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I personally thought about giving one squad of Jackals autoguns and democharges instead of shotguns and running them as cheap fire support but for whatever reason only Squad leader can take autogun so there went that idea.

https://youtu.be/dLnyTflcMhE <----

This gentleman says that he has a source close to GW, who says that the Orders for Brood Brothers are here to stay. I don't know if it is true, but though I would add it here for your consumption.

4 shotguns+ demo charges and heavy incinerator+ demo charge is legal in Jackals?
I dont understand why the kit comes with only 3 shotguns and 2 demo charges, this kit feels stupid.

Araablane wrote:
4 shotguns+ demo charges and heavy incinerator+ demo charge is legal in Jackals?
I dont understand why the kit comes with only 3 shotguns and 2 demo charges, this kit feels stupid.

I'm just going to use spare shotguns and demo charges from the Neophyte and Acolyte kits but yeah, it is pretty stupid that they don't include enough to go around.

Fragile wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:


Also, funny thing I noticed: RAW, Locus can heroically intervene in your charge phase. His rule says

"in the charge phase, when your opponent has finished all his charge moves, this model can heroically intervene..."

Doesn't say your opponent's charge phase, just says "the charge phase" lol.

"Okay, it's my charge phase, have you finished all your charge moves? Anyone? Custode bikers using that 3CP strat? Bueller? OK, so this guy who I used Lying in Wait on is going to Heroically Intervene - NOT CHARGE - into your lines."

Except you cannot Heroic Intervene in your own charge phase by rule.

bearden314 wrote:


I may be missing something, but doesnt the codex say they cannot use Orders?

From Page 108:

These ASTRA MILITARUM Detachments are then known as BROOD BROTHERS Detachments

BROOD BROTHERS Detachments do not gain any of the Detachment abilities listed in Codex: Astra Militarum, such as Regimental Doctrines, nor can they use any regiment-specific Stratagems, Orders etc.

RAW you are correct, they could not use Orders, however reading that whole rule it appears that context is regiment specific stuff.

The problem is this is a game without usrs. So you can't heroically intervene on your turn but the locus has a different identically worded rule....so gw has to go in and faq it again....

Araablane wrote:
4 shotguns+ demo charges and heavy incinerator+ demo charge is legal in Jackals?
I dont understand why the kit comes with only 3 shotguns and 2 demo charges, this kit feels stupid.

You cannot take demo charges for Wolf quads.

I might be being stupid here, but is there any way to make brood brother units pop up from underground?

 DoomMouse wrote:
I might be being stupid here, but is there any way to make brood brother units pop up from underground?

Yes, they have Cult Ambush. At least the Brood Brothers in the GSC book have it.

Astmeister wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
I might be being stupid here, but is there any way to make brood brother units pop up from underground?

Yes, they have Cult Ambush. At least the Brood Brothers in the GSC book have it.

Brood Brother units in GSC Detachment does still have Cult Ambush special rule.

But Astra Militarum detahcment allied to GSC, while gaining Brood Brother keyword, don't have such an ability but gain 1+ LD and Unquestining Loyalty.


So if you want suprise Leman Russ tank then go with GSC one.

Sotahullu wrote:

Astmeister wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
I might be being stupid here, but is there any way to make brood brother units pop up from underground?

Yes, they have Cult Ambush. At least the Brood Brothers in the GSC book have it.

Brood Brother units in GSC Detachment does still have Cult Ambush special rule.

But Astra Militarum detahcment allied to GSC, while gaining Brood Brother keyword, don't have such an ability but gain 1+ LD and Unquestining Loyalty.


So if you want suprise Leman Russ tank then go with GSC one.

Note that Leman Russ tanks cannot come from underground though. This is just an option for non-vehicle units.

Araablane wrote:
4 shotguns+ demo charges and heavy incinerator+ demo charge is legal in Jackals?
I dont understand why the kit comes with only 3 shotguns and 2 demo charges, this kit feels stupid.

Probably because most kits aren't designed with the optimum loadout in mind. Look on the bright side - you could be building deathwatch!

If you don't have a spare shotgun and grenade throwing arm lying around, you must have..never bought a single neophyte kit?

