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 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I still like the idea of Khorne ones supported by The Crimson Crown relic, as it doesnt require much in the way of CP or support.

That's also a pretty decent one, especially with Veterans to trigger the Crown on a 5+, which in theory would end up netting you 4 extra shots on average, or 2 extra shots per squad without Veterans. Throw in re-rolls to hit and you're probably getting 5 or 3 extra shots per squad. Personally I like the Tzeentch approach to counteract some of the weapon variability.

Huh, well, that's a weird one. Seems intended for melee, but totally viable RAW. I don't think people like giving up double tap though.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Huh, well, that's a weird one. Seems intended for melee, but totally viable RAW. I don't think people like giving up double tap though.

I think part of that is just the fact that it's a Khornate artifact. The nice thing about some of the non-Slaanesh options is their ability to not get shutdown by things like Vect and the ability to maintain said effectiveness without spending CP.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 TwinPoleTheory wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I still like the idea of Khorne ones supported by The Crimson Crown relic, as it doesnt require much in the way of CP or support.

That's also a pretty decent one, especially with Veterans to trigger the Crown on a 5+, which in theory would end up netting you 4 extra shots on average, or 2 extra shots per squad without Veterans. Throw in re-rolls to hit and you're probably getting 5 or 3 extra shots per squad. Personally I like the Tzeentch approach to counteract some of the weapon variability.

Huh, well, that's a weird one. Seems intended for melee, but totally viable RAW. I don't think people like giving up double tap though.

With Oblits having an actual melee profile now, it is perfectly reasonable to have them fight twice as well. Use the Renegades trait for these shenanagins if you're all about the word FUN.

You can run squad as slaaneshi and one khornate, if you wanted to. Drop them in with bloodletters and go to town, right?

Before Rule of Three, it was fun to do one squad of each with Daemonic support.

Assault 6? Hhhooo Lawrdy!

 Insectum7 wrote:
Assault 6? Hhhooo Lawrdy!

Assault 6, but 2 oblits are now with 3 of the old kind in terms of points as far as we can tell. So it balances out to the same shots for the same points, just now they are harder to kill per model.

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Assault 6? Hhhooo Lawrdy!

Assault 6, but 2 oblits are now with 3 of the old kind in terms of points as far as we can tell. So it balances out to the same shots for the same points, just now they are harder to kill per model.

More value out of the Shoot Twice strat though, that's what I'm liking.

Not too keen on the new model though. I'm a big fan of the prior sculpt.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Assault 6? Hhhooo Lawrdy!

Assault 6, but 2 oblits are now with 3 of the old kind in terms of points as far as we can tell. So it balances out to the same shots for the same points, just now they are harder to kill per model.

More value out of the Shoot Twice strat though, that's what I'm liking.

Not too keen on the new model though. I'm a big fan of the prior sculpt.

This...



Is better than this?



You crazy? The old sculpt was just AWFUL.

I mean, to each their own, but I find your position baffling.

To be fair, the old one looks like a demented, warped terminator. THis new one looks more like a mini-helbrute.

 vaklor4 wrote:
To be fair, the old one looks like a demented, warped terminator. THis new one looks more like a mini-helbrute.

That's fair. But it didn't look GOOD, to me.

The new ones need a better paint job. There needs to be a blend of flesh/metal to make it look better.

I don't even think that the new models are particularly good, but they're still about ten-times better than the old ones.

I should really just field my 9 original model Obliterators on updated bases, hide them behind Rhinos and small bushes. Now that was an ugly model.

 bullyboy wrote:
The new ones need a better paint job. There needs to be a blend of flesh/metal to make it look better.

I agree. I'm planning to paint mine very differently which I think will make a huge difference to the contrast in details

GW pretty smart, save on new mold and some plastic for more money and be somewhat "same" on the tabletop. I havent seen oblits be used in competitive in a long time.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 vaklor4 wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
Assault 6? Hhhooo Lawrdy!

Assault 6, but 2 oblits are now with 3 of the old kind in terms of points as far as we can tell. So it balances out to the same shots for the same points, just now they are harder to kill per model.

More value out of the Shoot Twice strat though, that's what I'm liking.

Not too keen on the new model though. I'm a big fan of the prior sculpt.

This...

Spoiler:

Is better than this?

Spoiler:

You crazy? The old sculpt was just AWFUL.

I mean, to each their own, but I find your position baffling.

I prefer the old ones by a lot. I like that they have more marine-ish armor, and that the armor and flesh are mixing more organically. I like that they don't look as big, too. I like that their guns look like they're sprouting uncontrollably. They look more chaotic to me. The new ones look more like a sloppy comic book design.

Technically, mabe the new ones are superior, but I'd prefer a poor recording of great music over a great recording of poor music.

I actually like the model, but the rules for me are a major miss. You finally have a model that has half a dozen clear classic weapons sticking out from it with details and you give it a generic shooting profile ? They could have brought back a classic rule set for a unit and didn't.

