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I am not big on AoS/Endtimes lore, but am aware that the great horned rat became a 'joke' of a chaos greater being (in the eyes of the others).

What I know:

Now, skaven have a habit of appearing in the strangest places and using wherever to live and hide. They praise warpstone for its power and flesh manipulation. However, I do not know what has happened in regards to warpstone since everything blew up.

Tzeentch can see many possibilities (unsure if all?) of what can happen over time, and use that to their favour in battle and conspiring etc.



My question is, would it have been possible for a clan of skaven to have accidentally (through either appearing unexpectedly by tzeentch and turning the tides in Tz's favour, or by being a strand of reality that Tz realised having skaven on his side would turn the tide), and as a result having the clan see his magic power and taking this as their 'warpstone' replacement in power?


Im looking into this to possibly start a modded style army of a Tzeentch clan (especially if eshin dont get revamped!! Some of those models are 20+ years old!)

Thanks

Steel

Generally speaking a lot of lore is quite hazy in many areas which generally allows players to do what they want. AoS being set in the Mortal Realmworlds means that there's a huge amount of possibilities for doing your own thing and having it fit.

Skaven already ally with Nurgle through Skaven Pestilens; however in all the encounters I've read in the early Realm Wars novels suggest that its an alliance rather than a corruption or taking over. That both forces retain their individual god.


That said Skaven are creatures of chaos and there's no reason that Tzeentch couldn't corrupt a segment of them that I'm aware of. Hidden and kept in secret they could be converted and worship the wrong god though I don't think they'd openly accept Tzeentch; more Tzeentch could lie and pretend to be something like a Verminlord (or rather not Tzeentch but one of his Greater Demon Lords).

Skaven have cropped up in tzeentch warbands several times over the years. all the way back to Realm of Chaos: Lost and the Damned, and as recently as Silver Tower. (Which is AoS). So yes, it happens.

No reason it wouldn't, really. They're children of chaos and power hungry. If they see an opportunity, they'll grab it with both paws.

Skaven psychology is actually entirely Tzeentchian, they all believe they are the best and destined for greatness.

It struck me that the old clans mapped to the gods fairly well, with Pestilens obviously Nurgle, but Skyre as Tzeentch, Moulder as Slaansh, and Eshin as Khorne.

I almost feel like that's asking if there's Khornate Tzaangors; I'm seeing the Skaven as very literally the children of the Horned Rat, and as such His avatars.

Can totally see a deranged Warlock Engineer allying with a sorceror cult in pursuit of greater knowledge, and naturally using that after to blow them up or therelike, though.

 Buddingsquaw wrote:
I almost feel like that's asking if there's Khornate Tzaangors; I'm seeing the Skaven as very literally the children of the Horned Rat, and as such His avatars.

Can totally see a deranged Warlock Engineer allying with a sorceror cult in pursuit of greater knowledge, and naturally using that after to blow them up or therelike, though.

In true skaven fashion the Warlock Engineer would likely blow himself up in the process of blowing up the Sorcerer

I really want to tell you there's a way for it to work, but really it is like squaw said; the skaven are the horned rat's creatures and having them be devoted to another god is like khornate tzaangors.

The Great Horned Rat's avatars are his Verminlords. Skaven themselves are independent and ruled under the Council of 13 and then from there spreading out into their various clans.

They are akin to Slaves to Darkness in that they woreship the Great Horned one and do much in his name, but they are not controlled directly by him much as one might think of your average warpspawn demon. Skaven are creatures of the world not the warp itself.


So if raised right from a young age they could well mistakenly be twisted to woreship the wrong Chaos God or be manipulated by them. It would be rare and if found out other Skaven would likely tear them to bits, but it could happen.

See, I reckoned they were different than the Chaos Beastmen by being a directed mutation orchestrated by the fledgling Horned Rat , and as such essentially had His protection by an ingrained influence or therelike, with Grey Seers being a designed low-chance flourishing of the mutation to create the odd natural leader amidst what would otherwise be doomed to be utterly leaderless and archaic.
Without that protection, surely we'd see Skaven succumbing to any of the major gods, what with the black hunger, filthy disease-carrying, mad science, and constant striving to be the best-greatest over everyone else.

Grumpy underdog that gets bullied by the other gods quietly goes for the unassuming rat in order to create a superpower below everyone's noses, resorting to the most nefarious ways so that they can come out on top and get revenge.

Daresay it'll be affirmed in the battletome.

