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Mellon wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
Well, biophagus is start of movement phase. Bets way to use him is to deploy the unit and buff it, then return to shadows turn 1, but I am not sure it is worth the risk.

Biophaus is "...end of each movement phase." So he can deploy from underground together with aberrants. still not sure I'll use him, but it is a possibility.

Actually I am not sure. Deploying underground is at the end of the movement phase. Biophagus ability is also at the end of the movement phase. Normally GW's ruling is that "end of the movement phase" means you cannot do anything else after this.
So is this legal?

In that case, the player whose turn it is decides in what order they happen.

 SHUPPET wrote:
in order of reliability


A grade (guaranteed):

+1 LD warlord trait
+1 LD vigilus relic
+1 LD clamavus



B grade (can fail, but still quite reliable)

-1 LD the Horror (Nid allies)
-1 LD Locus (use strat to deploy closer if necessary)




C grade (unreliable, gimmicky)

-1 LD jorm relic on Flyrant (Nid allies)


D grade (don't even bother)

-2 LD Terrifying Visions (AM allies)



terrifying visions is WC 7 spell on a walking HQ from an ally that isn't really beneficial to take in the first place


If I'm forgetting something let me know. I'll edit this into the OP

Even with the reliable and easy to set up stuff you can autokill a Baneblade and are likely to take a considerable number of wounds from a knight before you roll a 1 to their 6, if not one-shot it.

Surely, there's no way this is surviving an FAQ? I'd expect it to be changed to target enemy infantry only.

Have at it in the meantime, though!

nfe wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
in order of reliability


A grade (guaranteed):

+1 LD warlord trait
+1 LD vigilus relic
+1 LD clamavus



B grade (can fail, but still quite reliable)

-1 LD the Horror (Nid allies)
-1 LD Locus (use strat to deploy closer if necessary)




C grade (unreliable, gimmicky)

-1 LD jorm relic on Flyrant (Nid allies)


D grade (don't even bother)

-2 LD Terrifying Visions (AM allies)



terrifying visions is WC 7 spell on a walking HQ from an ally that isn't really beneficial to take in the first place


If I'm forgetting something let me know. I'll edit this into the OP

Even with the reliable and easy to set up stuff you can autokill a Baneblade and are likely to take a considerable number of wounds from a knight before you roll a 1 to their 6, if not one-shot it.

Surely, there's no way this is surviving an FAQ? I'd expect it to be changed to target enemy infantry only.

Have at it in the meantime, though!

that's what I'm thinking. People say it takes a lot of moving pieces, but yeah, those moving pieces don't really cost a lot and all come with other benefits. The ability to autowin games vs people with LoW just by casting a single power, is a real "feel bad" moment and exactly the sort of thing the design team wants gone. Use it while it's here, not like any of the models are bad, but I wouldn't expect it to last long.

On the other hand it is a pretty hard counter to Castellans, which dominate the meta so much. This might single-handedly break their dominance.
But I also agree that negating one broken thing with another broken thing is stupid.

 Astmeister wrote:
On the other hand it is a pretty hard counter to Castellans, which dominate the meta so much. This might single-handedly break their dominance.
But I also agree that negating one broken thing with another broken thing is stupid.

It's called armsrace and supplies the supplier with money....

I had another 1500pt battle with the cult yesterday. This time against Blood Angels. I tried the Hivecult Gene Sect out and I have to say I am really really impressed. I genuinely think it might be a hidden gem and one of the more powerful traits. How I leveraged it was I put a Magus, Jackal Alphus, Iconward and Patriarch Underground along with 60 Neophytes. I brought them all in on T2 in a big blob, with layers of Neos screening the characters. Thanks to the Jackel Alphus I was able to give +1 to hit against a unit and with the Hivelord Warlord Trait I had reroll 1s to hit. I managed to do a wound with the first squad, so I popped the Hivecult Strat, Chilling Efficiency and I got another +1 to hit. Suddenly my neos were hitting on 2s rerolling 1s against one of the enemy units, in this case I was able to kill a whole bunch of scouts. Which was important as I still had a big blob of acolytes that I wanted to bring in after clearing the enemy screen.

