Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Maybe it's because he codex isn't in most people's hands and relying solely off of leaks and youtube videos don't exactly set people up for accurate testing you booger
We have all the infos we need! YT reviews and the leaks and we even have an update for battlescribe for the accurate points. And even if people don't have the codex or haven't played a game yet, we still have enough info to formulate strategies.
Patriarch: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond
Primus: Bonesword, Warlord
+ Troops +
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 2x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Drill
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Heavy Weapon Teams don’t get Cult ambush afaik, which is why mortars are so good for them. They hide out of los, keep deepstrikers out of your backfield, and provide some nice firepower to clear chaff for your melee units. Being cheap heavy slots is still their main purpose though.
I think my list will have 2 mortar teams and a Rockgrinder though. 3 teams seems a little more difficult to hide.
Astmeister wrote: Everyone is talking about mortar teams for HWT, like guard players usually do for brigades. I get it, they are cheap and can stay behind LOS blocking terrain.
But I think you can make certain points for using other heavy weapons in a GSC armies instead, e.g. lasercannons.
1.) You can use blip markers to place HWT! This allows for an amazing adaptation on the enemy deployment. For example it will never happen that your enemy can hide vehicles efficiently from your AT weapons.
2.) GSC are lacking ranged AT weapons in general. They could need the lascannon HWT much more than AM do.
Do BB units get cult ambush?
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Maybe it's because he codex isn't in most people's hands and relying solely off of leaks and youtube videos don't exactly set people up for accurate testing you booger
We have all the infos we need! YT reviews and the leaks and we even have an update for battlescribe for the accurate points. And even if people don't have the codex or haven't played a game yet, we still have enough info to formulate strategies.
Patriarch: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond
Primus: Bonesword, Warlord
+ Troops +
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 2x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Drill
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Patriarch: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond
Primus: Bonesword, Warlord
+ Troops +
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 2x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Drill
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Cult Scout Sentinels . Cult Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer
Taking the two extra sentinels in the final detachment is odd. I feel you'd have better points elsewhere.
Relic amulet is likely better on your Sanctus than the relic dagger.
I wouldn't, personally, double down as hard on Wargear as your list is doing. 4 Saws and assorted hand flamers is mixing a number of things that don't necessarily need to mix, and I feel you'd have better result just running more total units.
Ridgerunner, as mentioned previously, is likely not super great in general.
If your goal here is to have a "mix of everything" casual list, I think you'll be well suited to have fun. However, Competitively speaking I don't believe you're going to have too solid results if your aim is things like Tournaments.
Too many different units doing different jobs, wargear isn't very consistent and we have too many things on units which has you retaining less units than you would likely want.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/02/06 18:30:13
I guess I will add my recent Bat Rep for discussion.
I play-tested a 1500 points double Rusted Claw batallion list against a Custodes list running the new beta rules. List is below, point costs may be a bit off as a lot of changes were made last minute and I may have forgotten some upgrades by now. Also note, i have autogun and shotguns on the bikes, I know this is wrong but didn't realize when I played this game. It does not affect the outcome at all.
Acolyte Hybrids:
. 3x Acolyte Hybrid base
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon):Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrids:
. 3x Acolyte Hybrid base
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon):Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrids:
. 3x Acolyte Hybrid base
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon):Heavy Rock Saw
+ Elites +
6x Genestealers
16x genestealers
Mission: Beachhead from the new chapter approved
Before Battle: Used the first curse strat on the 16 man stealer squad, got poison sacks. Awesome.
Round 1: Custodes go first. Shooty dreadnought and hover tank in the back, ready to blast my dudes, being baby-sat by the Trajaan and a normal troop squd. Two more 3 man custodes cuard squad advance aggressively up the middle. I use ambush markers and used the strat to put an acolyte squad and the larger biker squad underground to remove them from the advancing custodes line of fire. Sanctus uses his free stratagem to take a couple wounds off a custode guard
In the shooting phase, the rockgrinder gets destroyed and the 6 stealers inside jump out just fine. The lascannon jackal squad gets reduced to just the wolfquads. 2 CP spent to autopass morale.
