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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/06 13:48:29
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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So, I've finally fallen to chaos!
Hi all, I've started putting together the 'Hammer' part of my Nurgle Chaos army, to be the counterpart to the 'Anvil' of my renegades and heretics - massed infantry, but of psyker, plenty of mortar and basilisk.
I'm put off going straight up death guard because I'm not really sure about all the weapons, and quite like the 'classic(?)' chaos marine range, like raptors, bikers etc. That said, I'd like these guys to work like Chaos marines aligned to Nurgle. Is this plausible, or am I gonna end up just painting them green? I'd rather not be too power game-y and have like a squad supposed to be world eaters, another emperor's children, and another with some totally unrelated marks or whatever to ultra-optimize everything. I am but a simple, pestilential, man.
I've already assembled some 30 marines (no weapons yet), I've got 5 termies, a lord, 5 raptors and a hellbrute waiting in the wings. My hope is to make them into something reasonably high-threat to do double duty as a distraction carnifex to draw fire away from my basilisks and mortars, but also to do a bit of threat elimination to protect the rest of the army.
Kind of crucially, I'm not necessarily looking to use EVERY model - I've just kinda bought what I thought was cool, so any concerns about the 'hammer' part being too many points vs my squishy and kinda useless traitor guard can kind of be assuaged.
At the moment, plasma still seems to be king of 8th? But I'm not entirely sure what to kit out the terminators and raptors with. Is more plasma just more good?
Also, for rank-and-file troops, I've gotten the impression that a bolter is better than the bolt pistol + chainsword combo?
As a side note, if anyone would like to offer tips on how to make this a punchy standalone too, that'd be cool. I imagine there are some grizzled warmasters on this site, with a wealth of corrupting knowledge.
Thanks for checking this out!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/07 01:12:09
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Hmmm, I don't want to ruin your new found hobby. Honestly though, normal chaos space marines aren't much of a hammer. Its why they are troop choices.
You could try playing them as chosen for more ranged and melee firepower... Having said that, if you want them to be a scary enough hammer, you need a Rhino to transport them up the board. A hammer unit isn't very scary if its shot off the board on turn 1.
Plague Marines might be resilient enough, and pack enough of a punch to be scary if you kit them out for melee. Needs melee loadouts though.
If you run 6 squads of 5 normal up the board, they are probably more of to claim objectives and be annoying rather than be a true hammer. Terminators aren't too bad as a hammer. You can equip them with all combi plasmas, make them mark of slanaash and have them shoot twice when they deep strike in. The new bolter discilpine rules will let them shoot double tap at 24 inches, and then with the cacophony strategem you can make them double tap yet again. on 5 Plasma terminators, thats 20 plasma gun shots. Having said that, if you are keeping your army nurgle themed, you won't be able to use the shoot twice strategem. For nurgle theme, going deathguard and making your terminators into blight terminators are probably the more competitive choice. But well, its up to you.
A lord is more for his aura, or as a counter charge unit. By himself, without a jumppack, he won't be to do much either. One hell brute will get shot off the board pretty quickly. You are gonna need more armour satuaration than that to ensure you at least get some hits in. Hellbrutes are cheap though (in points).
Chaos space marines alone aren't exactly an army which has a great win rate against many other armies. Maybe go for asthetic and fluffy reasons and just play for fluff. Don't try and get too competitive about winning. Other armies can bring far more cheese and competitive units than CSM can.
On the loadout question. If you are playing them as normal chaos space marines, stick to the bolter and just focus on objective claiming and shooting from afar.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/07 01:13:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/07 12:14:00
Subject: Re:Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Haha, if you think you were going to be the one to break me in to losing constantly at 40k, I'm afraid my Black Templars have got you beat by about 3 years, friend.
But thanks a lot for the input!
I like what I'm hearing about posessed and terminators. I've certainly got the bits to pull off both. Also, cheers for the boltgun suggestion! I'm never sure where I stand when it comes to standard armaments with a new army
I'll be honest, the Renegades and Heretics aren't much of an anvil either, I'm mostly going for fluff, and I prefer modelling and painting to anything else, it'd just be nice to have an army that's kinda fun to play, and packs a bit of a punch!
