyte Train fairly hard (Talking like 60 of them in a Brigade), but I do intend to expand into more Neophytes beyond my current 30 over time. Webbers are the real deal t 1ppm now, as well.

Danny slag wrote:So you're going to take a scout vehicle to sit in the back and snipe? Which even doing so would still only land maybe 1-2 shots per game. I get it, you want them to be cool because the miniatures are amazingly designed. But you're being obtuse, any sane person who's played any 40k immediately looks at those stats and knows it's bad.

I'm just looking at what it can do mechanically. It has 3 heavy weapon mounts with decent range and the same general accuracy as anything else in the army, plus it gets to deploy further up the field before the game starts. Why would you move it every turn when it doesn't have any business getting close to the foe outside of occasionally acting as an overwatch sponge?

As far as why I would be interested in running such a unit, it has a defensive profile that mirrors the other vehicles I am already using which offers more threat saturation. Sentinels and Chimeras are just different enough defensively from Goliaths that different types of firepower are more effective and thus saturation is broken. Having everything with the same general defense makes it more difficult for the opponent to optimally use their guns.

Danny slag wrote:
That's like saying "you could use acolytes as a shooting unit because they have autopistols" sure you could...but all you're doing is using something at something it's terrible at just as an excuse to try to use it.

Amusingly enough people are discussing using them as a "shooting unit" with mass hand flamers...

Khorzain wrote:

Timeshadow wrote:

Drdotts wrote:
Sweet, do you know if you can run a sporocyst and the drill in the same fortification detachment?

Does the Drill have the tyranid KW?

Unfortunately it only has the Genestealer Cults keyword

Even if it did have the Tyranid keyword, the Battle Brothers matched play rule requires at least 2 shared faction keywords to include in a detachment or the unaligned keyword, so it would need a <hive fleet> keyword as well to be eligible.

Darkwynn wrote:
- Patriarch does he have unquestioning loyalty or not?

I could see them leaving the rule off him, since unquestioning loyalty allows the model with the rule to intercept the hit - it doesn't make the model eligible to have someone take the hit. Makes sense that the Patriarch won't throw itself in the path of a sniper's bullet to protect an underling, but nothing stops the underlings from doing the same for him.

So the Warhammer Community article for GSC was literally about dropping in a 20 strong unit of hand flamers and getting an average of 70 hits. Something tells me that it isn't going to change or go away any time soon...

It's all S3. It kills guardsmen and Orks.

Then it dies.

It's good, but it's not as insane as the CAAC folks will make you think.

So.. all people its going to use twisted helix?

I still think that in the neophytes the best is rusted claw.. and for everything that is on the table

Can someone take away the idea?

Neophytes I like best as Rusted Claw.

Darkwynn wrote:
but I want autoguns and shotguns .

Though if they can't double shoot for two cost of a neophyte. Don't think they will be worth it. Too expensive otherwise without the dmg output.

They should be more tanky though with 2hp t4 and - 1 to Hit.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
I suppose the answer to that question is related to whether or not you want to use the bikes.

I think in a strictly competitive setting, which is the premise I'm discussing for the sake of tactics, the answer to that outside of "completely bare minimum sized units for brigades", is likely a "probably not".

I get where your coming from, but I hate pigeon holing discussions like that. In a strictly competitive setting GSC out from the index would n ever be considered.

Yeah, the ridgerunner as its rules are written is going to move as many times after the scout move as a scout sentinel is: none.

The double lascannon version does offer some value, landing a lascannon hit and three stub hits each turn. It is certainly the only version I would consider over just running a rockgrinder instead.

Speaking of - I'm kind of liking the rockgrinder now with the clearance incinerator if the incinerator is 12" range 2d6 hits. Deep strike it with the cult of the four-armed emperor trait and it's pretty good at getting in, too.

I still haven't seen rules on the hammers the jackals can take. I am curious how those work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, the ridgerunner as its rules are written is going to move as many times after the scout move as a scout sentinel is: none.

The double lascannon version does offer some value, landing a lascannon hit and three stub hits each turn. It is certainly the only version I would consider over just running a rockgrinder instead.