When the Blood Angels countered with Sanguinary Guard and a Captain, I was able to fall back and still shoot. Even though I was at -1, I again used the Jackal Alphus and bam, hitting on 4s, I managed to sneak a wound on to the Sang Guard with the Jackels sniper and again I used chilling efficiency. So even though I had fallen back I could still hit the chosen enemy unit on 3s rerolling 1s.

It was really powerful and I think if I was able to take a few heavy weapons (i was just spamming autoguns) and I took another of these blobs then it will be extremely powerful list. Now this blob did cost me 628 points, so its not cheap. But you could make it cheaper by taking a Kelamorph and you dont need the Magus in the blob either. I found the Key part was the reroll 1s, the +1/+2 to hit and the 6+ Feel No pain from the banner. Morale was not an issue as I was either fearless or only took 1 or 2 extra casualties due to the Hivecult Trait.

I am looking forward to trying out the other Gene Sects. I have used Bladed Cog, Twiste Helix and now Hivecult. I will be trying out Rusted Claw next I think and see how durable my Neos can get!

Also I have heard a rumour that Metal Onslaught is going to be based on Unmodified Leadership. So it will still be powerful but not OP.

if that was the plan they would have just made the drill a LoW killer or some gak. This is not a big profitable decision how it currently stands. Hell the only unit released this decade involved in the combo, is the Clamavus.

 FatBoyNoSlim wrote:
I had another 1500pt battle with the cult yesterday. This time against Blood Angels. I tried the Hivecult Gene Sect out and I have to say I am really really impressed. I genuinely think it might be a hidden gem and one of the more powerful traits. How I leveraged it was I put a Magus, Jackal Alphus, Iconward and Patriarch Underground along with 60 Neophytes. I brought them all in on T2 in a big blob, with layers of Neos screening the characters. Thanks to the Jackel Alphus I was able to give +1 to hit against a unit and with the Hivelord Warlord Trait I had reroll 1s to hit. I managed to do a wound with the first squad, so I popped the Hivecult Strat, Chilling Efficiency and I got another +1 to hit. Suddenly my neos were hitting on 2s rerolling 1s against one of the enemy units, in this case I was able to kill a whole bunch of scouts. Which was important as I still had a big blob of acolytes that I wanted to bring in after clearing the enemy screen.

When the Blood Angels countered with Sanguinary Guard and a Captain, I was able to fall back and still shoot. Even though I was at -1, I again used the Jackal Alphus and bam, hitting on 4s, I managed to sneak a wound on to the Sang Guard with the Jackels sniper and again I used chilling efficiency. So even though I had fallen back I could still hit the chosen enemy unit on 3s rerolling 1s.

It was really powerful and I think if I was able to take a few heavy weapons (i was just spamming autoguns) and I took another of these blobs then it will be extremely powerful list. Now this blob did cost me 628 points, so its not cheap. But you could make it cheaper by taking a Kelamorph and you dont need the Magus in the blob either. I found the Key part was the reroll 1s, the +1/+2 to hit and the 6+ Feel No pain from the banner. Morale was not an issue as I was either fearless or only took 1 or 2 extra casualties due to the Hivecult Trait.

I am looking forward to trying out the other Gene Sects. I have used Bladed Cog, Twiste Helix and now Hivecult. I will be trying out Rusted Claw next I think and see how durable my Neos can get!

Also I have heard a rumour that Metal Onslaught is going to be based on Unmodified Leadership. So it will still be powerful but not OP.

I really think that all of the Cult Creeds in the codex are good. I know people talk about what's best or most competitive, but just from an overall standpoint I think they are all good. And I'm glad they promote different play styles as well! It's nice to see.

It will be interesting to see what creed performs the best for shooty lists. Hive Cult, Bladed Cog, and Rusted Claw all benefit Neophyte heavy lists, but they all play differently.

 Badablack wrote:
Anointed Throng Abominants in a 4-armed Emperor detachment with a Clamavus can get your Aberrants in on a 6” charge.