Thanks for looking!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/07 12:44:33
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crazed Spirit of the Defiler
Newcastle
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Homebrew chapter or one of the legions? I like the idea of Nurgle aligned Iron Warriors or Night Lords. Black Legion makes sense too
I think chaos terminators' most efficient shooting options are combi plasmas and combi bolters. Reaper autocannons aren't bad. I wouldn't take the flamer options because combi bolters do the same job cheaper and are now fully effective up to 24". The melee options are all fairly costed IMO
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Hydra Dominatus |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/07 16:23:19
Subject: Re:Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Errm, to be honest, I hadn't thought too much about chapters and legions - I guess it would be homebrew? I don't have a Chaos Marines Codex yet...
Of the traitor legions, I'm kind of fond of Iron Warriors, though I'm certainly curious about the upcoming Black Legion releases - That raptor lord is right up my street, even if his rules are kinda sucky at the minute.
Plasma Terminators seems like the route to go, based off what people are saying! Is it worth adding a lord or sorcerer with them?
What do people make of Havocks? I could easily grab some bodies from my mass of chaos marines and easily have the parts to kit them out with at least lascannons, heavy bolters, missile launchers or autocannons?
Also, raptors, warp talons - any good? Or just show pieces?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/07 16:30:06
Subject: Re:Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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posermcbogus wrote:Errm, to be honest, I hadn't thought too much about chapters and legions - I guess it would be homebrew? I don't have a Chaos Marines Codex yet...
Of the traitor legions, I'm kind of fond of Iron Warriors, though I'm certainly curious about the upcoming Black Legion releases - That raptor lord is right up my street, even if his rules are kinda sucky at the minute.
Plasma Terminators seems like the route to go, based off what people are saying! Is it worth adding a lord or sorcerer with them?
What do people make of Havocks? I could easily grab some bodies from my mass of chaos marines and easily have the parts to kit them out with at least lascannons, heavy bolters, missile launchers or autocannons?
Also, raptors, warp talons - any good? Or just show pieces?
So you finally decided to show back up to finish your fall to Chaos?
No worries:
I honestly would recomend you a non legion scheme and just play them as corresponding splinter warband with the trait you want.
That said:
Termis still suck, Chaos ones even more because spike tax of 5ppm on the base model. That said, mark of slaanesh and combi plas for doubleshooting can somewhat remidy that.
Havocs are an ok unit. I would recomend you though to pick 8 insteead of 5 since that doubles the ablative wounds for your heavy weapons. (Slaannesh is once again your friend with double shooting). Autocannons are reasonable, they got lowered in price in CA again and well 2 shots double into 4.
Raptors and warp talons are ehhhhh. That said if you intend to field warp talons field the corresponding Daemons to get access to Loci.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 14:08:54
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Any ideas for chaos lords? I've got a winged backpack from the possessed box, and it kinda suits one of my boys, do chaos lords have any uses? Automatically Appended Next Post: Also! Melta raptors? Yay or nay?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/15 14:23:55
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 15:12:14
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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posermcbogus wrote:Any ideas for chaos lords? I've got a winged backpack from the possessed box, and it kinda suits one of my boys, do chaos lords have any uses?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also! Melta raptors? Yay or nay?
MAY.
Friendly matches, they do ok, more competitive, nay to expensive ppm wise.
Chaos lord with jumppacks are decent. The right weapon (probably a beatstick) and mark make them fairly devastating.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 17:42:49
Subject: Re:Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Awesome, cheers very much NotOnline!
Anyone got any thoughts on termi chaos lords vs termi sorcerers?
Also, what do we reckon on plasma havoks vs plasma/combi-plasma chosen?
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/15 18:00:00
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 18:38:09
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Frenzied Berserker Terminator
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I would keep my CSM cheap because they will die just as easily as any other MEQ. Marks are just so you can use faction appropriate stratagems and Icons are too costly for what they really do. If I were to use CSMs in a hammer or flanking role I would definitely think about Rhinos to give them protection and mobility. Plus havoc launchers are pretty decent too. I would probably stick with plasmas as that gives them the most utility, but a strong case can be made for Heavy Bolters this edition. S5 will almost always wound on 5s since T10 is so rare and 3 shots apiece is okay even at 4+ to hit.
