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Broodcoven allows you to allocate a Primus and Magus a Warlord Trait for 1cp, barring you have your primary warlord as a Patriarch.

 Astmeister wrote:
What is the problem with the sanctus sniper rifle and horrors etc.?
Sure they get another D3 mortal wounds after one successful wound, but this neither seems broken nor unintentional

You cause a wound which forces a perils, D3 models die since they are single wound, each model that dies as a result of a perils explodes for d6 more mortals since they have the psycher keyword.

Cephalobeard wrote:You sure can. Vigilus has a stratagem which allocates an additional Warlord Trait, similar to that of Broodcoven. By combining them, you can end up with 4 Total WT Across your army.

Ahh now I see, I'am going to use that! More reason for me to get 20 acolytes with 8 rock saws and use the +1 to wound stratagem to take down big targets.

EnTyme wrote:What Broodcoven strat are people referring to? Is that something from Vigilus? Sorry, I've been out of the game for about six month trying to get some classes out of the way, so I may have missed some things.

GSC Broodcoven stratagem gives the primus and magus additional WL-traits apart from your (warlord) patriarch.

 EnTyme wrote:
What Broodcoven strat are people referring to? Is that something from Vigilus? Sorry, I've been out of the game for about six month trying to get some classes out of the way, so I may have missed some things.

It's in the GSC codex.

It allows you to grant a primus and magus warlord traits if you have all three in your army and a patriarch as a warlord.

AKA "Sorry we didn't think to make the initial sprues separate so we can only sell these guys together in one box...."

The only thing killing me is I want to use a lot of the new characters but they start to really creep up in cost and end up crippling your list if you take too many.

 EnTyme wrote:
What Broodcoven strat are people referring to? Is that something from Vigilus? Sorry, I've been out of the game for about six month trying to get some classes out of the way, so I may have missed some things.

It's from the Codex. We got one.

Oh. Now I feel dumb. I haven't had time to read through all the strats. I mostly looked through the Creed-specific stuff to help me decide what I wanted to build.

 EnTyme wrote:
Oh. Now I feel dumb. I haven't had time to read through all the strats. I mostly looked through the Creed-specific stuff to help me decide what I wanted to build.

Everyone derps occasionally. But now you know.

Anyone noticed you can give a shotgun and a grenade launcher to one in 4 of your Jackal bikers. You can also give a shot gun to your quads so a squad of 8 bikes and 2 quads can put out a considerable amount of dakka.

20 shotgun shots
6 Heavy stubber shots(at least depending on your HW choice)
2d6 frag grenade shots

When they get in 6" you pop the grenade strat and you toss
5 demo charges instead of 10 of your shotgun shots.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Attached a copy of my current list.

5x10 and 1x9 Acolytes in a Twisted Helix Brigade w/ Broodsurge makes them terrific at handling low-medium threats, the Aberrants can tackle larger ones like Knights/etc, Large bike bomb capitalizes off of absurd levels of movement and can screen as a result, and 60 Neophytes with Webbers lets me show up and snag objectives from opponents via lying in wait, etc.

Feels tight. Lemme know what you think.

So I understand the webbers on the Neophytes that coming in from underground (love the choice btw), but what about the ones that start on the board? Do you plan on moving them up? I would have thought that if you aren't then maybe something with a bit more range? Or are you just relying on the Sentinels for the ranged fire support?

Well they are 1 point. So alternatively one unit can have 2 grenade launchers.

 Red Corsair wrote:
The only thing killing me is I want to use a lot of the new characters but they start to really creep up in cost and end up crippling your list if you take too many.

I am finding that as well, and I think a lot of a good GSC list is going to be learning when to stop with the buffs, because you can really buff the ever loving hell out of your stuff (especially melee stuff) but there's absolutely going to be an upper limit to its usefulness. Who cares if your abberrants can remove 100 wounds of vehicles if you can only ever get to charge them into 1-2 tanks and it costs you 1000 points and 10CP to have them do that.

How I'd rank them from most to least auto-include:

1) Nexos. There is zero reason not to have this guy. He is value incarnate with how much cp you'll have and his point cost.