Custodes holding their obj and get first strike
GC's turn: Move up aggresively with goliath truck with one neophyte squad inside foolishly thinking I will wipe out the advancing custodes. The Alphus marks the nearest troop squad and I fire everything, killing just one model. Not good. End turn only holding my obj
Round 2
Custodes: Fire base stays still, the two custode guard near my lines move forward again. He drops a squad of three beta rules terminators in my deployment zone...they have 2x 12 inch heavy flamers each, along with a shield captain.
Shooting phase sees my truck on 3 wounds left, my ridgerunner turned into scrap and my alphus burned to a crisp and my lascannon wolfquads blown up. This essentially reduces my ranged firepower to nill.
Custodes squad charges my truck reducing it to one wound.
Custodes still only holding one OBJ
GC turn: Now is time to make it or break it.
6 man squad of genestealers advance towards the custodes engaging the goliath, neophytes disembark and jump on middle obj and the truck disengages from combat. Kelemorph and second neophyte squad drop in near middle obj. The 4 acolye squds deep strike with the klamavus, magus and patriarch near the shooty dreadnought. Augar scans is used and an acolye squad is reduced to paste. 16 man stealer squad drops in near rea custodian guard, use "a perfect ambush" and roll a 4 to advance within charge distance of the grav tank and Trajaan. 15 man biek squad use "lying in wait" to drop within 3 inches of the terminators in my back line.
In the pshychic phase, mind control gets denied on the dreadnought, patriarch does 6 mortal wounds on the hover tank with mental onslought. Might from beyond goes off on the stealers and mass halucination goes off on the hover tank.
Shooting sees another custodian guard killed in the middle. The 2 grenade strats are used on the big biker blob and only manage to kill a single custodian terminator. They messed up
in the charge phase, genestealers rolled hot (with a re-roll) and manage to charge the grav tank, Trajaan and the custian guard squad in the back-field. They kill the guards, reduce the tank to 4 wounds and strip 4 wounds of Trajaan. Trajaan reduces them to 7 models in return, but is surrounded...is this the end for Trajaan?
1 acolye squad dies to overwatch, the second gets a tanglefoot grenade (strat to reduce charge distance) and the third makes it into a custodian guard squad, deals no damage and gets wiped in return.
The 6 man stealer squad in the back charge and kill the lone custodian guard on the right flank.
GC is now on the middle and rear (held by the sanctus) objs
Turn 3:
Custodes: The shooty dreadnought sees the nearby patriarch and abandons his rear obj. Hover tank follows him. Remaining guards in the middle move to central obj to kill some neophytes. They do not kill enough to contest the obj
Shooting sees the remaining acolyes and goliath destroyed
The terminators in the rear fry and chop up the bikes, some good saves are made and 5 remain after morale.
Custodian guard in the middle charge into the neophytes killing a few more, allowing me to interrupt and kill Trajaan with the stealers, taking his head for the cult. Warlord kill...except shoulder the mantle is used.
At end of turn, GC still control two objectives, custodes control 0.
GC:
Remaining bikers bravely run away from termies and all custodian guard are wiped out. remaining stealers and characters advance on the dreadnought and hover tank....
We had called it here. Hover tank died during assault. And the dreadnought got tied up. He was behind on objectives and his termies were too slow to get to my rear obj in one turn.
All in all, was a fun game.
I think genestealers are still awesome (I also own at least 50). They were for sure the MVPs of the game. I think that the first curse stratagem is worth it as long as you put the squad underground. Even the extra survivability from extended carapace is nice, and I think you can CP re-roll. I also really like the idea of stealers in transports. You essentially give them +3 movement fist turn, and if you put a clamavus nearby, thats +4 inches. This might allow for first turn charges
The sanctus with the relic sniper barely did anything this game, mainly due to shooting custodes. I think he would only shine against weaker characters, but he is so cheap that I want to try a few more games.