I think for best results I’d Perfect Ambush a Primus in with them for the reroll 1’s to wound and +1 hit, and for complete overkill drop a Biophagus and Magus in to buff them as well.

That’s one nice thing about your options here, you can pump a unit up to extreme levels of damage if you’re willing to put the effort into it.

You absolutely can, the question is really when does it become not worth it.

IMO, I don't think that the points gap between hammer and pick is enough to justify the extra levels of buffing you need to make all picks remove similar targets that hammers can. I think you need to get them at LEAST down to a 7" charge to call them reliable (though if your army's big punch is a unit of aberrants rather than futzing around with getting COTFAE and Annointed with the Abominant with the Relic with the Clamavus...you could just use 3 of your CP to get them D6" closer.)

You want hammers, twisted helix, a biophagus (I find him worth in twisted helix because he can boost the lumpy lads up to S14 with the hammers, giving you wounds on 2 vs vehicles, and attacks/toughness is always useful), Might from Beyond, and a Primus to make them more accurate, and you wand them in Annointed Throng.

I don't love the Abominant at his new price, since if you bring him in as a buff vector he's less likely to make it in by himself, and at his new price point I don't think the buff is worth it on its own.

Annointed Throng Twisted Helix aberrants can just attack as many times as they need to in the round they come in, pretty much enough to make whatever needs to get dead dead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

nfe wrote:

 SHUPPET wrote:
in order of reliability


A grade (guaranteed):

+1 LD warlord trait
+1 LD vigilus relic
+1 LD clamavus



B grade (can fail, but still quite reliable)

-1 LD the Horror (Nid allies)
-1 LD Locus (use strat to deploy closer if necessary)




C grade (unreliable, gimmicky)

-1 LD jorm relic on Flyrant (Nid allies)


D grade (don't even bother)

-2 LD Terrifying Visions (AM allies)



terrifying visions is WC 7 spell on a walking HQ from an ally that isn't really beneficial to take in the first place


If I'm forgetting something let me know. I'll edit this into the OP

Even with the reliable and easy to set up stuff you can autokill a Baneblade and are likely to take a considerable number of wounds from a knight before you roll a 1 to their 6, if not one-shot it.

Surely, there's no way this is surviving an FAQ? I'd expect it to be changed to target enemy infantry only.

Have at it in the meantime, though!

At this point, there are so many things that are potentially crazy broken (and for the first time, I mean that like not "oh, this is too strong" just "oh, this is WEIRD and feels like walking through a wall in a video game rather than a thing that is stronger than intended") that unless it is a REAL doozy of an FAQ, there will be stuff getting through.

I love the strats, relics, and cult creeds in this codex, I think they give the player interesting choices. There are a whole hell of a lot of things in this book that the designers cannot have intended, though.

At my current count, you've got:

-Deepstriking FRFSRF brood bros
-Locus' "not heroic intervention" being usable on your turn and combo-able with Lying in Wait
-Lying in Wait transports allowing super easy turn 1 charges
-Move/Fight Thrice brood brother Crusaders
-Mental Onslaught Bomb
-Orderable bullgryns
-BB transports you can stuff full of bullgryns/bulky models because they weren't originally intended to have those models in them
-Rubrics/Horrors/Wyrdvanes chainsploding like ladyfinger firecrackers when Sanctus shoots them

When is the FAQ supposed do drop?
I want to make a 2000 point list that im going to build towards but it seems pointless before the codex FAQ, am i in the right?

You are very much in the right.

What is the problem with the sanctus sniper rifle and horrors etc.?
Sure they get another D3 mortal wounds after one successful wound, but this neither seems broken nor unintentional

Since getting the codex, IV been going back and forth between Acolytes and Abberants to see which unit does the most DMG in terms of PPU (Points per unit) including adding wargear or better weapons.

Forgetting Hive cults, relics and any pysker power bonuses. Which of these units with their configuration preforms better.