I'm assuming none of you guys raving about herp derp shoot twice ever plan to play into Drukhari or Genestealer Cults.

I don't like the new Obliterator personally, but I don't believe it's physically possible to make a worse sculpt than the previous Obliterator (one of many sculpted Chaos miniatures from someone who's design philosophy was....apply green stuff...drag a sharp tool through it...CHAOS! --- seriously, these along with the Plague Marines at the time were some of the very worst, laziest, gak sculpts from GW's worst sculpting period) - early to mid 2000's they had some horrible stuff.

 Ap0k wrote:
I'm assuming none of you guys raving about herp derp shoot twice ever plan to play into Drukhari or Genestealer Cults.

The reason people are raving is because pretty much since the start of 8th Obliterators of Slaanesh have been the de-facto dakka outputter for Chaos. Its less speculation and more "how will our dakka-bois change"

They get worse.

There. Done.

I mean, I wish that wasn't the case, but it is. New Oblits are a sidegrade at best (if they get favourably costed toward the low end of the 6PL average), and a catastrophe at worst (i.e the expected cost).

Rumor has it they are 115 PPM...Which is pretty freakin large. However, they did get a pretty hard hitting melee profile, so...Although Slaaneshi oblits aren't good anymore, Khorne and Nurgle may carry more merit.

 Ap0k wrote:
I'm assuming none of you guys raving about herp derp shoot twice ever plan to play into Drukhari or Genestealer Cults.

That stops castellans cold, too, right?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ap0k wrote:
I'm assuming none of you guys raving about herp derp shoot twice ever plan to play into Drukhari or Genestealer Cults.

That stops castellans cold, too, right?

Vecting a Rotate doesn't exactly guarantee a Castellan goes down, since it's still incredibly survivable without it. Similarly, Vecting Machine Spirit Resurgent just slows their damage output for a turn.

Vecting Cacophony all but ensures you just dropped a now 300-360ish point unit (depending on eventual price) onto the table that will not make its points back, because it's going to be 100% dead before it gets another chance to shoot (this is the same problem existing Oblits have, btw, which is why nobody uses them outside casual play). In the case of GSC, they're more likely to get tied up in combat and never shoot again.

Oblits have one turn to do their job. They don't get a 2nd. The unit costing more just means you lose even more points when they inevitably die after the drop. You can't rely on Cacophony because you might play into DE/GSC, and if you can't rely on Cacophony, you can't put units into your list that rely on Cacophony to do their job.

I haven't personally run oblits in a while, but didn't a list with them do pretty well at lvo?

I don't remember hearing of anyone running Oblits at LVO, but I was dipping in and out of the stream so can't say I was paying a ton of attention.

I'd assume if they were running Oblits there's a reasonable chance they were marked nurgle and backed up by a tree since that's the most feasible non-stratagem-reliant way to get mileage out of them, but I'd be happy to be wrong.

Also something something exception something something proving the rule.

At 115pts it MAY still be useful but for 300-350pts, its appears massively unsatisfying to play.

 Ap0k wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Ap0k wrote:
I'm assuming none of you guys raving about herp derp shoot twice ever plan to play into Drukhari or Genestealer Cults.

That stops castellans cold, too, right?

Vecting a Rotate doesn't exactly guarantee a Castellan goes down, since it's still incredibly survivable without it. Similarly, Vecting Machine Spirit Resurgent just slows their damage output for a turn.

Vecting Cacophony all but ensures you just dropped a now 300-360ish point unit (depending on eventual price) onto the table that will not make its points back, because it's going to be 100% dead before it gets another chance to shoot (this is the same problem existing Oblits have, btw, which is why nobody uses them outside casual play). In the case of GSC, they're more likely to get tied up in combat and never shoot again.

Oblits have one turn to do their job. They don't get a 2nd. The unit costing more just means you lose even more points when they inevitably die after the drop. You can't rely on Cacophony because you might play into DE/GSC, and if you can't rely on Cacophony, you can't put units into your list that rely on Cacophony to do their job.

Do you believe Oblits are costed around being able to shoot twice?

Is there something that Oblits really need to shoot twice when facing DE or GSC? I'm doubtful.

36 shots on a knight, however, is quite strong.

Are you talking about newblits or oldblits?

Oblits need to shoot twice vs DE because if you don't kill as many Ravagers as you can on the drop, your chances of getting another chance to kill them (with those units) are incredibly slim (likely because you're dead, occasionally because they can just fly away outside your range and you'll never get back into range).

The point isn't about 'what do these factions have that you need to shoot twice'. The point is 'These factions exist in the meta, and as a result you will likely face them, and if you're facing them using a unit that is only worth its points when it gets to Cacophony, then you lose, which means you can't put those units in a list because their feasibility depends on their ability to make use of a stratagem'.

Oblits need Cacophony to clear out threats to their survivability to give them a chance of surviving the turn after the drop. If you can't get Cacophony off, you throw away a, currently, 195 point unit with minimal impact, and that's kinda a big deal.