As far as a Lord goes, I personally love dual lightning claws, the +1A trait and WE tactics and relic for an ungodly amount of melee hatred. Rerolling charges, 1s to hit and rerolling failed wounds means a lot of saves. Unfortunately, no dakka. Another good combo for a termie lord is a combi-melta and powerfist. This allows you to threaten high wound stuff more reliably. You may want to have a look at relics too. I believe there are some generic ones in there that can be used by any Legion.
As for Sorc vs Lord? Why choose? You should have enough guys to kitbash one or the other right? If so it's your choice as to who gets the termie armour. Lords always get an invul but Sorcs need termie armour to gain one so there is that. Sorcerers can greatly increase a Lords abilities so you should be using both.
As for Havocs vs Chosen, I would take Havocs with Lascannons for the extra anti tank and threat. If you're going with plasma termies then you'll want some better AT and plasma chosen are kind of just more of the same thing the termies are doing but the termies can do melee better. Havocs are also Iron Warriors fluffy.
As for Raptors and Warptalons, they are really just a great screening unit. Warptalons may be better at CC nowadays but I used to run Raptors as a mobile screen/speed bump and they worked really well if you keep them cheap.
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Gets along better with animals... Go figure. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 21:01:04
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Well, I've already got one sorcerer, and based off what other peeps are saying, I'll probably grab a jumplord too (I'm about 5 backpacks short for all my dudes, but have some of those winged backpacks from the possessed box, and I've got a particularly gnarly dude in need of a backpack, and it suits him rather well, the fell gods might just smile upon him) I'm thinking of running the jumplord with the raptors, and the termi sorcerer/lord with the plas terminators.
The rest of the army I guess would take objectives, and throw themselves at any high-power units making their way to my renegade infantry buffer zone (en route to the big guns)
How do you run your raptors? I feel like I should playtest my renegades to see what I'm missing, before committing to melta, but (though I've got an abundance of imperium bits) I'm somewhat running low on bits, so a squad that can deepstrike to pop tanks or high armor stuff. But if they're a screening unit, do I just want chainswords and boltpistols?
On the topic, does any unit do well with bolt pistols and chainswords? I've got my hands on a few older metal sculpts, and I kinda want to give them the weapon-in-each-hand loadout to show off their details...
Again, I'm curious as to what melee weapons people give to terminators? I'm probably able to give 'em all power axes, but are fists better? Again, thanks to other projects, I've no terrible shortage of bits...
For MSU, what works well? If I'm keeping 'em cheap, just straight bolters? And how does a squad of lascannon havocs and a squad of HB havocs sound? In my renegades army, I've a couple of autocannons, and 3 stubbers, along with 3 3x mortar squads and (so far, might get more if my hatred of painting tanks doesn't boil my insides) a basilisk
Cheers guys, feel a bit less terrified!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/15 22:54:43
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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posermcbogus wrote:Well, I've already got one sorcerer, and based off what other peeps are saying, I'll probably grab a jumplord too (I'm about 5 backpacks short for all my dudes, but have some of those winged backpacks from the possessed box, and I've got a particularly gnarly dude in need of a backpack, and it suits him rather well, the fell gods might just smile upon him) I'm thinking of running the jumplord with the raptors, and the termi sorcerer/lord with the plas terminators.
The rest of the army I guess would take objectives, and throw themselves at any high-power units making their way to my renegade infantry buffer zone (en route to the big guns)
How do you run your raptors? I feel like I should playtest my renegades to see what I'm missing, before committing to melta, but (though I've got an abundance of imperium bits) I'm somewhat running low on bits, so a squad that can deepstrike to pop tanks or high armor stuff. But if they're a screening unit, do I just want chainswords and boltpistols?
On the topic, does any unit do well with bolt pistols and chainswords? I've got my hands on a few older metal sculpts, and I kinda want to give them the weapon-in-each-hand loadout to show off their details...
Again, I'm curious as to what melee weapons people give to terminators? I'm probably able to give 'em all power axes, but are fists better? Again, thanks to other projects, I've no terrible shortage of bits...
