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tneva82 wrote:

 Stux wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Can somebody tell me by what rule you can add by the stratagem one Assasin? People is telling me that because he has the Imperium keyword you can't use it, as your Chaos Army doesn't share that.

The start of the new index says you have access to the Stratagems if you have any IMPERIUM detachments in your army.

GSC Brood Brothers have the IMPERIUM keyword, as does Cypher. So either can allow access to an IMPERIUM detachment.

It doesn't allow you to take Assassins normally, but it does allow access to the Stratagem that lets you use Reinforcement points to add an Assassin to your army. You can only use it once though.

I definitely see this as an unintended loophole that will be likely closed in a forthcoming FAQ.

Then again with chaos inquisitors and why not why not assasins as well. Chaos pays extra for that anyway.

Chaos Assassins would indeed be cool, but I don't think it makes sense to just give them access to the Imperium ones. The Assassinorum started after the Heresy after all. Not to mention that a Cullexus Assassin is probably impossible to corrupt due to its unique nature.

Getting some bespoke Chaos ones would be ace though!

 Stux wrote:

 Galas wrote:
Can somebody tell me by what rule you can add by the stratagem one Assasin? People is telling me that because he has the Imperium keyword you can't use it, as your Chaos Army doesn't share that.

The start of the new index says you have access to the Stratagems if you have any IMPERIUM detachments in your army.

GSC Brood Brothers have the IMPERIUM keyword, as does Cypher. So either can allow access to an IMPERIUM detachment.

It doesn't allow you to take Assassins normally, but it does allow access to the Stratagem that lets you use Reinforcement points to add an Assassin to your army. You can only use it once though.

I definitely see this as an unintended loophole that will be likely closed in a forthcoming FAQ.

No loophole here (for GSC anyway). Your Warlord must be IMPERIUM to use the "Add an Assassin" stratagem, which you can't do with Brood Brothers.

You can make Cypher or a random Fallen your Warlord though and get access to them.

Seeing new forces join chaos al' the time pre heresy or not is fairly irrelelevant. Plus assasins existed during heresy as well

Ah quite right. That one is all good then!

What's the nastiest and most point efficient and command point efficient combo people can think up in a soup situation for an eversor in terms of munching a standard horde type troop, such as guard, basic marines, eldar guardians, ork boys etc etc....

Key priorities would be to allow to ignore overwatch, boost attacks and strength (psychic powers?). reroll to hits (and wounds if possible), maybe reduce targets toughness if it is a further advantage to do this in combination with improved strength against certain units?

If the combo requires other units going into the same combat such as a BA smash captain to negate the over watch that is okay, just looking at maximizing eversor killing potential any means how.

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing new forces join chaos al' the time pre heresy or not is fairly irrelelevant. Plus assasins existed during heresy as well

Not these assassins, different ones. As I say, Cullexus being Choas makes no sense too!

It makes perfect sense. Khorne needs someone to slap those uppity Tzeentch wizards about.

 Stux wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing new forces join chaos al' the time pre heresy or not is fairly irrelelevant. Plus assasins existed during heresy as well

Not these assassins, different ones. As I say, Cullexus being Choas makes no sense too!

Being chaos yes, going rogue though? Offering their services to whoever can allow them to service their wants and desires? Who knows? It certainly has potential if an incredibly niche scenario. Sort of like the whole idea that grey knights are incorruptible... That surely is impossibly to guard against, and yes it hasn't happened yet but that doesn't mean it could not.

In addition to this, maybe allying with a chaos force allows the perfect opportunity to assassinate their intended target, maybe chaos forces are within touching distance of it, which the assassin would find difficult to get them self into an equal or greater advantage. Heck, they may not be allied, the assassin could just be dropping in on that battlefield to take out their target, it's just the chaos forces are destroying the guards around the assassins target... The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

I just think it's way too niche though. Choas having Assassins makes sense. Chaos having access to these Assassins much less so. Needing Cypher in the mix too? Bonkers.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Want to know what I think is incredibly stupid? Every ork in an army being covered by a 5++ save.