2) Patriarch. With Broodcoven being a thing I think most lists will want to bring a patriarch, mostly because you need to get psychic powers on the board and he's nice compared to magus IMO because he's not in all that bad a situation if he has to just buff himself and leeroy mmjenkins something. Patriarch with Might and Onslaught I think is the best value HQ in GSC. As a sidebar I think you almost always want a familiar on this guy, because turn 2 you will not want to be giving up Onslaught but Might is also a must-have. Can't complain about the familiar's value if he one-shots a knight!

3) Clamavus. More to the nexos side of things where he's so cheap and his value so obvious you might as well throw him in. Protip: you plop him down next to stuff that you just deep struck that you want to charge. That's all he does. That's all he needs to do.

4) Kellermorph. What opposing army doesn't have characters that he can make his value back on? I think the only situation where I wouldn't like him is if I really had my turn 2 AND turn 3 high value deep strikes 100% planned out and there was just no space for him. Still think the relic is a noob trap though - you don't need a gun that makes your Turn 3 assassin overkill his target when you could have a sweet-ass "don't die" necklace on your patriarch.

5) Primus. Hard to argue with. Also provides a bit of flexibility if you're making more of a TAC list, as you could theoretically blip him and pop him up turn 1 near your shooty gunline units to give them wound rerolls vs a priority target - though that does waste most of what else he'd be accomplishing as a character so I think mostly his use is as a melee buffer.

6) Magus. He can't really Onslaught, so I think my preferred loadout for Maggie would be Mind Control/Mass Hypnosis with the latter being your normal spell and the former being an opportunistic situational high-value cast. Mass hyp is really important to have on the field to keep our high value melee guys from getting shredded but you don't want to waste a slot from a patriarch on it.

7) Iconward. Despite the usual inclination to go "cheapest HQ, must be best!" I think our other HQs bring so much value that finding a space for an iconward is a challenge. What do you want to give up - the Primus and with him the ability to use Broodcoven? One of our psychic power casts? in some oddball gunline lists where you actually have a screen I think his banner o' not dying might be handy, but I think all in all the best way to not get shot is either be in a truck or be actively ripping the face off the guy who wanted to shoot you.

8) abominable snowmonster. This guy now has one use: getting the most out of anointed throng. If you're going to be using a perfect ambush on your aberrants honestly I think you can skip him. But he is nice for using the 1CP strat and also bringing the warlord trait from Anointed throng.

9) Sanctus. Assuming you aren't tailoring vs Thousand Sons and being a real tool about it. Here's my main problem with him: His best ability requires you to use A Perfect Ambush on his scrawny ass instead of...I don't know, anything else. Aberrants. Acolytes. Purestrains. A Kellermorph. That strat is happening turn 2 and turn 3 almost every game in almost every list. The best situation for him would be I'm guessing in a shooty GSC list, where you don't have super vital charge units that MUST use the strat, and you also have an alphus on the field so you can stack their fire and down a character on the turn he shows up and double-taps.

10) Alphus. I think her big downfall is being super useful to the bad half of the GSC roster: the gunsy bits. Wow, I can make my cult leman russes! Or I can pay 10 points more and just take them as tank commanders in a supreme command detachment. The Value!

11) Biophagus. Strength is usually going to be meaningless on aberrants. Toughness is probably going to be meaningless. Attacks are good, but ultimately I think in most games your aberrants are going to blow straight through whatever they touch regardless and you'll end up wishing you brought less points of things to buff them into the overkill zone. Also, has a chance to go Dr. Zoidberg on one of your super important lumpy lads - I'd rather not take all the chances and instead just pay 1cp to give his best buff to them from the Annointed Throng stratagem.

12) Locus. (assuming heroic intervention nonsense gets FAQed). The locus doesn't really do anything that anyone else doesn't already do. Why do I need a moderately useful close combat character when I could have a moderately useful close combat character with psychic powers, or with an aura, or with any other benefit we already have on all our close combat characters?

in most meta (see: Relying heavily on deep striking melee) lists, I think your main lineup is going to be Patriarch, Primus, Nexos, Clammy, Magus, Keller, and maybe Abominant, in the Anointed Throng formation.