My bikers also underperformed due to bad rolls and tough 3++ saves against the demo charges. I think they are viable, but I will not invest so heavily in them again.
The codex is super fun with a lot fun different build options. I think I will try a transport heavy twisted helix detachment next, maybe with some bikers for a possible first turn charge along with some genestealers.
Taking the two extra sentinels in the final detachment is odd. I feel you'd have better points elsewhere.
Relic amulet is likely better on your Sanctus than the relic dagger.
I wouldn't, personally, double down as hard on Wargear as your list is doing. 4 Saws and assorted hand flamers is mixing a number of things that don't necessarily need to mix, and I feel you'd have better result just running more total units.
Ridgerunner, as mentioned previously, is likely not super great in general.
If your goal here is to have a "mix of everything" casual list, I think you'll be well suited to have fun. However, Competitively speaking I don't believe you're going to have too solid results if your aim is things like Tournaments.
Too many different units doing different jobs, wargear isn't very consistent and we have too many things on units which has you retaining less units than you would likely want.
Yes, everything you say is correct. I took this list simply because I wanted to try out as many of the new options as I could. But I also am more of a casual player. The whole min-maxing of the tournament scene is at odds with my desire to play fluffy lists. Yes, altough I do realise that there are some fluffy tournament lists.
Anyway.
The Sanctus is probably a mediocre choice at best. He is neither particularly deadly with his rifle nor with his blades. But I think the dagger is nice. I often play against Orks (Evil Suns) and their T6+ biker characters are tought to crack. So I may give him another shot there. It's also rubbish that he can't just move D6" after DS but hast to use the stratagem, thus depriving a unit of Acolytes or Aberrants etc. of using it. And the amulet is probably better on a Patriarch.
I love the Ridgerunner model and the bikers. Its best loadout is probably spotter + HML to camp in the backfield. Can't understand WHY they would design a fast scout vehicle and then give it only heavy weaponry, making it shoot as poorly as an Ork if it does actually move. In the end I'll probably still include at least 1 or 2 in my lists. It is just too cool. Same goes for the bikes. Probably two min squads in my lists.
Do Neos inside of Trucks benefit from the Jackal Alphus' buff aura?
Astmeister wrote: After checking battlescribe the power hammer might be an option for the jackals.
Sx2 AP -3 D3 -1 to hit for 4 points
If you take a primus for +1 to hit, they might do some damage.
Its a reasonably priced GEQ power fist ooooooooooh my goooooooooood.
Theyve had a whole edition but they've finally got it right!
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Patriarch: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond
Primus: Bonesword, Warlord
+ Troops +
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 2x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Drill
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Cult Scout Sentinels . Cult Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer
Taking the two extra sentinels in the final detachment is odd. I feel you'd have better points elsewhere.
Relic amulet is likely better on your Sanctus than the relic dagger.
I wouldn't, personally, double down as hard on Wargear as your list is doing. 4 Saws and assorted hand flamers is mixing a number of things that don't necessarily need to mix, and I feel you'd have better result just running more total units.
Ridgerunner, as mentioned previously, is likely not super great in general.
If your goal here is to have a "mix of everything" casual list, I think you'll be well suited to have fun. However, Competitively speaking I don't believe you're going to have too solid results if your aim is things like Tournaments.
Too many different units doing different jobs, wargear isn't very consistent and we have too many things on units which has you retaining less units than you would likely want.
At least I have moved the verdict on the Achilles from "total garbage" to "not super great We will see, maybe I have some crow pie coming but I don't think it deserves the cold shoulder yet. So I think we should encourage it's play testing at least, not writing it off.