For MSU, what works well? If I'm keeping 'em cheap, just straight bolters? And how does a squad of lascannon havocs and a squad of HB havocs sound? In my renegades army, I've a couple of autocannons, and 3 stubbers, along with 3 3x mortar squads and (so far, might get more if my hatred of painting tanks doesn't boil my insides) a basilisk
Cheers guys, feel a bit less terrified!
Frankly msu marines with a autocannon is imo what i like most.
With the new beta ruling that squad can put out a surprising ammount of haeat and is dangerous to all things thanks to the autocannon.
I am less a fan of the Lascannons, they are not scalling aswell as autocannons or other Multi shot weapons with the cacophony stratagem which you will use.
On the other hand you can save cp with Lascannons because you don't need VotLW.
The termies i do run atm (that beautiful rust +green one i have) I run as cheap as possible melee weapon wise and just bought the reaper autocannon.
Chainsword and boltpistol are for regular marines outperformed by the bolter and berzerker take axes + chainsword.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/17 11:25:34
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Warp-Screaming Noise Marine
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I honestly would mix the HB and Las havocs just so when they catch all the bullets that units that spit out that sort of fire power that havocs typically do, you choose what weapons you still have. You get to choose between the HB and lascannon! And you still get all the same the models on the board at the start as you did having a dedicated HB and a dedicated Lascannon squad. Or even mixing missile launchers and lascannons simply for the anti-vehicle and anti-infantry in the same squad. The range on all those heavy weapons and mixed weapons rules rules in 8th allow for that sort of diversity in a unit to not gimp you as well. I haven’t had much opportunity to test this idea of mine so if you try it out and it works let me know. Automatically Appended Next Post: Also with the CSM, have you considered running them as chosen? For 1 PPM you get access to more special weapons, CCW options, and the same heavy weapon option, but with +1 attack on the profile and +1 leadership. If you slap combi bolters on them you basically get poor man’s noisey marines. Especially with new Bolter rules. I feel like you basically get what marines should have been, only not in the troop block. As for the raptors, plasma is typically considered the better option if not only because you get the full use of it the turn they drop from deep strike, and the difference in damage output between melta and plasma is pretty negligible on tougher targets and slants significantly in favor of plasma on anything else. Still, if you absolutely must delete a tank from the board, deepstriking your melta raptors behind LOS blocking terrain, and jump out to unload them on a tank, you still need to deal with all the chaff, chances being... stick to plasma. Bikes with 14” move, and combibolters plus a special weapon (champion combi included) for 3 models a squad, it’s cheaper per shot, and 2 wounds a model with T5, you get something that takes a lot more commitment from lasgun toting loyalist scum or bolter shots or any other D1 or S5 and below weapon in the meta (heavy bolters...) and once they are on the board, more maneuverable than raptors... which makes them better platforms for melta. Especially since antichaff is built into their profile with the combibolters. Basically autocannon profiles are the only thing that hurts bikes more than they hurt raptors. (Honestly, who is shooting s8+ weapons at bikes?)
As for terminators, I simply refuse to run them without a reaper autocannon due to the rule of cool and because it is way better than a heavy bolter. The better CQC weapons need to find their way on the champion before anyone else. I personally like kitting my terminators out with power axes, a reaper, and combi-plas, with a chainfist on the champion. If I have points left over, I like putting fists on whoever is left. That being said, terminators in my oppinion are still a pretty crappy unit, even marked slaanesh with all combiplas so they can spit out 20 plasma shots at 12 inches... or 18 plasma and 8 reaper shots at s7 ap-1 shots at 12 inches in one turn due to endless cacophony... it’s a one trick pony I play because I love the lore and the models. Long story short, play what you want on the table, put on the table what you want to paint, and curse the consequences because it’s better to watch what you love get put on a table and promptly removed than it is to put what you don’t on the table and watch it not die for many turns. Bikes are better than raptors but bikes don’t deepstrike, terminators should be specialized but also just plain better but they deepstrike, and have access to awesome close combat weapons, chosen can be anything but troops that normal chaos tac squads can be except they are just plain better, and have fun! Automatically Appended Next Post: Chosen also get a free chainsword so it’s 3 attacks and a bolter. And a bolt pistol. The only downside is that if you want troops you’ll have to use cultists or cult marines of an appropriate legion.