A unit of 8 bikes plus 2 quads all with shotguns, 5x demo charge, 3x cult knife, 2x Heavy stubber is only 139pts. This gives it some durability in case you need to weather a turn of opp shooting before deploying your demo charges :-)

 Astmeister wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
I might be being stupid here, but is there any way to make brood brother units pop up from underground?

Yes, they have Cult Ambush. At least the Brood Brothers in the GSC book have it.

Thanks, think I'd got confused!

Wow, that'd crazy powerful if they do retain orders then. 20 4pt guardsmen deepstriking for free into FRFSRF range is pretty brutal. Just need to have a commander close to the front line to issue it when they come in (or a tempestor prime I guess)

I just calculated the points efficiency of some GSC screen clearing units for first turn screen clearing against GEQs.

1.) Heavy Bolter HWT - 16.8 ppw

2.) Atalan Jackals with 4x Shotgun (short range), 1x Atalan incinerator - 18.54 ppw

3.) 10 Neophytes with 2 GL, 2 Heavy Stubbers - 19.64 ppw

4.) Mortar HWT - 20.57 ppw

If you consider the +1 to hit buff by Jackal Alphus the Neophytes win by a lot with 14.21 ppw.
It is worth noting that Atalan Jackals are pretty good at screen clearing but also have a lot of drawbacks for this. You cannot really easily reach the 6 inch short range for shotguns in the first turn and they will be super exposed afterwards.

The Heavy Bolter HWT might be more popular in comparison to AM HWT with heavy bolters, because you can cult ambush them in a perfect screen clearing position. They are also significantly better against MEQ screens.

[Edit] 20 Brood Brother infantry with a FRFSRF company commander have a very good 16.5 ppw. But this is of course a bit harder to pull of.

 Astmeister wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:



Also not too sure about warlord traits and relics at this point, other than that I know I will be taking an Anointed Throng specialist detachment with an Abominant Field Commander w/the special warlord trait from Vigilus and the relic sledgehammer that doesn't have a -1 to hit penalty. Since my Patriarch has to be the Warlord, I am considering using the Broodcoven strat to give my Primus and Magus WL traits, but beyond that, idk.

[/spoiler]

If your army contains a patriarch, no other genestealer cults character or brood brothers character can be your Warlord. (page 108 Codex Genestealer Cults)

Not sure I understand the objection. The last line of my post recognized that the Patriarch has to be the warlord. The question was what warlord traits and cult traits to use, assuming I am going to use the Broodcoven strat to give the magus and primus a WL trait? I think I have settled on cult of the four armed emperor, and then will stick the +1A/+1S trait on the Patriarch, the +D3 CP trait on the Magus, and the +3" aura range trait on the Primus. The +D3 command point trait essentially pays for me to use Broodcoven, which is nice.

I maybe misread that you wanted to give a WL trait to the abominant.

 Asmodas wrote:

 Astmeister wrote:

 Asmodas wrote:



Also not too sure about warlord traits and relics at this point, other than that I know I will be taking an Anointed Throng specialist detachment with an Abominant Field Commander w/the special warlord trait from Vigilus and the relic sledgehammer that doesn't have a -1 to hit penalty. Since my Patriarch has to be the Warlord, I am considering using the Broodcoven strat to give my Primus and Magus WL traits, but beyond that, idk.

[/spoiler]

If your army contains a patriarch, no other genestealer cults character or brood brothers character can be your Warlord. (page 108 Codex Genestealer Cults)

Not sure I understand the objection. The last line of my post recognized that the Patriarch has to be the warlord. The question was what warlord traits and cult traits to use, assuming I am going to use the Broodcoven strat to give the magus and primus a WL trait? I think I have settled on cult of the four armed emperor, and then will stick the +1A/+1S trait on the Patriarch, the +D3 CP trait on the Magus, and the +3" aura range trait on the Primus. The +D3 command point trait essentially pays for me to use Broodcoven, which is nice.

Note there is no restriction that these 3 have to be in the same detachment so if you are going competitive and using multiple Cultures then you can theoretically have one in each allowing for some cool relic and WL trait customization.