Acolytes

Aberrants

On a general note, I think GW did a great job with this codex. A lot of our Stratgems work really well. The ones that are expensive are worth their cost points and we got a lot of good gems that only cost 1 CP e.g. Broodcoven, Clandestine Goals, Devoted crew, hyper-metabolism etc

My favorite Hive cults is probably Pauper Princes (especially when paired with the Focus of Adoration), Blades Cogs and The Hivecult if running mass Troop choices. I think all the Hive cults are great but those 3 seem very reliable.

Out pysker powers are probably the best powers in the game (on par with Eldar maybe) and with 7 being our highest cast value we should reliable be able to do all our powers. Mental Onslaught is ridiculous.

I haven't spent that much time with the Codex due to a stressful week but I can't wait to dwelve into this codex more.

Anyone able to point out some combos + loop holes that j coudl have possiblity missed out on?

GSC got lots of toys but don't forget about the boys... I got a lot of acolyte hybrids and I'am tend to use them. I'am thinking about this list:

BATTALION RUSTED CLAW

HQ: Patriarch
HQ: Primus (*WL: entropic touch)
TR: 10 neophytes
TR: 10 neophytes
TR: 18 neophytes

BATTALION RUSTED CLAW (possible deliverance broodsurge detachment)

HQ: Patriarch + familiar (WL: alien majesty)
HQ: Acolyte iconward
TR: 20 acolyte hybrids + 20x flamers
TR: 20 acolytes hybrids + 5x demolition charge
TR: 20 acolytes hybrids
TR: 20 acolytes hybrids
TR: 20 acolytes hybrids
TR: 20 acolytes hybrids
EL: Clamavus

BATTALION CULT OF THE 4...
HQ: magus (WL: inscrutable cunning)
HQ: Acolyte iconward
TR: 10 neophytes
TR: 10 neophytes
TR: 10 neophytes

**199 reinforcement points**

- Use the broodcoven stratagem to get 3 warlord traits.
- Probably get the croughling relic or the +1S Iconward upgrade.
- Blue units get put in ambush and green units get put in ambush with stratagem. Other patriarch could 'go into the shadows' if needed.
- 200 reinforcement points gives me the option to summon (stratagem) one big/tough unit. Thinking about 18 acolytes + 6 rock saws + icon, or 14 purstrains or 6 abberants with heavy power picks.Maybe even another acolyte unit with 20 handflamers or 5 demolition charges, The can be rusted claw or cult of the 4..

I really like the kellermorph but I think at some point you need more boys then toy's. Also not sure if I should go full 'cult of the 4.. 'Because that extra +1 charge can be handy but with rusted claw they're much tougher.

I think rusted claw is better but you need a bit of 'cult of the 4..' to get the counter stratagem and +d3 CP warlord trait.
I think abberants are great but I might be in favour of summoning a full unit of acolytes with 6 rock saws + icon and boost them with 'might from beyond'.

Finally got my codex yesterday, and after thumbing through it, I'm thinking I'll stick to my original plan of going 4-Armed Emperor (they have the best combination of Creed, WL trait, strategem, and relic IMO) with maybe a detachment of Twisted Helix A-bombs. I'll definitely wait until after the FAQ before I start making purchasing decisions, though. I'm surprised I haven't heard more discussion about the 4AE WL trait. Getting a bonus d3 CP seems pretty good. Has everyone just decided that other WL traits are better?

very interesting list! I thought something similar

I would change demolition chargues for saws.

Also I have doubts what cult works better in this kind of lists.. against astra, daemons, battle sisters.. that +1 to armour is good, but against marines, necrons,etc etc, +1 Strength It is a big difference.

my other question is if its better 3 battalions or battalion + brigade.
With the last you win +2cp, you need to spend 250 points in fast and heavy ( sentinels or motorbikes are OK, mortars are really good) but you save a CG too.

 Odrankt wrote:
Anyone able to point out some combos + loop holes that j coudl have possiblity missed out on?

I have a couple of combos that no one has mentioned yet.

