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Universal trait not limited to fighting the Imperium? I think with 8th edition this was a no brainer in terms of balance, the only army trait that isn't universal, it obviously isn't even close to being OP, it's a fairly balanced ability but heretic astartes shouldn't have a trait that works only against a single faction. Thoughts?

brazenjaw wrote:
Universal trait not limited to fighting the Imperium? I think with 8th edition this was a no brainer in terms of balance, the only army trait that isn't universal, it obviously isn't even close to being OP, it's a fairly balanced ability but heretic astartes shouldn't have a trait that works only against a single faction. Thoughts?

Army traits are the legion traits.

It's true that ATSKNF is more general, that said i agree that death should either also become universal or just be replaced.

I don't think it would break the faction to make it a universal rule. I'm on board with this.

brazenjaw wrote:
Universal trait not limited to fighting the Imperium? I think with 8th edition this was a no brainer in terms of balance, the only army trait that isn't universal, it obviously isn't even close to being OP, it's a fairly balanced ability but heretic astartes shouldn't have a trait that works only against a single faction. Thoughts?

Craftworld Eldar would like to have a word with you. Also multiple Deathwatch Stratagems. Also Grey Knights. Also Daemons Stratagems. And while Index only, Tyrannic War Veterans.

When your premise is so entirely flawed from the outset, it hampers the ability of your suggestions to be taken seriously?

DttFE is silly bit of fluff-nonsense that isn't even factored into the points cost of the models because it's so utterly inconsequential.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

brazenjaw wrote:
Universal trait not limited to fighting the Imperium? I think with 8th edition this was a no brainer in terms of balance, the only army trait that isn't universal, it obviously isn't even close to being OP, it's a fairly balanced ability but heretic astartes shouldn't have a trait that works only against a single faction. Thoughts?

Craftworld Eldar would like to have a word with you. Also multiple Deathwatch Stratagems. Also Grey Knights. Also Daemons Stratagems. And while Index only, Tyrannic War Veterans.

When your premise is so entirely flawed from the outset, it hampers the ability of your suggestions to be taken seriously?

DttFE is silly bit of fluff-nonsense that isn't even factored into the points cost of the models because it's so utterly inconsequential.

Eldar v slaanesh shenanigans can die in the same fire, along with daemons v grey knights (though a rebalance might be better). Death watch have a strat for every occasion so its not the same.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

DttFE is silly bit of fluff-nonsense that isn't even factored into the points cost of the models because it's so utterly inconsequential.

That would make sense except that they’re priced the same as loyalist space marines who get ATSKNF. If you dropped a point for that I would agree. Granted that wouldn’t help chaos space marines much since MEQ is in such a rough shape right now.

ATSKNF is even more useless than DttFE.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
ATSKNF is even more useless than DttFE.

I wouldn't say more useless, but it has incredibly questionable value overall outside super niche situations.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
ATSKNF is even more useless than DttFE.

With ATSKNF, marine MSU are virtually untouchable by moral. Noting is more frustrating than watching a lone marine score victory points when said marine should have run in the moral phase.

Exploding sixes are even less reliable, they don’t work with powerfists, and most units won’t even care about them. One extra S4 attack is borderline insignificant. Most units that do benefit consistently are already throwing out an obscene number of attacks anyways.