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Aberrants are great at tanking stomp damage.

Gordoape wrote:
Aberrants are great at tanking stomp damage.

That is a good point. Assuming C4AE and Primus dropping with them, will 7 of them with hammers in the special detachment reliably counter a Knight? Will 6?

I still feel like the obsession with killing knights is pretty myopic, we are a horde based deep striking army so basically already extremely well positioned against knights. The only knight that really kills hordes efficiently is the Gallant and you can seriously mess up its positioning.

But if you are set on a fast way to kill them I would probably look to Stephen Fore’s rock saw acolytes. I’m sure hammer aberrants can do it well too.

 vipoid wrote:
Random question - is the Locus any good?

If so, is it ever worth equipping them with artefacts (e.g. the Sword of the Four-Armed Emperor)?

Double attacks. Half damage on the charge, though, so against 2 wound models you only break even and eat up a precious relic.

babelfish wrote:
Those of you who have run Aberants, how many do you find gets the job done? I'm looking to run a saw-hybrid unit and a Aberant unit at 2k, with the goal of having both able to drop into a heavy target such as a knight. I've never ran them before and would like to hear what has worked for everybody.

If you got the acolytes then you cannot go wrong with 20 acolytes + 8 saws + icon in a broodsurge detachment. With a primus (who could also give one target reroll 1 to wound) and the broodsurge stratagem the saws hit on a 2+ with reroll 1 and also wound on a 2+ with reroll 1 (against a single target).

I always pick a patriarch with croughling because I need that 'might from beyond' to work. 20 models also gives you the opportunity to assault two juicy units deployed far apart from each other. You can divide the saws into 2x4 and hit two targets very hard. Very flexible because you can congaline 20 acolytes and pick two targets that are deployed far away from each other. With all the upgrades 4 saws could do 24 wounds to a knight. Add a few rending claws and you drop two knights in one go. You could also cast 'mass hypnosis' on one knight and hit that one with 3 saws. He will survive but that one probably hit's on a 6 next turn making him almost useless.

Abberants are more build to survive and everything you invest in them is to make sure the keep on bashing. For example; drop em at a flank with perfect ambush, kill stuff, lurk in the shadows for survival. Move + advance and cast psychic stimulus and assault the next target. Also with twisted helix the get an advance bonus and the got a nice reach. Keep an iconward close and with a stratagem the got a 4+ feel no pain with reroll 1.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
Random question - is the Locus any good?

If so, is it ever worth equipping them with artefacts (e.g. the Sword of the Four-Armed Emperor)?

Double attacks. Half damage on the charge, though, so against 2 wound models you only break even and eat up a precious relic.

Ah, good point. I'd forgotten that the extra damage was a property of the Locus Blades, rather than the Locus himself.

Gordoape wrote:
I still feel like the obsession with killing knights is pretty myopic, we are a horde based deep striking army so basically already extremely well positioned against knights. The only knight that really kills hordes efficiently is the Gallant and you can seriously mess up its positioning.

But if you are set on a fast way to kill them I would probably look to Stephen Fore’s rock saw acolytes. I’m sure hammer aberrants can do it well too.

I was saying this a while back but got frustrated with the focus on knights. Knights are easy IF you can get to them.

The army has the biggest issues with cheap screens since all our work gets done in assault, and none of our things have fly, which is compounded further that we need to rely on reserve deployment to be mobile. I've dabbled with transports but ours are incredibly easy to kill, luckily they are cheap (points) but unfortunately they are expensive as hell financially.

Any cheap screen will keep our heavy hitters back and IDC how many detachment buffs or charge bonuses you have because all they need to do is picket line and keep their damage dealers several inches back. Not hard to do when you have until turn 2. I have seen and had the most luck against players unfamiliar with GSC, as soon as they realize all they need to do is screen back and shoot the biggest threat for the next turn it becomes as really tough game for us. One I think we still do OK with in the right format, but as I have said before in ITC or killpoint heavy formats it's real tough.

And in before someone says mortars again... IDK maybe I am the exception but mortars kind of suck at screen removal. They are dirt cheap, easy to plug into any list and pay for themselves over the course of a game, but they suck hard at removing large units turn 1. It's even worse now that you max 3 teams after the FAQ, which also killed large BB squads getting orders (saw this one coming).

^100%! I will be bringing a vulture for this. Probably one won’t end up being enough. But killing infantry definitely strikes me as a bigger concern than killing heavy guns. Largely because, not only are screens an issue but infantry tends to be really good at killing us.