Webbers are just cheap, yeah. Most of my Neophytes will likely be fluctuating between reserves and returning to the shadows to pop up and snag objectives via lying in wait, etc.

Realistically if I had more flex points I'd be giving Stubbers to the back most squads, etc.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Red Corsair wrote:
The only thing killing me is I want to use a lot of the new characters but they start to really creep up in cost and end up crippling your list if you take too many.

9) Sanctus. Assuming you aren't tailoring vs Thousand Sons and being a real tool about it. Here's my main problem with him: His best ability requires you to use A Perfect Ambush on his scrawny ass instead of...I don't know, anything else. Aberrants. Acolytes. Purestrains. A Kellermorph. That strat is happening turn 2 and turn 3 almost every game in almost every list. The best situation for him would be I'm guessing in a shooty GSC list, where you don't have super vital charge units that MUST use the strat, and you also have an alphus on the field so you can stack their fire and down a character on the turn he shows up and double-taps.


12) Locus. (assuming heroic intervention nonsense gets FAQed). The locus doesn't really do anything that anyone else doesn't already do. Why do I need a moderately useful close combat character when I could have a moderately useful close combat character with psychic powers, or with an aura, or with any other benefit we already have on all our close combat characters?

in most meta (see: Relying heavily on deep striking melee) lists, I think your main lineup is going to be Patriarch, Primus, Nexos, Clammy, Magus, Keller, and maybe Abominant, in the Anointed Throng formation.

In response to your thoughts on the Sanctus and the Locus, I read and reread the strat for dbl shoot on reveal and guess what..... you can do it turn one. So a Sanctus can be bliped and in your deployment zone (preferably in a good firing position) and when placed on the board as a unit with cult ambush he can use the strat. None of our other units can effectively use the strat 1st turn so boom!! you now can use it with no opportunity cost to blast someone first turn. I plan to take 2 in most lists.

For the Locus he is only 40 pts. DS him with your more important characters and he not only can take wounds for them (Making that WL Patriarch killing machine keep trucking) but he is a 5+inv(4+ in bladed claw) 4 att always striking first S4 4 W 2+ hitting -3 rend little monster that it is no great loss if he dies but definitely can do some damage on his way out. I plan to take 2 in most lists.

The Locus is actually the unit I would consider putting the 4AE relic blade on if I was going to use it. Giving him 4 more attacks sound pretty good.

 Cephalobeard wrote:
Webbers are just cheap, yeah. Most of my Neophytes will likely be fluctuating between reserves and returning to the shadows to pop up and snag objectives via lying in wait, etc.

Realistically if I had more flex points I'd be giving Stubbers to the back most squads, etc.

Okay yeah stubbers was what I was thinking too for the squads being deployed!

Honestly I keep forgetting about Return to the Shadows lol.

the_scotsman wrote:
10) Alphus. I think her big downfall is being super useful to the bad half of the GSC roster: the gunsy bits. Wow, I can make my cult leman russes! Or I can pay 10 points more and just take them as tank commanders in a supreme command detachment. The Value!

Well I think the Alphus fits perfectly into the Battalion (or brigade) that houses your objective holding Neophytes. Should be really easy to split your shooty and stabby guys into separate detachments at anything over 1000 points.

Alphus + Neophytes + Rusted Claw I think is a good combination.

Definitely not the first HQ I'm reaching for, but definitely has its uses!

Have been playing with 60+ Neophytes since index release. Now with the codex they became a lot better!

I'm a big fan of the aesthetics of the Seismic Cannon so I have two squads with two Cannons each build. They didn't see much action in index times cause the gun was just... bad. Tried them for fun again against Orks (Evil Sunz) yesterday. They actually do stuff now! I just plopped my two squads on objectives in my deployment zone and was surprised that they actually managed to make their points back. I am considering moving them into the underground. So Turn 2 2x10 Neos w/ 2x SCs and 2x GLs (or Webbers for style points) pop up with a Gunslinger 9" away from the enemy screen. They don't even need a stratagem to move closer since their Autoguns etc. is quite comfortable at 9" away and now they don't even count as having moved when dropping in! And that's only 80 points per squad. Even if the enemy doesn't have a lot of infantry for them to target. Who cares? They can still be useful for board control. Plop 'em on an objective or screen your own lines with them.