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2019/02/17 18:08:12
Beware of the man who works hard to learn something, learns it, and finds himself no wiser than before. -Kurt Vonnegut |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/19 19:31:36
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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Based on the list the models that you currently have, I'd seriously consider going Alpha Legion with Nurgle allegiance (though, full disclosure, I play Alpha Legion so this may come off as a little biased). Chaos Marines aren't that resilient, but with the -1 to hit bonus and plonking them in cover they'll be a little more survivable.
Also, based solely on the models you currently own, here's what I would do for your first army:
HQ
1) Chaos Lord with the Possessed winged backpack - this guy can now be a Chaos Lord with Jump Pack and accompany your Raptors. You can also get away with just arming him with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword. Daemon Shell stratagem is hilarious when it works and if you are going Alpha Legion, the Chainsword can become the Blade of Hydra (around 100 points)
2) Chaos Lord or Chaos Sorcerer in Terminator Armour - you'd need to pick one up, but this would be a good babysitter for your deepstriking Termies. (around 110 to 120 points)
ELITES
1) Terminators - As many combi-meltas as you can swing. I don't know how you feel about converting bitz, but there is no combi-plasma terminator weapon on the sprue so the combi-melta is your most hard hitting option here at the moment (around 200 points)
TROOPS
1) I'd put your 30 marines in 3 squads of 10. Double up on Plasma for one, double up on the heavy bolter for the other (both weapons come with the chaos marine box) and the other 10 is your call (you could even split up 5 for plasma and 5 for heavy bolter). Combined with the Alpha Legion trait, they can contribute some long-range firepower (around 500 points)
FAST ATTTACK
1) Plasma over Melta for your Raptors if you have the bits, but if not, keep them as cheap as you can. (around 150 points)
In theory, that should be about 1000 points worth of marines that should give you a relatively fluffy list. It won't be the most competitive, but it'll be functional. If you're strapped for points, I would actually swap out the Termies for your Helbrute. It can serve as a good distraction carnifex at lower point games.
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(Behemoth - 2,000 Points Painted)
(Alpha Legion - 2,000 Points Painted)
- Favourite Opponent - Local RTT Dec. 2018
(Vior'la Sept - 1,000 Points Painted)
- Medusa V Veterans, Konor Veterans
(Steel Legion - 1,000 Points Painted)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/19 20:24:10
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Dakka Veteran
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The Chaos hammers are Daemon Princess and flying sorc.
If you are going to use msu of 5 man chaos marines then possibly only kit them with 1 plasma gun and if you have extra points laying around, upgrade the champ's to have a combi plasma. This way they are extra annoying. Just run around and plink a plasma shot. Orchewer, said you can have double heavy on a 10 man squad but i dont think that is correct. Irc, it is 1 special and 1 heavy for reaching 10 men. Did they change that rule to allow a heavy weapon in a 5 man squad?
Convert your terminators into obliterators by greenstuffing some of their extra arms to have loads of misc guns. The problem with combi melta gun termi is that you ds 9" away from enemies so that is 1" too far away to use the melta rule.
Dont ever bother with warp talons. Raptors are nice for deepstriking too. But their speed and mov makes you just want to start with them on the board. Its a toss up between melta and plasma because you got the 12" mov to catch something 8" melta or you play it say and shoot 24" or rapid fire 12" with plasma.
Helbrutes are cheap now. They can be double rifle dreads since they could go crazy n shoot 2x nearest visible enemy, or stick that scourge on them to protect you rh gunline while plinking 1 gun arm.
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In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/19 21:24:28
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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CadianGateTroll wrote:The Chaos hammers are Daemon Princess and flying sorc.
If you are going to use msu of 5 man chaos marines then possibly only kit them with 1 plasma gun and if you have extra points laying around, upgrade the champ's to have a combi plasma. This way they are extra annoying. Just run around and plink a plasma shot. Orchewer, said you can have double heavy on a 10 man squad but i dont think that is correct. Irc, it is 1 special and 1 heavy for reaching 10 men. Did they change that rule to allow a heavy weapon in a 5 man squad?