 Red Corsair wrote:

Any cheap screen will keep our heavy hitters back and IDC how many detachment buffs or charge bonuses you have because all they need to do is picket line and keep their damage dealers several inches back. Not hard to do when you have until turn 2. I have seen and had the most luck against players unfamiliar with GSC, as soon as they realize all they need to do is screen back and shoot the biggest threat for the next turn it becomes as really tough game for us. One I think we still do OK with in the right format, but as I have said before in ITC or killpoint heavy formats it's real tough..

This is the biggest challenge,yes. Mortars are only there because you need to deploy some units on the field and the just might as well contribute at removing screen. Then you got 4 other options;

- Second turn 'lying in wait' dropping acolytes with handflamers. I pick 20 with 15 handflamers and 5 demolition charges. The die the next turn but not before the remove a lot of screen and/or damage a vehicle/MC.
- second turn 'perfect ambush' 8 jackals + 2 incinerators. And shoot with perfect ambush, and shoot again in the shooting phase. I play rusted claw so I could move them away after the shoot, with the stratagem. If you pair them up with the hand flamers acolytes you could punch a whole in the bubblewrap and then drop the acolytes deeper in. this could help with the demolition charge or claiming objectives.
- first turn, I reserve 140 points for summoning and I could drop in 20 neophytes and start shooting. I would only do this if I needed the neophytes to push back the enemy line by blocking their movement.

- Option 4: get specific brood brothers anti infantry units. Vultures, wyverns etc..

You can turn 1 a kelermorph with telepathic summons, they’ll clear screens with the best of them.

 Badablack wrote:
You can turn 1 a kelermorph with telepathic summons, they’ll clear screens with the best of them.

Thats not a great deal. Against Toughness 3 you can get the same result with 15 broodbrother infantry (also 60p), Against toughness 4 I would invest more points and go full neophytes or a jackal unit with incinerator.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Edit: btw, have been reading about atalan jackals. Damn, a big unit with 12 bikes and 3 incinerators wolfquads could really hit that screen hard. With shotgun + autogun each regular bike shoots with 4x S3 attacks. Add the incinerators and with 'perfect ambush' you could really punch a hole and let the broodsurge detachment drop closer. DAMN IT! I didn't want to buy more stuff!!

shogun wrote:

Edit: btw, have been reading about atalan jackals. Damn, a big unit with 12 bikes and 3 incinerators wolfquads could really hit that screen hard. With shotgun + autogun each regular bike shoots with 4x S3 attacks. Add the incinerators and with 'perfect ambush' you could really punch a hole and let the broodsurge detachment drop closer. DAMN IT! I didn't want to buy more stuff!!

Only the squad leader gets the autogun, but even still a max squad puts out a fair amount of anti-infantry firepower. I've run squads of 8 bikes/2 quads as my vanguard chaff clearers and they have generally performed well against common fodder when combined with the Alphus's +1 to hit (which they get an extended range on).

I've been wanting to experiment with a small Vanguard module consisting of an Alphus, 2x medium-to-large squads of Jackals and a squad of 2x Ridgerunners to sling them up the board turn 1 ala Swarmlord. Just need to finish building the required models. Would make for an easy drop-in for an ambush centric list and the total point cost is slightly under the popular Swarmy + 'Stealer combo.

Those bikes take sooooo long to paint though....I just got through my first 10 bikers. I love those models and their use in game but damn...

Can someone summarize all of our specalized detachments. I don't have the Vigilius books and if I can avoid buying them I want to.

mightymconeshot wrote:
Can someone summarize all of our specalized detachments. I don't have the Vigilius books and if I can avoid buying them I want to.

There are 2. But if you want to use them in a game, you're going to want to get a copy of the rules.

I understand that. I am not trying to get around buying them, but is there just the two in the first Vigilus book? Or did we get more in the second one?

mightymconeshot wrote:
I understand that. I am not trying to get around buying them, but is there just the two in the first Vigilus book? Or did we get more in the second one?

Just the two in the first book.

The second book was exclusively Chaos.

mightymconeshot wrote:
Can someone summarize all of our specalized detachments. I don't have the Vigilius books and if I can avoid buying them I want to.

They're two very specific builds really.

Anointed Throng is Aberrant focused, lets you have an Abominant with a +1" charge range for aberrants within 6" WL trait and has strats that let you reroll 1s to wound or fight before dying. Does nothing to units in the detachment that aren't Aberrants or Abominants
Deliverance Broodsurge is a transport focused one, works on Aco/Neophytes, Goliath trucks (NOT Rock Grinders) and Iconwards. WL trait is reroll charges within 6" if you're one of the former. Strats for +1 to wound on the charge and disembark after moving (at risk).