Speaking of - I'm kind of liking the rockgrinder now with the clearance incinerator if the incinerator is 12" range 2d6 hits. Deep strike it with the cult of the four-armed emperor trait and it's pretty good at getting in, too.

Pretty sure only infantry and bikes can come from underground. But yea, it's still solid. It's basically a hellhound with solid close combat ability.

Also don't forget the ridgerunner benefits from the alphus well.

the_scotsman wrote:
Yeah, the ridgerunner as its rules are written is going to move as many times after the scout move as a scout sentinel is: none.

The double lascannon version does offer some value, landing a lascannon hit and three stub hits each turn. It is certainly the only version I would consider over just running a rockgrinder instead.

Speaking of - I'm kind of liking the rockgrinder now with the clearance incinerator if the incinerator is 12" range 2d6 hits. Deep strike it with the cult of the four-armed emperor trait and it's pretty good at getting in, too.

You cannot deep strike vehicles.

Darkwynn wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Pariarch doesn't need unquestioning loyalty as the troops around him will have it, no?

Jackals weapon options make sense, just can't take the weapons the rules on the model indicated.

Scout with ambush is hilarious, and I have no idea.

I'm curious to see your overall opinion post LVO, my friend. Genuinely so.

I think so but don't know. Need it FAQ

Jackals I think you are right but I am kind of hoping autoguns and shotguns are an option otherwise you will never see them more than a squad of 5.

Patriarch isn't supposed to tank shots for other characters, I think it was an intentional design choice since having UL yourself isn't a requirement for benefiting from it. Not unless they changed the rule from it's previous iteration.

Jackals IMO don't need the double gun loadout to be good, in fact it would be worse in certain scenarios. Your going to want to use these for a turn 1 assault on screens which means they need to advance, so I would rather take the knife and get the extra attack which benefits more from powers anyway. The shotgun can still be fired however. I haven't settled on which cult does them best, I am juggling between rusted claw and twisted helix.

Helix gets the +2 advance and the added S, but odds are I want to cast MFB on them anyway and most screens don't require s5. So I am then looking at rusted claw since they can advance and fire those shotguns first at no penalty and have more durability. I'll probably go rusted claw for sure if/when I take other 5 man demo units as well since that strat they have is insane.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Darkwynn wrote:

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Pariarch doesn't need unquestioning loyalty as the troops around him will have it, no?

Jackals weapon options make sense, just can't take the weapons the rules on the model indicated.

Scout with ambush is hilarious, and I have no idea.

I'm curious to see your overall opinion post LVO, my friend. Genuinely so.

I think so but don't know. Need it FAQ

Jackals I think you are right but I am kind of hoping autoguns and shotguns are an option otherwise you will never see them more than a squad of 5.

Patriarch isn't supposed to tank shots for other characters, I think it was an intentional design choice since having UL yourself isn't a requirement for benefiting from it. Not unless they changed the rule from it's previous iteration.

Jackals IMO don't need the double gun loadout to be good, in fact it would be worse in certain scenarios. Your going to want to use these for a turn 1 assault on screens which means they need to advance, so I would rather take the knife and get the extra attack which benefits more from powers anyway. The shotgun can still be fired however. I haven't settled on which cult does them best, I am juggling between rusted claw and twisted helix.

Helix gets the +2 advance and the added S, but odds are I want to cast MFB on them anyway and most screens don't require s5. So I am then looking at rusted claw since they can advance and fire those shotguns first at no penalty and have more durability. I'll probably go rusted claw for sure if/when I take other 5 man demo units as well since that strat they have is insane.

For melee the pauper princes are much better though. And in this case you better don't use shotguns. You might be out of range otherwise.

True, and that just adds another layer, I forgot about them lol. Over all I am very happy with the traits, I feel like I can run any of them and be happy.

 Red Corsair wrote:
True, and that just adds another layer, I forgot about them lol. Over all I am very happy with the traits, I feel like I can run any of them and be happy.

I'm most likely going to end up with a double battalion setup with half four-armed emp and half rusted claw. All my deep strikey chargey things in the former, all my mechanized troops and neophytes in the latter.