As to the gear, normally I would be agreeing with you, but those HF are adding 1pt each and only taking 15pts total in his list How is he getting more units for that? I said it before and I'll repeat it, until HF's get a nerfing, they are never a bad upgrade at 1ppm. Same goes for webbers btw, but with those at least there is an opportunity cost, the HF's are always good unless your camping the backfield, at which point you wouldn't want acolytes for that anyway.
The amulet on the sanctus is a good call, I actually like that synergy a lot better since your also not risking your warlord every time you need to shut off over watch and mass hypnosis isn't an option.
I don't mind the sentinels, but I think they should both be scouts. I am not sold on armored sentinels. I feel scout sentinels are just better.
I'm sure this isn't a final list for a tourney anyway. I know my first few games will involve packing as much new stuff in as I can to test out tactic and vetting. I am guessing he didn't bother sharing the list until asked because he was aware of that, no need to label it casual.
Patriarch: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond
Primus: Bonesword, Warlord
+ Troops +
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 2x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Drill
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Cult Scout Sentinels . Cult Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer
Taking the two extra sentinels in the final detachment is odd. I feel you'd have better points elsewhere.
Relic amulet is likely better on your Sanctus than the relic dagger.
I wouldn't, personally, double down as hard on Wargear as your list is doing. 4 Saws and assorted hand flamers is mixing a number of things that don't necessarily need to mix, and I feel you'd have better result just running more total units.
Ridgerunner, as mentioned previously, is likely not super great in general.
If your goal here is to have a "mix of everything" casual list, I think you'll be well suited to have fun. However, Competitively speaking I don't believe you're going to have too solid results if your aim is things like Tournaments.
Too many different units doing different jobs, wargear isn't very consistent and we have too many things on units which has you retaining less units than you would likely want.
At least I have moved the verdict on the Achilles from "total garbage" to "not super great We will see, maybe I have some crow pie coming but I don't think it deserves the cold shoulder yet. So I think we should encourage it's play testing at least, not writing it off.
As to the gear, normally I would be agreeing with you, but those HF are adding 1pt each and only taking 15pts total in his list How is he getting more units for that? I said it before and I'll repeat it, until HF's get a nerfing, they are never a bad upgrade at 1ppm. Same goes for webbers btw, but with those at least there is an opportunity cost, the HF's are always good unless your camping the backfield, at which point you wouldn't want acolytes for that anyway.
The amulet on the sanctus is a good call, I actually like that synergy a lot better since your also not risking your warlord every time you need to shut off over watch and mass hypnosis isn't an option.
I don't mind the sentinels, but I think they should both be scouts. I am not sold on armored sentinels. I feel scout sentinels are just better.
I'm sure this isn't a final list for a tourney anyway. I know my first few games will involve packing as much new stuff in as I can to test out tactic and vetting. I am guessing he didn't bother sharing the list until asked because he was aware of that, no need to label it casual.
You could argue that the opportunity cost of the hand flamer is losing your 1 pistol shot when you drop in unless you use a stratagem to get you closer. For every 40 Acolytes you bring with hand flamers and don't strat them in, you're giving up on killing approximately one guard squad on the drop - it ain't much, but it ain't nothing. They also don't cost nothing either - take 40 cultists with hand flamers and you give up a BB infantry squad or a sentinel.
Also, I am not seeing their impact in overwatch being much great shakes, given their 6" range. It's pretty trivial to charge them from 7" away and still have an approximately 2/3 chance to get in, or at the very least limit it to 1 or 2 models in range.
Sure, it's a micro-impact, but I don't think they're incredible enough on the squad that ISN'T getting them on the drop that they should be considered 100% auto-includes.
I am also not entirely convinced they're going to be that much of a splash on the drop. 3.5 hits per 8 point model is slightly worse output than a FRFSRF infantry squad...which we do have access to, and they do not cost CP's to use.
I'm holding my horses on this combo at least until we see them getting some results. I think that giving up the charge on a 20-strong unit of neophytes is a much bigger opportunity cost than people are taking into account right now.