As an add on to some other army, seems expensive now you don't need every last LD bonus (Broodsurge had one option to give LD bonus to units within 6" of warlord) to trigger infinite mental onslaught. It's 2CP chasing diminishing returns to get Cot4AE Aberrants +3 to charge rather than +2. Or to Rhino-rush with a unit of acolytes.

Worth getting if you're going heavily in that direction already though - Cot4AE level ambush to Twisted Helix monstrosities etc.

I'm kinda confused - as per the latest FAQ, can we no longer use voice of command to give our brood brothers squads from Astra Militarum Detachements orders?

Yep. Can’t put out 77 shots with your brood brothers blob anymore.

 Ruvich wrote:
I'm kinda confused - as per the latest FAQ, can we no longer use voice of command to give our brood brothers squads from Astra Militarum Detachements orders?

You can't issue orders to Brood Brothers squads taken from codex GSC (Brood Brothers or Brood Brothers Heavy Weapon Teams). Astra Militarum infantry with the Brood Brothers faction keyword are still eligible to receive orders.

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Ruvich wrote:
I'm kinda confused - as per the latest FAQ, can we no longer use voice of command to give our brood brothers squads from Astra Militarum Detachements orders?

You can't issue orders to Brood Brothers squads taken from codex GSC (Brood Brothers or Brood Brothers Heavy Weapon Teams). Astra Militarum infantry with the Brood Brothers faction keyword are still eligible to receive orders.

But only Company Commanders can order Infantry squads, and not the previously popular choice of Tempestor Primes.

 Ordana wrote:

 Strat_N8 wrote:

 Ruvich wrote:
I'm kinda confused - as per the latest FAQ, can we no longer use voice of command to give our brood brothers squads from Astra Militarum Detachements orders?

You can't issue orders to Brood Brothers squads taken from codex GSC (Brood Brothers or Brood Brothers Heavy Weapon Teams). Astra Militarum infantry with the Brood Brothers faction keyword are still eligible to receive orders.

But only Company Commanders can order Infantry squads, and not the previously popular choice of Tempestor Primes.

Tough News, guess I'll shed some lonely tears. Thank you all guys for the answers :/

Hi Guys, I'm mainly a chaos player but I'm taking my GSC out for a spin while painting the Black Legion... and I'm having a terrible time.
Basically the problem is as Red Corsair said: I got no issue killing big vehicles, custodes and such, the problem is when the adversary screens all the shooting units with elite troops like marines or necron warriors. I got to spend 3 cp for the perfect ambush, endure overwatch/auspex scan, the charge might still fail, you are not even sure you will kill the screen, the enemy will butcher the acolytes in their shooting... and even if you endure all of this you have to face units that can easily fall back and shoot and unchargable infantry on top of ruins. It seems to me that the mechanics of CC make it impossible for us to win against a skilled player. The obvious answer would be to employ some shooting, but Leman Russes and infantry do not deal meaningful damage in just a couple of turns.
I still win the majority of my games, but every match is so complicated, weary and frustrating.

Btw this is my best list, please tell me I'm making mistakes. I would love to have suggestions even just to simplify the playstyle.


++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [42 PL, 3CP, 686pts] ++
Rules: Brood Brothers

+ No Force Org Slot +

Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw

Detachment CP [5CP]

Specialist Detachment: Deliverance Broodsurge [-1CP]

+ HQ +

Acolyte Iconward [3 PL, -1CP, 53pts]: Icon of the Cult Ascendant, Stratagem: Field Commander, Warlord Trait: Augur of the Insurgent
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty

Primus [4 PL, 75pts]: Bonesword
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty

+ Troops +

Acolyte Hybrids [9 PL, 145pts]: Cult Icon
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
11x Acolyte Hybrid
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [9 PL, 145pts]: Cult Icon
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
11x Acolyte Hybrid
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Hybrid (Heavy Weapon): Autopistol, Heavy Rock Saw
Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

Acolyte Hybrids [3 PL, 35pts]: 4x Acolyte Hybrid
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Acolyte Leader: Autopistol, Cultist Knife

+ Elites +

Aberrants [14 PL, 233pts]
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Aberrant (Hammer): Heavy Power Hammer
7x Aberrant (Pick): 7x Power Pick
Aberrant Hypermorph (Improvised): Heavy Improvised Weapon

++ Battalion Detachment +5CP (Tyranids - Genestealer Cults) [44 PL, 7CP, 810pts] ++
Rules: Brood Brothers