I also quite like a squad of 10 with 2x Stubbers, 2x GLs. Only 60 points. I use them as a screen for my Russes or characters and to camp on objectives in my deployment zone.

Right now I run:

2x10 Neos w/ 2 Seismic Cannons, 2 GLs

2x10 Neos w/ 2 Lasers, 2 GLs (in Goliaths)

2x10 Neos w/ 2 Stubbers, 2 GLs

This is probably neither competitive nor the optimal loadout for them. But then again I don't max out my lists. I play mono Rusted Claw (Battalion + Brigade). Would be more competative by changing one of those into 4 armed emperor to get better charge chances off. But that seems odd to me that two Cults that thrive on different planets would suddenly be on the same battlefield. No doubt they would probably cooperate (as did Rusted Claw and Bladed Cog in the fluff) but eh, I am a fluff nazi and I painted mine in the RC colors.

What's your oppinions on the Rockgrinder? 120 points (you are taking the Incinerator, right?!) seems a bit much to me since you probably have to run at the very least two of them. Otherwise that lone Rockgrinder will never ever make it into combat.

Well annoying thing for me that I have one shotgun armed neophytes with flamers but now those are kinda poor(er) when they dropped points on grenade launcher and webber gun.

I mean I could get 2 grenade launchers for price of one flamer.

The current list I want to try out is 3 Battalions with 3 separate cultures.

2000pts

4 Armed Battalion
Patriarch (non WL)
Magus WL +3CP/reroll

Nexos
Kelermorph
Sanctus with Sniper rifle

4x Acolytes (5) base pistols

Bladed Cog Battalion
Primus WL: -1 to be hit, Relic: 3+inv/2+MW on charge
Jackal Alphus

Kelermorph
Sanctus with Sniper rifle

2x Acolytes (15) 5x Demo charge, 10x Hand flamer
Neophytes (11) all autoguns

Jackal Bikes 8+2 Quads 5x Demo/Shotgun, 2x H Stubber/Shotgun, 2x GL/Shotgun, 1xCult knife/Shotgun

Twisted Helix Battalion
Patriarch Real WL +1S/A, Relic +1A/T/W
Magus
Iconward Relic: Icon +1S in 6"

Purestrain genestealers (14)

2x Neophytes (20) each 2xGL, 18xAutogun
Neophytes (11) all Autoguns

After spending for my relics and starting strat I have 14+d3 CP
I have 24 Units (allowing max 12 underground+3 with strat) and 12 Blips +3 with strat.

I plan to Demo charge in Waves 1st turn Bikes (if possible), 2nd turn 1st 15 man Acolyte unit using 3" deploy strat, 3rd turn 2nd 15 man Acolyte unit (plan to use extra explosives to toss 5 demos each time)
1st turn free shot with strat from Sanctus sniper rifle.

I will aim to go first if I can. I think ceding 1st turn is a trap for GSC as I have seen so many battle reports where they try to be tricksy and they just end up taking it in the teeth for 2 full turns before they get to use their whole army.

Oh and I chose the bladed cog for my Acolyte bombs as it gives them all a 6+ Inv allowing them to possibly survive a little longer, Helix obvously for the Str buffs on the paterarch, and 4 armed for my 4 small acolytes to get long bomb assaults and for the Vect strat as well as the extra CP.

So how is everyone buffing their abominant into something absolutely stupid?

Was able to dish out 20 wounds against a t8 with just Twisted Helix, Might from Beyond and the Hammer relic.

Do you plan on pumping him full of Strength and Attacks? 3++ Save? -2 to damage at 1 min? Mixture of this?

Personally I think it's smarter to try and level up his defense, his strength is already stupid. Not sure though.

Dropped him entirely for a Patriarch.

More damage, on average, with less need to buff him

So I have quite a few autogun neophytes.. But I really like the aesthetics of the shotguns, are they any good and how would you play them? They want to be close but not caught in combat.. Also what specials to take? Webbers?