1) Super-Buffer Cult Icon Bearer, made a Warlord via Deliverence Broodsurge field commander stratagem, give him the WL Trait for +3” to Auras (Alien Majesty) and the +1 STR Relic. His 5 Auras now have increased range.
a) 6” Look Out Sir
b) 9” +1 STR
c) 9” Re-roll failed morale
d) 9” 6+ Feel No Pain
e) 9” Re-roll 1s for Aberrant’s Feel No Pain

2) Powered Armored Neophytes. Create using Rusted Claw (+1 Save vs AP 0 or -1,) arm them with max range weapons (6 Autoguns, 2 Heavy Stubbers, 2 Grenade Launchers, 60pt 10 man units,) then put them behind Aegis Defence Line (75pts,) maybe even take the Fragdrill (another 75pts) since you already have the fortifications detachment (the drill gives cover and has a portal that gives you a free “Return to the Shadows” each turn) and 1x per game does d3 Mortal Wounds & 1/2 move on a roll of 4+, in a line, on every unit hit, going from one table edge to the another. Maybe buff them the with Jackal Alphus, since the Rusted Claw is the biker’s creed (with move and fire heavy weapons.) You can also deepstrike other units with shorter range weapons into various pieces of cover around the table. And who is going to waste tank killer weapons on a 5pt model with a 3+ save?

 EnTyme wrote:
Finally got my codex yesterday, and after thumbing through it, I'm thinking I'll stick to my original plan of going 4-Armed Emperor (they have the best combination of Creed, WL trait, strategem, and relic IMO) with maybe a detachment of Twisted Helix A-bombs. I'll definitely wait until after the FAQ before I start making purchasing decisions, though. I'm surprised I haven't heard more discussion about the 4AE WL trait. Getting a bonus d3 CP seems pretty good. Has everyone just decided that other WL traits are better?

While I do like the CotFAE Creed, their Warlord Trait is too generic to be interesting to me. I mean it's never going to be BAD, but I find it bland. There isn't really much to discuss with it.

I really don't like their relic either. I don't think it fits super well onto anything. I would argue that its a waste on the Primus since he's probably going to be swinging with his Toxin Injector Claw anyway.

 EnTyme wrote:
Finally got my codex yesterday, and after thumbing through it, I'm thinking I'll stick to my original plan of going 4-Armed Emperor (they have the best combination of Creed, WL trait, strategem, and relic IMO) with maybe a detachment of Twisted Helix A-bombs. I'll definitely wait until after the FAQ before I start making purchasing decisions, though. I'm surprised I haven't heard more discussion about the 4AE WL trait. Getting a bonus d3 CP seems pretty good. Has everyone just decided that other WL traits are better?

In my mind, it's already a no-brainer if you have a Patriarch, Primus and Magus. You spend the CP for the Broodcoven strat, then choose the CotFAE warlord trait for one of them. Worst case you break even on CPs and still get the extra traits.

My plan continues to focus on CotFAE, just because I want to lean hard into underground deployment and think that +1" is too good to pass up. But all the creeds seem pretty good.

Most likly you go brood cove. Give the patriarch + 1 leadership or a CC upgrade. Aura on the primus if you have him. And the 1d3 CP on the magus.

I think all 6 faction abilaties are good. A very good spread of abilaties in this one.

 Astmeister wrote:
What is the problem with the sanctus sniper rifle and horrors etc.?
Sure they get another D3 mortal wounds after one successful wound, but this neither seems broken nor unintentional

Perils of the warp has an extra "Perils explosion" of D3 mortals "if the caster is slain"

Because this would obviously be hyper-punishing to units of psykers if those D3 mortal wounds from the perils could cause multiple explosions (thus causing even more havoc within the unit) 90% of units of psykers have some kind of extra-special snowflaketastic Bespoke Rule (tm) that prevents them from chainsploding from perils. Almost all the time, this rule just says "if this unit suffers perils of the warp it only causes an explosion if the last model in the unit dies."

See every grey knight unit, warlock conclaves, zoanthropes, etc etc etc.

HOWEVER.

The units that had no way to peril, either because they have the psyker keyword but don't know any spells (rubrics who are not the aspiring sorceror sergeant) or because they roll only a single die when taking their psychic tests (wyrdvanes and pink horrors and probably a few more I'm not remembering) have no such protection.