+1 to adding a Daemon Prince to your HQ and to the combi-plasma for the champions. Plasma pistol and bolter bits can make a serviceable conversion.
Just double checked the codex and Chaos Marines can indeed double up on specials and heavy weapons in a 10-man squad. They can also do the one of each option. It's about the only advantage we have over our loyalist counterparts. That and DTTFE
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(Behemoth - 2,000 Points Painted)
(Alpha Legion - 2,000 Points Painted)
- Favourite Opponent - Local RTT Dec. 2018
(Vior'la Sept - 1,000 Points Painted)
- Medusa V Veterans, Konor Veterans
(Steel Legion - 1,000 Points Painted)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/20 08:41:16
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Dakka Veteran
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Is there any way you could buy buy some burlap fabric to create tiny robes and hoods to convert your chaos marines into cultists?
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In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/20 08:49:18
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Combat Jumping Rasyat
East of England
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I think in March CSM are going to get a few buffs, when their new sculpts drop. I wouldn't write them off yet! +1 for going alpha legion/nurgle. My friend plays them and they have tricks.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/20 09:54:28
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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CadianGateTroll wrote:Is there any way you could buy buy some burlap fabric to create tiny robes and hoods to convert your chaos marines into cultists?
Probably, altough i think Green stuff or a mesh that you fill with greenstuff will probably be easier to use for modification. Alternatively ask an admech player for some of the skitarri heads with hoods and masks. Automatically Appended Next Post: grouchoben wrote:I think in March CSM are going to get a few buffs, when their new sculpts drop. I wouldn't write them off yet! +1 for going alpha legion/nurgle. My friend plays them and they have tricks.
This is something to consider, there is soon a new release, i'd say wait before you pull the trigger.
Also it seems that we get plastic havocs finally.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/20 09:56:45
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/20 12:27:21
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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CadianGateTroll wrote:Is there any way you could buy buy some burlap fabric to create tiny robes and hoods to convert your chaos marines into cultists?
Haha, I've already got plenty of those, though I do get what you mean - cultists seem to be the best troop choice!
grouchoben wrote:I think in March CSM are going to get a few buffs, when their new sculpts drop. I wouldn't write them off yet! +1 for going alpha legion/nurgle. My friend plays them and they have tricks.
This is something to consider, there is soon a new release, i'd say wait before you pull the trigger.
Also it seems that we get plastic havocs finally.
Hmm, holding fire might actually be my only option - I've got a sprained wrist atm (watch out for cyclists, please!) - so I can't really hobby much beyond farting about on dakka
orchewer wrote: CadianGateTroll wrote:The Chaos hammers are Daemon Princess and flying sorc.
If you are going to use msu of 5 man chaos marines then possibly only kit them with 1 plasma gun and if you have extra points laying around, upgrade the champ's to have a combi plasma. This way they are extra annoying. Just run around and plink a plasma shot. Orchewer, said you can have double heavy on a 10 man squad but i dont think that is correct. Irc, it is 1 special and 1 heavy for reaching 10 men. Did they change that rule to allow a heavy weapon in a 5 man squad?
+1 to adding a Daemon Prince to your HQ and to the combi-plasma for the champions. Plasma pistol and bolter bits can make a serviceable conversion.
Just double checked the codex and Chaos Marines can indeed double up on specials and heavy weapons in a 10-man squad. They can also do the one of each option. It's about the only advantage we have over our loyalist counterparts. That and DTTFE
Ooh, that double heavy weapon is interesting! Might have to have a think about that 'un! I certainly like the daemon prince models, so that might be a future grab!
orchewer wrote:Based on the list the models that you currently have, I'd seriously consider going Alpha Legion with Nurgle allegiance (though, full disclosure, I play Alpha Legion so this may come off as a little biased). Chaos Marines aren't that resilient, but with the -1 to hit bonus and plonking them in cover they'll be a little more survivable.