Any possibility that Brood Coven will be FAQed to require all 3 be in the same detachment? Or at least all have to have the same cult creed?

From a fluff standpoint that would make sense, and it might be too strong as is.

 OEMoose wrote:
Any possibility that Brood Coven will be FAQed to require all 3 be in the same detachment? Or at least all have to have the same cult creed?

From a fluff standpoint that would make sense, and it might be too strong as is.

I hope not I think it's kinda cool having a WL for 3 separate factions each with a WL trait.

I think it will absolutely happen. Makes no sense from a background perspective to have 3 different cult creed characters coming from the same brood coven.

My advice to folks is always to play by the conservative interpretation of the rules so you won't get used to something that a FAQ will easily remove.

After the FAQ in a week however, go nuts.

Keramory wrote:So how is everyone buffing their abominant into something absolutely stupid?

Was able to dish out 20 wounds against a t8 with just Twisted Helix, Might from Beyond and the Hammer relic.

Do you plan on pumping him full of Strength and Attacks? 3++ Save? -2 to damage at 1 min? Mixture of this?

Personally I think it's smarter to try and level up his defense, his strength is already stupid. Not sure though.

How did he manage that much damage? You just rolled lucky with D6 damage? I just don't like him as much anymore, you HAVE to take the Vigilus det in order to then take the relic warhammer so he doesn't hit on 4+. With only 3 attacks, he still has to get through saves, granted he can get extra hits on 6s. I think my favorite thing about him is the psychic debuff aura. I'm going to use my CPs to get the Aberrants into CC, so he'll be left out in the open, unless he makes a difficult charge. I love the model so I still want to take him, I just don't want to have to put so many buffs into a 120pt character ...

Cephalobeard wrote:Dropped him entirely for a Patriarch.

More damage, on average, with less need to buff him

Ugh, the Patriarch is good it is just frustrating he has to be the WL, he's always going to give up WL Kill.

Jamstrap wrote:So I have quite a few autogun neophytes.. But I really like the aesthetics of the shotguns, are they any good and how would you play them? They want to be close but not caught in combat.. Also what specials to take? Webbers?

I am planning on using a 20 man squad with the strat to pop up 3" out and just unleash S4 shots into enemy screens. If they survive, cool, if not, I won't be too upset about it, honestly, they can return to shadows or move onto OBJs, eat overwatch next turn, etc. Plus, they can keep the enemy pinned in somewhere unless they can fly. I love the webbers now, actually. Though I probably won't put them in a suicide squad like that. I kind of like the idea of webbers riding in a 10 man unit in a Goliath Truck.

I started GSC as a way to get a non-Imperium army on the cheap since I have like 5k+ points of Guard. So I think I'm going to have a guard BN of 2 Tempestor Primes and then a bunch of Scions with plasma. I'm going with Scions for my ranged AT here because, while I LOVE Russes, I won't be running any other vehicles so 3 tanks in this climate should just get rocked 1st turn without target saturation. Then I cult ambush 20 man squads of basic BBs into rapid fire range and FRFSRF to clear chaff and pave the way for the real threats. Then I'll probably use mortar squads and "long range" equipped neos to hold my backfield OBJs. Acolyte squads, GSC characters, and Aberrants then go in and do their thing to tough enemy units. My primary opponent does play Tau though, so the ability to cult ambush my infantry into his face is going to help obliterate all of his damn Fire Warriors. My Catachans can never survive long enough to ever get to OBJs, let alone his castle.
The ability to absolutely just bog down the board is going to be so good. I don't play ITC, so keep that in mind.

Ugh, the Patriarch is good it is just frustrating he has to be the WL, he's always going to give up WL Kill.

I played my first game with 2 Patriarchs and none of them died. My warlord was with my 10 aberrants who soaked an ungodly amount of fire and an acolyte squad/clavacus/iconward. The other one I dropped with 2 acolyte squads on a flank with no melee threat. If you make sure he is surrounded well he's not that easy to kill.

 Red Corsair wrote:
I think it will absolutely happen. Makes no sense from a background perspective to have 3 different cult creed characters coming from the same brood coven.