 Astmeister wrote:
I maybe misread that you wanted to give a WL trait to the abominant.

theres a 1cp stratagem in vigilus allowing you to give a specialist detachment WL trait to a character who is not your warlord.

Definitely want to get that on your abominant.

Gordoape wrote:
Do people feel that Purestrains are not worth taking at this point? Better just to stick with acolytes and aberrants?

I think Purestrains are really strong. For the price of about 2 full Acolytes squads, it hits similarly hard with Might factored in, but unlike deepstriking acolytes you can get the entire unit in at the one turn. You can also use pre-game buff strat for extra mileage, and also they get a natural 2+ WS from. Patriarch without needing a Primus. Good tool to have in the book, no. longer autotake. Great choice for an allied C4E detachment for Nids imo.

Anointed Throng Abominants in a 4-armed Emperor detachment with a Clamavus can get your Aberrants in on a 6” charge.

I think for best results I’d Perfect Ambush a Primus in with them for the reroll 1’s to wound and +1 hit, and for complete overkill drop a Biophagus and Magus in to buff them as well.

That’s one nice thing about your options here, you can pump a unit up to extreme levels of damage if you’re willing to put the effort into it.

Well, biophagus is start of movement phase. Bets way to use him is to deploy the unit and buff it, then return to shadows turn 1, but I am not sure it is worth the risk.

What id the best mental onslaught bomb we can pull?

As far as I can see: pop up with patriarch and clamavus. Ld 11. Have the locus with lying in wake. - 1 Ld on the opposing unit.

Have the crouchling and re-roll stratagem to ensure you pull off the psykick power.

As long as you target something that did not have Ld 10 or 9 to begin with the ods of killing something really goes up.

I do not have a lot of knights in my meta, but I asumr it is Ld 10?

Bloodsurge detachment relic gives +1 Ld for everyone in 6" of the Iconward you give it.

Is that from the vigulus book?

12 vs 9 are some tasty odds even against a knight.

Throw in the horror for -1 from tyranids or terrify for -2 from Astra Militarum and your auto killing most things in the game

You will provably hit dimineshing returns after a while, espeially in an all commers list.

in order of reliability


A grade (guaranteed):

+1 LD warlord trait
+1 LD vigilus relic
+1 LD clamavus



B grade (can fail, but still quite reliable)

-1 LD the Horror (Nid allies)
-1 LD Locus (use strat to deploy closer if necessary)




C grade (unreliable, gimmicky)

-1 LD jorm relic on Flyrant (Nid allies)


D grade (don't even bother)

-2 LD Terrifying Visions (AM allies)



terrifying visions is WC 7 spell on a walking HQ from an ally that isn't really beneficial to take in the first place


If I'm forgetting something let me know. I'll edit this into the OP

I forgot about the warlord trait.

That is very nasty indeed.

I've been reading and re-reading the book to see what interesting things I could find. Wanted to get people's thoughts on a few things.

Hybrid Metamorphs - With a pair of talons, they have five attacks each and a +1 to hit. Seems like they can be fairly independent, and at 120 points for a full unit (with a Cult Icon), they seem like a halfway decent unit.

Ridgerunners - Seems to me like taking advantage of their scout move just makes them more of a turn 1 target, and there's not a really good way to mitigate the -1 to hit for mounted heavy weapons. Is this another one of those "use ability A, or gear B, but not both effectively" units?

Cult of the Bladed Cog seems to work well with shooty infantry. Would it even be worth it to run a bunch of shooty Neophyte squads (with heavy weapons) in Goliaths? Gets points spendy pretty quick, but seems like it could be OK.

Are Jackals anywhere near durable enough to do anything besides a one-and-done kind of strike?

Are Russes even worth the points at all? Seems like a "no" to me.

 Red Corsair wrote:
Well, biophagus is start of movement phase. Bets way to use him is to deploy the unit and buff it, then return to shadows turn 1, but I am not sure it is worth the risk.

Biophaus is "...end of each movement phase." So he can deploy from underground together with aberrants. still not sure I'll use him, but it is a possibility.