Also, based solely on the models you currently own, here's what I would do for your first army:
HQ
1) Chaos Lord with the Possessed winged backpack - this guy can now be a Chaos Lord with Jump Pack and accompany your Raptors. You can also get away with just arming him with Bolt Pistol and Chainsword. Daemon Shell stratagem is hilarious when it works and if you are going Alpha Legion, the Chainsword can become the Blade of Hydra (around 100 points)
2) Chaos Lord or Chaos Sorcerer in Terminator Armour - you'd need to pick one up, but this would be a good babysitter for your deepstriking Termies. (around 110 to 120 points)
ELITES
1) Terminators - As many combi-meltas as you can swing. I don't know how you feel about converting bitz, but there is no combi-plasma terminator weapon on the sprue so the combi-melta is your most hard hitting option here at the moment (around 200 points)
TROOPS
1) I'd put your 30 marines in 3 squads of 10. Double up on Plasma for one, double up on the heavy bolter for the other (both weapons come with the chaos marine box) and the other 10 is your call (you could even split up 5 for plasma and 5 for heavy bolter). Combined with the Alpha Legion trait, they can contribute some long-range firepower (around 500 points)
FAST ATTTACK
1) Plasma over Melta for your Raptors if you have the bits, but if not, keep them as cheap as you can. (around 150 points)
In theory, that should be about 1000 points worth of marines that should give you a relatively fluffy list. It won't be the most competitive, but it'll be functional. If you're strapped for points, I would actually swap out the Termies for your Helbrute. It can serve as a good distraction carnifex at lower point games.
Awesome! The more I think about alpha legion, the more I like it - spreading disease covertly, and corrupting my traitor guard is very appealing! I'm happy to convert the termies, though it might leave me a little short-handed for the raptors. I'll manage.
What would you recommend for the distraction hellbrutefex? Again, I'm familiar with anything it shares with loyalists, but there's a bunch of stuff on those sprues that I don't recognize at all.
Massive thank you for all the help thus far guys, I certainly feel less bewildered and out of my depth after all of your wicked, void-tainted wisdom!
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/20 12:28:31
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/20 12:32:50
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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What would you recommend for the distraction hellbrutefex? Again, I'm familiar with anything it shares with loyalists, but there's a bunch of stuff on those sprues that I don't recognize at all.
There's a bunch of tentacles right, a fist tentacle brute is a terrible effective thing for relative low pts in melee. Alternative there is a double barreled autocannon and a Missile launcher, that woud be the dakka configuration, (consider the hellbrute doublefire stratagem) it is also a relatively cheap version of the hellbrute.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/20 12:33:09
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/20 18:21:35
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Tough Tyrant Guard
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If you wanted to go true distraction carnifex with your Helbrute, then there's something to be said about dual fists (with maybe a heavy flamer in there if you have the points). Since most of your army is going to be mid-range, then a Helbrute cruising up main street will synergise well with everything and force your opponent to think about taking it down and ignoring your objective campers or risk a Helbrute hitting his lines by Turn 2 (with lucky advance and charge rolls).
Alternatively, you could kit out your Helbrute for long-ranged firepower, which your army doesn't have a lot of. Lascannon and Missile Launcher can be built out of the kit and I think dual Reaper Autocannon is legal, but you'd have to go bitz hunting for that build. However, the downside to this is that your Helbrute would be the only long-range model in your army and your opponent could easily take it out with a dedicated round of shooting. I'm more of a "eggs in one basket" kinda guy so I'd recommend a close-combat Helbrute.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/20 18:22:29
(Behemoth - 2,000 Points Painted)
(Alpha Legion - 2,000 Points Painted)
- Favourite Opponent - Local RTT Dec. 2018
(Vior'la Sept - 1,000 Points Painted)
- Medusa V Veterans, Konor Veterans
(Steel Legion - 1,000 Points Painted)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/21 04:16:41
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Dakka Veteran
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If you truly can use a 5 man csm squad with 1 heavy then what would be the best choice?
Autocannon has always been my favorite.
In previous editions, i used 3 squads of havocs each carrying 4 autocannons. I cant recommend that now because marines just die so easily. I really wish i could have a 5 man squad of havocs, the 4 heavy weapons, and 5-10 cultist as meat shields.