My advice to folks is always to play by the conservative interpretation of the rules so you won't get used to something that a FAQ will easily remove.

After the FAQ in a week however, go nuts.

Hey Corsair, can I get your opinion on what else you think might go down?

Timeshadow wrote:
The current list I want to try out is 3 Battalions with 3 separate cultures.

2000pts

4 Armed Battalion
Patriarch (non WL)
Magus WL +3CP/reroll

Nexos
Kelermorph
Sanctus with Sniper rifle

4x Acolytes (5) base pistols

Bladed Cog Battalion
Primus WL: -1 to be hit, Relic: 3+inv/2+MW on charge
Jackal Alphus

Kelermorph
Sanctus with Sniper rifle

2x Acolytes (15) 5x Demo charge, 10x Hand flamer
Neophytes (11) all autoguns

Jackal Bikes 8+2 Quads 5x Demo/Shotgun, 2x H Stubber/Shotgun, 2x GL/Shotgun, 1xCult knife/Shotgun

Twisted Helix Battalion
Patriarch Real WL +1S/A, Relic +1A/T/W
Magus
Iconward Relic: Icon +1S in 6"

Purestrain genestealers (14)

2x Neophytes (20) each 2xGL, 18xAutogun
Neophytes (11) all Autoguns

I'am sorry to say, but I think your armylist is a great example of 'character overdose' (red) and not enough damage output. One genestealer unit, a few small units of acolytes and one bike unit, cannot deal with knights, custodes bikes, heavy astra militarum shooting, Orks green tide with loota bomb.

Astra Militarum can move infantry forward (move move move..) and push back your ambush zone and outshoot you from that point on. Same goes for teleporting ork boyz.

In my opinion GSC need to do the following;

1: Get as much units in ambush and the rest need to be in cover / out of sight to deny as much first turn shooting. Rusted claw + cover / prepared positions makes them 3+ save + icon 6+ feel no pain.
2: I believe you can summon a unit (stratagem) first turn so you could remove the first enemy rank with a nice close combat unit (+d6 perfect ambush) or deploy outside 3 inch (prepared positions) and bring 20 acolyte handflamers (first blood!). For this reason I would always reserve reinforcement points.
3: second turn you need to decide if you only bring in a single / few units to remove the next layer or if its possible to break thru and get to the juicy enemy units with full force. Keep your eye on the price -> objectives, and be ready to sacrifice (almost) everything to keep the enemy in the ropes and walk away with the objective.

Must haves:

- reinforcement points that gives you different summoning options. You need the models for that though.
- At least one 'cult of the 4..' detachment because you need the +d3 command point WL trait and the option to block other stratagems.
- I would always bring one boosted tough close combat hammer to take care of the other enemies 'hammers'. So that would an abberant unit or 20 acolytes with 8 rock saws, or something.
- Personally I would stay away from shooting apart from cheap handflamers or cheap demolition charges. I got lot's of acolytes so that's easy for me to say.
- Don't go overboard on the (elite)characters.
- I prefer the 'deliverance broodsurge' detachment (vigilus) because it gives reroll charge (WL trait), combining this with a clamavus (+1 charge) and maybe even 'cult of the 4..' (+1 charge) and those acolytes are almost always getting into the fight. Primus + 8 rock saws + acolyte icon + deliverance broodsurge stratagem + extra S iconward or/and might from beyond: means 2+ to hit + reroll 1, and then 2+ to wound against toughness 8 (maybe even reroll 1 with primus). That messes up a knight paintjob for sure.

But thats easy for me to say..I got lots of acolytes. bought a few boxes and made a mold for the legs and torsos and bought a few arm bits. No way in hell I pay that much money for 5 models.

Quick question. If a unit is embarked in a Goliath Truck, and the truck is within 6" of a Jackal Alphus, would they still benefit from the Jackal Alphus Priority Target Sighted Ability?

Or is this one of those weird things where technically they are not on the table?

The reason I am asking is am trying to see if the Cult can "out Guard the Guard" and being able to run multiple trucks as gunboats is going to be a core of my list.