The thing is there has never been any mention of Skaven worshipping other gods, afaik no fluff even going back to the earliest editions had that. Skaven working with Chaos sure, but not actually having the "Tzeentch" keyword so to say. Even pestilens, probably the most likely to have members divert worship, never had a Nurgle cult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could probably have Skaven bearing Tzeentch corruption even though they are still Horned Rat followers. The WHFB settlement Hell Pit has Skaven with chaos mutations but still horned rat.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The thing is there has never been any mention of Skaven worshipping other gods, afaik no fluff even going back to the earliest editions had that. Skaven working with Chaos sure, but not actually having the "Tzeentch" keyword so to say. Even pestilens, probably the most likely to have members divert worship, never had a Nurgle cult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could probably have Skaven bearing Tzeentch corruption even though they are still Horned Rat followers. The WHFB settlement Hell Pit has Skaven with chaos mutations but still horned rat.

You could always have them as followers of a Chaos Champion as well as the Champion themselves, although no one wants a Skaven Champion of Slaanesh

Well Plague Monks have the Nurgle keyword so I have to assume that they have at least some allegiance to Nurgle. I don't see why you couldn't have Skaven dedicated to any of the other gods. I'm thinking it would be similar to beastmen, they generally don't align with any of the Chaos gods but circumstances do exist. These beastmen are usually ostracized and treated as outcast by other beastmen but never the less still exist.

Skaven politics have so much backstabbing that feels right in Tzeentch's wheel house. I could also see a group of Clan Moulder using Tzeentch's aid in there experiments. At any rate the book is coming out at the end of the week and we will see what it has to say.

Pestilens works with Nurgle; it even occurred that a leading plague priest got a deal with Nurgle to get a blessing on the monks he commanded. However they never worshipped Nurgle, it was always an alliance. At another point in the realmgate wars a Skaven contacts Kairos Fateweaver and makes a deal to get his blessings but again, no worship. That detail is really the only sticking point in the army concept at hand.

Considering how Chaos Gods and their Greater Deamons often work its not a huge leap of lore to suppose that a clan of skaven that allies with a Nurgle Greater Demon multiple times might well steadily find themselves corrupted and twisted to serve the other Chaos God. The Skaven might not realise it happening but it could very well happen.

As far as I can recall, Skaven are *intensely* xenophobic. The only thing lower than a skaven slave is a non-skaven.

They may ally with another group, but only to better themselves, never to subjugate themselves. All Skaven seek to climb the social ladder. They might pay lip service to someone, but never believe it.

I thought that the rule books had said that Skaven were the natural version of Chaos in the old world.
Where the Beastmen had been the fusing of man and beast by the winds of chaos, Skaven evolved on their own but thriving off of wyrdstone/warpstone deposits.
They had great civilizations and made the ancient ruins of not-france their main nest...
Until the Horned One arrived and ate half the Skaven to gain the ability to speak to them.

 greatbigtree wrote:
As far as I can recall, Skaven are *intensely* xenophobic. The only thing lower than a skaven slave is a non-skaven.

They may ally with another group, but only to better themselves, never to subjugate themselves. All Skaven seek to climb the social ladder. They might pay lip service to someone, but never believe it.

and if a Daemon whispers in the ear of a Warlord or something offering power over its rivals just sell your soul...Skaven have short brutal lives so why not. Now doing that in a large Skaven Community will get it killed but out in the wilds or leading a small force - they might well decide to do so

 DeffDred wrote:
I thought that the rule books had said that Skaven were the natural version of Chaos in the old world.
Where the Beastmen had been the fusing of man and beast by the winds of chaos, Skaven evolved on their own but thriving off of wyrdstone/warpstone deposits.
They had great civilizations and made the ancient ruins of not-france their main nest...
Until the Horned One arrived and ate half the Skaven to gain the ability to speak to them.

Skaven are their own species much like elves or dwarves are their own species. However the fact that they have to consume warpstone and indoctrinate their young suggests that they are not "natural chaos" such as a Khorne Hound or Fiend of Slaanesh are. They are simply a species that is pretty much totally warped and influenced by Chaos.

 Mr Morden wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The thing is there has never been any mention of Skaven worshipping other gods, afaik no fluff even going back to the earliest editions had that. Skaven working with Chaos sure, but not actually having the "Tzeentch" keyword so to say. Even pestilens, probably the most likely to have members divert worship, never had a Nurgle cult.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
You could probably have Skaven bearing Tzeentch corruption even though they are still Horned Rat followers. The WHFB settlement Hell Pit has Skaven with chaos mutations but still horned rat.

You could always have them as followers of a Chaos Champion as well as the Champion themselves, although no one wants a Skaven Champion of Slaanesh

You underestimate the number of furries in the world. Also, fanfics that feature series that have ratmen or were-rats. I know Fred Perry of Gold Digger has done some of his own wererats as fetish material. (And they weren't far from that in the comic in the first place)

I look forward to reading the new Battletome. Keeping my claws crossed that Eshin gets some reasonably good/useful treatment, and maybe a new kit or at least battalion where I can use my 50 Gutter Runners, Assassin and Deceiver!