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

This is so silly. Of they want to make a good game! So much cynicism here. Yeah, they don't always get it right, but it's a hell of a lot harder than anyone gives credit. Ridiculous number of variables, it's inherently unbalancable.

Well, my TS army is now officially dead now that every imperial player has a pocket assassin that would be geared into a Culexus.

Guess its time to play Tau again.
Not sure they are not equally punked by this though...

If you are not IoM you are having a very bad day once this ruleset drops.
The ability to easily switch in any assassin you needs for a mere 1CP (and reserving the cost, but that's normal) is brutal. whatever strategy the opponent has, you got a clear counter,

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Want to know what I think is incredibly stupid? Every ork in an army being covered by a 5++ save.

*cough * requires huge amount of points and logistics that offers a fine balance for a skilled player who organises their army well vs a player who brings a unit, stands still, shoots and easily kills that 1 character and causes your entire plan to down fall *cough*

 lolman1c wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Want to know what I think is incredibly stupid? Every ork in an army being covered by a 5++ save.

*cough * requires huge amount of points and logistics that offers a fine balance for a skilled player who organises their army well vs a player who brings a unit, stands still, shoots and easily kills that 1 character and causes your entire plan to down fall *cough*

**cough, cough** A highly skilled player wouldn't put all their eggs in one basket **cough**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Want to know what I think is incredibly stupid? Every ork in an army being covered by a 5++ save.

I have yet to see such army. It takes expensive 100+ pts model, one generally not enough to cover entire army as 9" is rather narrow. Remember for added fun if unit is partially within KFF #1 and partially within KFF #2 no 5++.

This change has a meaning if it comes together with a limitation on CP. In that case using that CP AND having to devolve CPs to assassins in addition to your army, becomes a choice.

 Stux wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

This is so silly. Of they want to make a good game! So much cynicism here. Yeah, they don't always get it right, but it's a hell of a lot harder than anyone gives credit. Ridiculous number of variables, it's inherently unbalancable.

Spending 1CP to gain 2CP HAS to be the best stratgem ever!

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, my TS army is now officially dead now that every imperial player has a pocket assassin that would be geared into a Culexus.

Guess its time to play Tau again.
Not sure they are not equally punked by this though...

Drones and Bodyguards are probably a good defense against Vindicare, FWIW.

Pancakey wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

This is so silly. Of they want to make a good game! So much cynicism here. Yeah, they don't always get it right, but it's a hell of a lot harder than anyone gives credit. Ridiculous number of variables, it's inherently unbalancable.

Spending 1CP to gain 2CP HAS to be the best stratgem ever!

Tyranids already had it, it's nothing new.

Pancakey wrote:

 Stux wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

This is so silly. Of they want to make a good game! So much cynicism here. Yeah, they don't always get it right, but it's a hell of a lot harder than anyone gives credit. Ridiculous number of variables, it's inherently unbalancable.

Spending 1CP to gain 2CP HAS to be the best stratgem ever!

You can only gain 1 per turn anyway, so if you have Kurov's Aquilla it's basically redundant. Only works when you kill a character, which you'll be lucky to do once every two turns. And that assumes that you're bringing CP to shoot twice, against most armies, to have a decent chance of killing something.

It's not that good a Strat. Something that actually does something would probably be better.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, my TS army is now officially dead now that every imperial player has a pocket assassin that would be geared into a Culexus.

They've actually stealth-nerfed the Culexus - it's aura now affects friendly psykers.

Of course being able to take an assassin in an all-comers list without finding that they are a bit useless on the day is well worth a CP.

 Stux wrote:

You can only gain 1 per turn anyway, so if you have Kurov's Aquilla it's basically redundant.

Wrong. Read the tactical restraint rule, the last sentence.

 p5freak wrote:

 Stux wrote:

You can only gain 1 per turn anyway, so if you have Kurov's Aquilla it's basically redundant.

Wrong. Read the tactical restraint rule, the last sentence.

I know you do get 2 from the strat, I'm saying it's a net gain of 1. If you have gained 1 from Kurov's Aquilla already then this strat will do nothing though.

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, my TS army is now officially dead now that every imperial player has a pocket assassin that would be geared into a Culexus.

Guess its time to play Tau again.
Not sure they are not equally punked by this though...