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
Rules question : does a unit get +1 on charge, when they first come out of a transport, if they are Co4ae even if it is not first turn?
In principle it will still be the first turn that they are put on the battlefield.
Astmeister wrote: Rules question : does a unit get +1 on charge, when they first come out of a transport, if they are Co4ae even if it is not first turn?
In principle it will still be the first turn that they are put on the battlefield.
Yeah, RAW right now, if you deploy them in the transport they're not "on the battlefield" until they first disembark.
So they'd get the +1 to charge (and advance, which they could actually use!)
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!"
I also had the idea of using jackal Alphus in hivecult with the +1 hit Strategem to let everyone hit on a 2+ against the marked unit.
Might be good for Mining laser Neophytes or Ridgerunners.
OK I should have been more clear, I am still not advocating for folks to run 50+ all with HF's, but 15-20 points tacked onto a list is really nothing to nitpick. I also kinda disagree with the range argument verse overwatch. Even guardsmen kill acolytes in assault, especially Catachans which are the popular choice. Forcing them to eat OW or make a riskier charge is easily worth a few more points. Every CC army in the game wants the shortest possible assault because failures occur at the most inopportune times, it forces your opponent to think. I like forcing tough decisions because mistakes or missed opportunities are the easiest path to victory.
That said, if your finishing off your min maxed army and you miss by a few points, of course you can always take a few of these away. But the upgrade is 1/7 the cost of another guy in the squad so I am not seeing how these are equaling a ton of extra bodies. Generally speaking it's hard not to take several of these in any list. At least for me.
Also first rank second rank doesn't exist in the book proper, so you require a guard detachment for the orders which equates to less CP. Also requiring a character that only buffs BB's. It's a nuanced conversation for sure.
Astmeister wrote: After checking battlescribe the power hammer might be an option for the jackals.
Sx2 AP -3 D3 -1 to hit for 4 points
If you take a primus for +1 to hit, they might do some damage.
Its a reasonably priced GEQ power fist ooooooooooh my goooooooooood.
Theyve had a whole edition but they've finally got it right!
That's pretty awesome for pauper prince bikes. You could turn 1 charge with a ridge runner, casting psychic stimulus and might from beyond and really doing some damage. If you dismembark a primus he can get in range from the top of your DZ. 3" plus his 32mm base so ~4" +6" plus his run 1-6" plus his aura range which could be boosted by the WLT to 9" so that a 20-25" reach to get to the back rank of the bikes. Which would boost them to 75% hit rate. Might be worth it.
Edit: Also is that damage 3 or D3? I assume D3
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2019/02/06 20:21:41
Jrandom wrote: With regards to the Index Chimera being able to transport anything and the Codex Chimera being able to load Broodbrothers only; isn’t their a flow-chart that allows options from the Index that are missing in the Codex?
I doubt it.
If the chimera datasheets has got different names, like "Brood Brother Chimera" in the codex and "Cult Chimera" in the index, you might be able to argue this case. But then you would at least have to pay the old points cost for the chimera.
The Codex chimera is called "Cult Chimera", just like in the index, so the name loophole does not work...
I must say that I am not happy about that, since I bought a chimera last weekend when I pre-ordered my codex, and now I'm stuck with a transport that can't transport any of my models, and I'm not really interested in putting together a brood brother squad...
Work in progress p&m blog :
United Colors of Chaos , Relating my ongoing battle with grey plastic...
2022 hobby running tally: bought: 71, built: 45, painted: 17, games played: 3
10000pts 4000pts 5000pts 1500pts
Astmeister wrote: My info on the power hammer is only from battlescribe and says damage 3.
That is what is written in the codex, so yes, 3 damage...
Work in progress p&m blog :
United Colors of Chaos , Relating my ongoing battle with grey plastic...