+ No Force Org Slot +

Battle-forged CP [3CP]

Cult Creed: The Rusted Claw

Detachment CP [5CP]

Stratagem: Grandsire's Gifts [-1CP]: 1 Extra Sacred Relic

+ HQ +

Magus [4 PL, 80pts]: Power: Mass Hypnosis, Power: Mind Control
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty

Patriarch [7 PL, 125pts]: Amulet of the Voidwyrm, Power: Mental Onslaught, Power: Might From Beyond, Warlord, Warlord Trait: Born Survivor
Rules: Cult Ambush

+ Troops +

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher
Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser
Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher
Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser
Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

Neophyte Hybrids [4 PL, 65pts]: 7x Neophyte Hybrid
Rules: Cult Ambush, Unquestioning Loyalty
Neophyte Hybrid (Grenade): Grenade Launcher
Neophyte Hybrid (Mining): Mining Laser
Neophyte Leader: Autogun, Autopistol

+ Elites +

Nexos [3 PL, 50pts]

+ Heavy Support +

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Heavy Bolter, Battle Cannon, Lascannon
Rules: Cult Ambush

Cult Leman Russ [9 PL, 180pts]: 2x Heavy Bolter, Battle Cannon, Lascannon
Rules: Cult Ambush

Rusted Claws gives me an incredible survivability, that I really enjoy. Basically I try to remove screens and kill difficult stuff to manage in CC with Neophytes and LR, second turn I drop all the CC units, or leave one of the big Acolytes for the 3rd round sometimes.

You have enough anti-armor that you can probably afford to drop some of them to make room for more anti-infantry tools. The battlecannons on the Russes for instance could be replaced with Exterminator Autocannons (8 shots vs 2d6 shots) and the hull Lascannon exchanged for another Heavy Bolter, while the Neophytes could be reconfigured with Seismic Cannons or 2x Heavy Stubbers + an extra Grenade Launcher in place of the Mining Laser.

You might also want to consider swapping out the Nexos and some odds and ends to make room for an Alphus. Her accuracy boost is a huge asset for eliminating screens at range, wereas I have yet to have a Nexos make a meaningful contribution (regen nerf really hurts his utility).

I need battle cannons and lasers to kill marine screens and flying vehicles, but you right, now nexos will give me 3 cp at best, so maybe a clamavus could help...

 Strat_N8 wrote:
You have enough anti-armor that you can probably afford to drop some of them to make room for more anti-infantry tools. The battlecannons on the Russes for instance could be replaced with Exterminator Autocannons (8 shots vs 2d6 shots) and the hull Lascannon exchanged for another Heavy Bolter, while the Neophytes could be reconfigured with Seismic Cannons or 2x Heavy Stubbers + an extra Grenade Launcher in place of the Mining Laser.

You might also want to consider swapping out the Nexos and some odds and ends to make room for an Alphus. Her accuracy boost is a huge asset for eliminating screens at range, wereas I have yet to have a Nexos make a meaningful contribution (regen nerf really hurts his utility).

Cult has something real good to make exterminators worth it? Because for IG they are one of the worst russes out there. For anti infantry the punisher does lot better. And it's not like battle cannon is bad. -2 and S8 means wounding on 2+ vs T4 infantry.

DarklyDreaming wrote:I need battle cannons and lasers to kill marine screens and flying vehicles, but you right, now nexos will give me 3 cp at best, so maybe a clamavus could help...

That's fair. I'd still strongly suggest an Alphus. She is a huge boon to Neophyte offensive capabilities and is fairly mobile (no heavy penalty with Rusted Claw too).

tneva82 wrote:
Cult has something real good to make exterminators worth it? Because for IG they are one of the worst russes out there. For anti infantry the punisher does lot better. And it's not like battle cannon is bad. -2 and S8 means wounding on 2+ vs T4 infantry.

I was mostly just looking for areas he could swap something out for more anti-infantry without altering his list too much. GSC can't take a Punisher-in codex.

The difference between a 9" charge, even with a re-roll and an 8 or 7" charge is huge in terms of chances of making it.

Adding a Clamavus makes you go from a 56% to 71%, going for 4AE on top of it gets you to like 85%

You simply can't afford to fail those charges.

 DarklyDreaming wrote:
I need battle cannons and lasers to kill marine screens and flying vehicles, but you right, now nexos will give me 3 cp at best, so maybe a clamavus could help...

14 CP at best (1 per player turn for 7 turns, unless I've lost track of the nerf bat) but realistically 3-4 CP. I second the bike sniper recommendation, she will bring you a lot of utility.