If you are not IoM you are having a very bad day once this ruleset drops.
The ability to easily switch in any assassin you needs for a mere 1CP (and reserving the cost, but that's normal) is brutal. whatever strategy the opponent has, you got a clear counter,

it's just an additional +2 to your cast, not exactly going to break the game. I played an army with a single Culexus at the LVO and had no problemt keeping out of 18" of it. Also played vs 3 Culexus where I couln't avoid the aura, but still got some psychics off. Would have been easier if I'd had a warlock too to be able to do +1 cast.

 Stux wrote:

I know you do get 2 from the strat, I'm saying it's a net gain of 1. If you have gained 1 from Kurov's Aquilla already then this strat will do nothing though.

You get 1 from kurovs aquila and you get 1 (or 2 if the killed character is the enemy warlord) from the stratagem, in the same battle round. The tactical restraint rule doesnt apply to stratagems.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
BIG game changer....you can pick whatever assassin that fits the opponent.

Psykers will weep.

I just saw that now. That would explain why you can't get command benefits unless you field all 4 assassins.
I hope some of the culexus rules finds their way into the necron dex, because that's the anti-psychic stuff I'm looking for.

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Want to know what I think is incredibly stupid? Every ork in an army being covered by a 5++ save.

Against range weapons only, if they stay within 9 of an incredibly expensive character.

Also completely off topic. The misdirections people will use to try and detract from broken things they like the sound of never ceases to amuse.

 bullyboy wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, my TS army is now officially dead now that every imperial player has a pocket assassin that would be geared into a Culexus.

Guess its time to play Tau again.
Not sure they are not equally punked by this though...

If you are not IoM you are having a very bad day once this ruleset drops.
The ability to easily switch in any assassin you needs for a mere 1CP (and reserving the cost, but that's normal) is brutal. whatever strategy the opponent has, you got a clear counter,

it's just an additional +2 to your cast, not exactly going to break the game. I played an army with a single Culexus at the LVO and had no problemt keeping out of 18" of it. Also played vs 3 Culexus where I couln't avoid the aura, but still got some psychics off. Would have been easier if I'd had a warlock too to be able to do +1 cast.

+2 is pretty significant.

5+ goes from 83% to 58%
7+ goes from 58% to 28%

Thousand Sons have an easier time staying out of 18", but when you have a big screen preventing you from getting in any deeper it can become a problem.

I'm not saying it's broken, but it gives pretty significant challenges.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Headshot looks entirely stupid also. Goodbye any Ork character. I'm rapidly losing faith in GWs ability to balance this game.

I think for most people that faith disappeared the minute they moved away from the Index (or even during). Honestly, is anyone surprised? Did anyone really buy that BS about balancing the game? It was a PR stunt like virtually everything else they mentioned in the previews, in politician-level doublespeak so they could renege on it later and make it out like they never said anything of the sort.

Want to know what I think is incredibly stupid? Every ork in an army being covered by a 5++ save.

Against range weapons only, if they stay within 9 of an incredibly expensive character.

Also completely off topic. The misdirections people will use to try and detract from broken things they like the sound of never ceases to amuse.

I would hardly call that incredibly expensive or hard to do. In any case much of these weapons ignore invulvs.

Orks have runts, oilers, grots, and a D3 heal. They're not under significant threat from snipers. Eversors should be the bigger concern since one could take 20 boyz.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

 BoomWolf wrote:
Well, my TS army is now officially dead now that every imperial player has a pocket assassin that would be geared into a Culexus.

They've actually stealth-nerfed the Culexus - it's aura now affects friendly psykers.

Of course being able to take an assassin in an all-comers list without finding that they are a bit useless on the day is well worth a CP.

Culexus will likely feature in Castellan lists. If it means 8 or so fewer mortars then maybe we're better off. It will be interesting anyway.

Surely they should have said that the entire army needs to share the IMPERIUM keyword to use an assassin, rather than just a detachment.

Anyways, they were already good. Now with the buffs and strats, they are pretty OP. But I guess that's par for the course with the amount of power creep we are seeing. And I'd rather them be OP than be bad and never see action, because they sure are cool