2022 hobby running tally: bought: 71, built: 45, painted: 17, games played: 3
10000pts 4000pts 5000pts 1500pts
Patriarch: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond
Primus: Bonesword, Warlord
+ Troops +
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 5x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 5x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Acolyte Hybrids: Cult Icon
. 2x Acolyte Hybrid (Hand Flamer): 2x Hand Flamer
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Saw
. Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Hand Flamer, Heavy Rock Drill
. Acolyte Leader: Cultist Knife, Hand Flamer
Cult Scout Sentinels . Cult Scout Sentinel: Heavy Flamer
Taking the two extra sentinels in the final detachment is odd. I feel you'd have better points elsewhere.
Relic amulet is likely better on your Sanctus than the relic dagger.
I wouldn't, personally, double down as hard on Wargear as your list is doing. 4 Saws and assorted hand flamers is mixing a number of things that don't necessarily need to mix, and I feel you'd have better result just running more total units.
Ridgerunner, as mentioned previously, is likely not super great in general.
If your goal here is to have a "mix of everything" casual list, I think you'll be well suited to have fun. However, Competitively speaking I don't believe you're going to have too solid results if your aim is things like Tournaments.
Too many different units doing different jobs, wargear isn't very consistent and we have too many things on units which has you retaining less units than you would likely want.
At least I have moved the verdict on the Achilles from "total garbage" to "not super great We will see, maybe I have some crow pie coming but I don't think it deserves the cold shoulder yet. So I think we should encourage it's play testing at least, not writing it off.
As to the gear, normally I would be agreeing with you, but those HF are adding 1pt each and only taking 15pts total in his list How is he getting more units for that? I said it before and I'll repeat it, until HF's get a nerfing, they are never a bad upgrade at 1ppm. Same goes for webbers btw, but with those at least there is an opportunity cost, the HF's are always good unless your camping the backfield, at which point you wouldn't want acolytes for that anyway.
The amulet on the sanctus is a good call, I actually like that synergy a lot better since your also not risking your warlord every time you need to shut off over watch and mass hypnosis isn't an option.
I don't mind the sentinels, but I think they should both be scouts. I am not sold on armored sentinels. I feel scout sentinels are just better.
I'm sure this isn't a final list for a tourney anyway. I know my first few games will involve packing as much new stuff in as I can to test out tactic and vetting. I am guessing he didn't bother sharing the list until asked because he was aware of that, no need to label it casual.
You could argue that the opportunity cost of the hand flamer is losing your 1 pistol shot when you drop in unless you use a stratagem to get you closer. For every 40 Acolytes you bring with hand flamers and don't strat them in, you're giving up on killing approximately one guard squad on the drop - it ain't much, but it ain't nothing. They also don't cost nothing either - take 40 cultists with hand flamers and you give up a BB infantry squad or a sentinel.
Also, I am not seeing their impact in overwatch being much great shakes, given their 6" range. It's pretty trivial to charge them from 7" away and still have an approximately 2/3 chance to get in, or at the very least limit it to 1 or 2 models in range.
Sure, it's a micro-impact, but I don't think they're incredible enough on the squad that ISN'T getting them on the drop that they should be considered 100% auto-includes.
I am also not entirely convinced they're going to be that much of a splash on the drop. 3.5 hits per 8 point model is slightly worse output than a FRFSRF infantry squad...which we do have access to, and they do not cost CP's to use.
I'm holding my horses on this combo at least until we see them getting some results. I think that giving up the charge on a 20-strong unit of neophytes is a much bigger opportunity cost than people are taking into account right now.
We are many thinking that the whole « HF is so great for 1 pt » is total #%&@ (it is a nice tool to have but nothing more than that). Indeed I also think the 6 range makes it a situational weapon, because this is too short a range to be usually able to charge something else, whereas 20 lasting neophits score 20 hits on average from 12 away and can then attempt a charge, for example. 5 points per dude, 3 less than acolytes with HF.