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In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/21 12:46:42
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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The thing that would put me off too many heavy weapons would be the penalty to shooting after moving - in an ideal world, my basilisks and mortars would be doing the more ranged armor/MEQ killing. Ideally I'd keep the CSM as mobile as possible?
That said, I suppose it would be very easy to just sling them in with my renegade schmucks and use them as a big old meat shield, if I were to bring some more static weapons to pack a bit of counter-punch.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/21 14:03:45
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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posermcbogus wrote:The thing that would put me off too many heavy weapons would be the penalty to shooting after moving - in an ideal world, my basilisks and mortars would be doing the more ranged armor/ MEQ killing. Ideally I'd keep the CSM as mobile as possible?
That said, I suppose it would be very easy to just sling them in with my renegade schmucks and use them as a big old meat shield, if I were to bring some more static weapons to pack a bit of counter-punch.
Question, why not run a HS detachment instead of another battalion, you are going to field Renegades, if you run into issues with CP that would be a sign that you waste them to fast.
Make 8 man Havoc squads so as to have 3 ablative wounds before your champ and havocs with actual guns bite the dust.
Alternatively, a lord with jumpack and 9 obliterators might be a hammer you want to field, ofcourse all of these slaanesh AL.
Alternatively make a vanguad detachment and throw mutilators at faces.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 14:04:42
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/21 19:00:40
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Dakka Veteran
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Are mutilators bad?
Lols, i remember asking for csm advice and someone told me to just play loyalist for the 7th ed gladius decurion free transports.
Perhaps you could build a bare minimum brigade from rh to get 12cp or build 2 cheap battallions from rh's disloyal 32 twice.
I personally would do a rh brigade for 12cp, a csm spearhead with 3 maulerfiends and your 30 csm havocs, and a supreme command to squeeze in 5 daemon prince like 3 regular, 2 of the special named ones. That maybe over 2k which is not what we are trying to do.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/02/21 19:28:38
In the Grimdark future of DerpHammer40k, there are only dank memes! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/02/21 21:18:51
Subject: Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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The Dread Evil Lord Varlak
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CadianGateTroll wrote:Are mutilators bad?
Lols, i remember asking for csm advice and someone told me to just play loyalist for the 7th ed gladius decurion free transports.
Perhaps you could build a bare minimum brigade from rh to get 12cp or build 2 cheap battallions from rh's disloyal 32 twice.
I personally would do a rh brigade for 12cp, a csm spearhead with 3 maulerfiends and your 30 csm havocs, and a supreme command to squeeze in 5 daemon prince like 3 regular, 2 of the special named ones. That maybe over 2k which is not what we are trying to do.
Got quite the price cut Mutilators that is.
Btw op looks for decent army not comp one.
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https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page
A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units."
Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?"
Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?"
GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!"
Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/03/11 19:45:51
Subject: Re:Starting out with Chaos Marines - looking for basic advice for loadouts!
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Crushing Black Templar Crusader Pilot
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Alrighty fellas, I've finally gotten chopping. The plasma termis are coming along much more smoothly than I thought they would (thanks to my picky ass and never wanting to use the plastic plasmaguns from the heresy-era marine kits because they clash with my 41st milennium plastic plasma guns already in the army) and to my delight hardly look like they need any greenstuff at all! They've all got power axes, for those curious, and one's got an autocannon.
I'm about to do the terminator character, and I'm thinking of just diving in with a lord to use the Lord of Chaos special rule, as it seems pretty useful for a close-range unit. I'm tempted by double lightning claws (rule of cool!), but is there a more reliably punchy way of kitting him out? (My inner warpsmith is toying with trying to copy the talon of horus, but as a combi-plasma, just to keep my options open... (though illegal)) - I've certainly got enough bits to cobble together just about any wargear I think he can have?
Also! Raptors! While I might still entertain melta, I'm leaning more towards plasma. However, if they really are as unreliable as people seem to be suggesting (pls bear in mind I want to ideally field them alongside my jumplord, points permitting), I'm thinking about just running them all barebones for a bit of melee nonsense. Is this a waste of a jumplord? Also, what do folks make of the plasma pistol build? Is this just a points sink?
Cheers for the input, fellas, you're all doing the Dark Gods' work!
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