So, when you put an ability into the game that FORCES them to peril, well... gak gets GOOFY.

If the Sanctus' rifle, which remember he can shoot twice the turn he arrives for 0CP, successfully wounds a Rubric marine and kills one, it dies. 1 casualty. Then, the unit suffers a Perils of the Warp, 2 casualties average. Then, EACH OF THOSE CASUALTIES causes an ADDITIONAL D3 mortal wounds to the unit and everyone within 6" - probably 2-3 units on average in an army that typically has transports, screens and supporting aura characters?

So, no, I don't think it screams "this is working as intended" when our little sniper character causes 200-300 points of havoc the turn he arrives but only if he happens to be playing against one specific enemy faction that doesn't have magical bespoke rule protection.

Attached a copy of my current list.

5x10 and 1x9 Acolytes in a Twisted Helix Brigade w/ Broodsurge makes them terrific at handling low-medium threats, the Aberrants can tackle larger ones like Knights/etc, Large bike bomb capitalizes off of absurd levels of movement and can screen as a result, and 60 Neophytes with Webbers lets me show up and snag objectives from opponents via lying in wait, etc.

Feels tight. Lemme know what you think.

zamerion wrote:very interesting list! I thought something similar

I would change demolition chargues for saws.

Also I have doubts what cult works better in this kind of lists.. against astra, daemons, battle sisters.. that +1 to armour is good, but against marines, necrons,etc etc, +1 Strength It is a big difference.

I rather use the +1S relic iconward + 'might from beyond' psychic power to boost specific units. But +1 save against ap0 and ap-1 weapons really helps against anti-infantry shooting. Think about custodes jetbikes with 12 rapid fire bolters shots. Also first turn 'prepared positions' or regular cover can boost that save to a 3+.

zamerion wrote: my other question is if its better 3 battalions or battalion + brigade.
With the last you win +2cp, you need to spend 250 points in fast and heavy ( sentinels or motorbikes are OK, mortars are really good) but you save a CG too.

Yep, was thinking about that but I need these points for more 'in your face' units. Looking for the cheapest/best way to 'deploy' half my army on the field and then drop as much units in with ambush and get stuck in CC fast as possible. Don't want shooting units. Other factions are better at that.

Cephalobeard wrote:Attached a copy of my current list.

5x10 and 1x9 Acolytes in a Twisted Helix Brigade w/ Broodsurge makes them terrific at handling low-medium threats, the Aberrants can tackle larger ones like Knights/etc, Large bike bomb capitalizes off of absurd levels of movement and can screen as a result, and 60 Neophytes with Webbers lets me show up and snag objectives from opponents via lying in wait, etc.

Feels tight. Lemme know what you think.

I believe when you field a patriarch you need to make it your warlord, right?

Not only is it my Warlord, but I'm also using the Broodcoven strat to also allocate my Primus and Magus as Warlords.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Not only is it my Warlord, but I'm also using the Broodcoven strat to also allocate my Primus and Magus as Warlords.

Those are only "treated" as Warlords for purpose of giving warlord traits. So your Patriach will still remain the sole undisputed alien overlord!


But anyway I am planning stuff but I decided on getting Leman Russ and (definitely) Ridgerunners.

 Niiai wrote:
Most likly you go brood cove. Give the patriarch + 1 leadership or a CC upgrade. Aura on the primus if you have him. And the 1d3 CP on the magus.

That's my thinking also.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Not only is it my Warlord, but I'm also using the Broodcoven strat to also allocate my Primus and Magus as Warlords.

But in your list the iconward got a warlord trait..

Thats the problem with the vigilus detachments, if you want the iconward and abominant warlord trait you cannot field a patriarch. Right? or am I missing something?

You sure can. Vigilus has a stratagem which allocates an additional Warlord Trait, similar to that of Broodcoven. By combining them, you can end up with 4 Total WT Across your army.

What Broodcoven strat are people referring to? Is that something from Vigilus? Sorry, I've been out of the game for about six month trying to get some classes out of the way, so I may have missed some things.