Ere we go ere we go ere we go
Corona Givin’ Umies Da good ol Krulpin they deserve huh huh
Also @Causalis in your battle report you misread it or your opponent didnt tell you correctly. Maleceptors are not T8 they are T7. The only T8 monsters outside of Forge World are Tyrannofex, Tervigon, Haruspex, and Exocrine.
Why do people feel that Genestealers do not get access to Cult Creeds? The following are some snippets from Geoff Robinson's video. They are blurry, but I see nothing that restricts the Genestealers from their Patriarch's creed.
Jrandom wrote: Why do people feel that Genestealers do not get access to Cult Creeds? The following are some snippets from Geoff Robinson's video. They are blurry, but I see nothing that restricts the Genestealers from their Patriarch's creed.
It is under another section called Cult Creeds., just before where they list what the cult traits give.
Jrandom wrote: Why do people feel that Genestealers do not get access to Cult Creeds? The following are some snippets from Geoff Robinson's video. They are blurry, but I see nothing that restricts the Genestealers from their Patriarch's creed.
It is under another section called Cult Creeds., just before where they list what the cult traits give.
This is the best picture I can get of it. Perhaps you can tell me which author of the GSC preview mentioned it? Was it SEOWinters? I have yet to watch his review.
Jrandom wrote: Why do people feel that Genestealers do not get access to Cult Creeds? The following are some snippets from Geoff Robinson's video. They are blurry, but I see nothing that restricts the Genestealers from their Patriarch's creed.
It is under another section called Cult Creeds., just before where they list what the cult traits give.
This is the best picture I can get of it. Perhaps you can tell me which author of the GSC preview mentioned it? Was it SEOWinters? I have yet to watch his review.
Here you go, it's the last sentence: "Genestealer units are an exception and do not gain a cult creed"
Thank you for clearing that up about GS not getting Creeds.
I have been trying to see about any goodness inside of the Hybrid Metamorphs. They are 9 pts a model, you can only get ten of them in a unit. I did notice, that if you replace their Rending Claw, with a 2nd Metamorph Talon, you get a model that has 5 attacks, hitting on 2s, with Str 4 (5 if you go Twisted Helix). Would it be worth it to spend 90pts on a group of these as chaff clearers?
I can't think of any other model (without any support) that can do that, for 9pts each.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/07 08:44:56
I know it's not exactly "Tactics" but I was inspired by another post (Someone rewrote green eggs and ham along the same vain as this)
To the "Spider-man" theme song:
Three armed man three armed man
Shoots whatever his pistols can
from a blip what a suprize
shoots your warlord and he dies
Look out here comes the three armed man
Is he fast listen bud
He's got crazy genestealer blood
Can he hide that's his bread
Sir look out "Bang" your dead
Hay there! There goes the three armed man
In the heat of the night at the scene of a war
Draws his guns fast as light
Heads blow up see the gore
Three armed man Three armed man
Revolutionary three armed man
By the empire he'd deplored
Killing them, is his reward
Look out!! there goes the three armed mannnnn!!
Jrandom wrote: Thank you for clearing that up about GS not getting Creeds.
I have been trying to see about any goodness inside of the Hybrid Metamorphs. They are 9 pts a model, you can only get ten of them in a unit. I did notice, that if you replace their Rending Claw, with a 2nd Metamorph Talon, you get a model that has 5 attacks, hitting on 2s, with Str 4 (5 if you go Twisted Helix). Would it be worth it to spend 90pts on a group of these as chaff clearers?
I can't think of any other model (without any support) that can do that, for 9pts each.
Imho they might be worth it, if you are using them in a Goliath etc. Meaning you have a very limited number of models available, which should have maximum damage output against hordes. I thought about using 10 in a Goliath with Hand Flamers.
We will see, maybe I have some crow pie coming but I don't think it deserves the cold shoulder yet. So I think we should encourage it's play testing at least, not writing it off.
10000pts 
4000pts 
5000pts 
1500pts 
