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I super dig the new line. I collect Templars so it's going to be a hard choice for me to pick it up. But supposing I decided to paint Shadowspear a different heraldry... What would fit the fluff, or look good, or pair well with chapter ability wise?

Basically convince me that I do or do not need to buy this box

I'd say Raven Guard. The snipers, the general overall infiltration theme of the group, all seems to fit raven guard well.

Nice to see some things for Raven Guard that aren't jump packs too, some actual scouts!

Yeah Raven Guard. Couple the -1 to hit with the +1 to cover saves that a lot of the models get, or the -1 to hit that Infiltrators get when using their smoke grenades, and you've got a force that will be very hard to shift.

The trouble is getting some anti-tank options into the force. Hopefully the Suppressors and other things will have some other weapon options when they get their full kits.

totally ravenguard

Imperial Fists with the infiltrators. If using that +1 to hit Warlord fait and bolter drill you get autowounds and extra shots an 5s.

Tiny 3-man units and bolters as far as the eye can see and nobody saying Crimson Fists??

To be fair the Eliminators are the ones who really benefit from Crimson Fists - Slay the Tyrant is made for snipers and the option of Bolter Drill really ups their game.

Lieutenant will be hitting on 2+ vs pretty much everything he ever wants to be attacking for what that's worth.

Suppressors vs infantry is not ideal but at least with those small units you get the +1 to hit when they do go after anything with 6 or more models.

Also the +1 to hit warlord trait stacks beautifully with Bolter Drill for maximum dakka. Even Infiltrators get some benefit from that, although it is a bit of a stretch to see them have meaningful damage output ever.

Thematically, definitely Raven Guard.

Although after reading happy_inquisitor's post, I'm excited to add some to my Crimson Fists!

The Librarian fits the Dark Angels imo with the robes.

alpha legion

Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

 G00fySmiley wrote:
alpha legion

Totally Alpha Legion

Obviously Soul Drinkers, because purple is da skeekiest colour. Yoo ever seen a purple ork?

Raptors.

Since GW decided to forbid them for use in Deathwatch, I guess I will be playing with Greens.

Great responses all. I thought of Raven guard too, and I agree that psyker is pretty Dark Angely. Fists is an interesting thought. And of course, purple is the sneekiest color, sum ded kun'in dat iz. In the end I think I might sadly pass on the box. If I'm going to do another SM chapter I'd rather just start with another faction all together. And I'm not into the chaos stuff . Maybe revisit my terrain. I want to keep expanding my Templars so maybe when the unit boxes come out I can go that route. I'm just so sad that right after I finished my current Templars they introduce a Librarian I like. Argh.

Raven guard is the easy answer... the entire aesthetic is based around stealth and forward operators.

Drager wrote:
Imperial Fists with the infiltrators. If using that +1 to hit Warlord fait and bolter drill you get autowounds and extra shots an 5s.

Unmodified 6s to hit, thxbb

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

We do know that the Necropolis Hawks and Rift Stalkers, both Raven Guard Successors, are also fully Primaris Chapters.

Anyone running a Vanguard detachment of Emperor's Spears could use the new Lieutenant. If the rules stack (which I think they do?), that's 3 hits per roll of 6 in CC.

Alpha Legion, errrm i meant raven guard.
¨whistles whilest baking out.

Templars re-roll charges, yes? Yeah, these guys don't seems to especially benefit from that, since their trick is starting close.


They'd probably benefit well from Ultramarines or White Scars. Both would allow them to skirmish on turn 1, then fall back in a different direction and continue fighting. Ultramarines would probably be the more conservative and reliable option, but White Scars might be great for abusing inexperienced players, charging, fighting, hooking around on the pile in/consolidate, then falling back and charging again onto something else.


Raven Guard would be pretty good on the Eliminators, since they have the range to provoke the -1 to hit and have camo cloaks to have a 2+. They'd be impressively difficult to shift. I think that the infiltrators wouldn't benefit as much though, since their role seems to be forward screening, zoning and skirmishing, and they'll probably be too close for the -1.

Ultramarines. Cause Vanilla is good with all the toppings.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

Raptors are a FW Chapter. There's no guarantee of anything when that comes into the discussion.

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
Raven Guard, their successors The Raptors more specifically.

We don't know yet if Raptors got Primaris...

Every canon chapter has primaris garenteed

Raptors are a FW Chapter. There's no guarantee of anything when that comes into the discussion.

raptors aren't really forge world these days, they're not selling anything for the chapter. that said every forge world chapter that has their own series of doors etc has repulasor tank doors. FW sells a primaris only tank. we thus can conclude FW ius supporting the primaris range. GW, and thus forge world will ALWAYS try to be inclusive with their armies that way

Everyone says raven guard. Everyone is wrong. Go Raptors, the raven guard's better successors. At least the best fit for vanguard marines.

Yeah, definitely Raptors. Their Chapter Master is a sniper, for goodness' sake.

I keep thinking Carcharadons for some reason.

Reemule wrote:
Ultramarines. Cause Vanilla is good with all the toppings.

Definitely. They're actually pretty well suited to getting a lot of milage out of the UM CT, since they start so close to the enemy, and will easily be able to engage in close quarters, or be engaged in close quarters.

I definitely disagree with Raven Guard being the best match for them, though. The Eliminators, maybe, but everyone else is going to start up close and rapidly be within 12". While they could function as a resilient roadblock to aggressively keep the enemy away from your units that are benefiting from the CT, scouts would probably be a better buy for that.

I'm going to have to concur with those saying Ultramarines.

The new models are mostly infiltrators, so tactically designed to start closer to your opponent in some way. This negates the -1 to hit for Raven Guard much more easily.

On the same logic, they're closer and more likely to get charged, so falling back and still shooting seems much more useful.

Sumilidon wrote:
I'm going to have to concur with those saying Ultramarines.

The new models are mostly infiltrators, so tactically designed to start closer to your opponent in some way. This negates the -1 to hit for Raven Guard much more easily.

On the same logic, they're closer and more likely to get charged, so falling back and still shooting seems much more useful.

Oh yeah. I intent to put mine on the front lines, and be charging right off the bat.

As an additional consideration... Blood Angels [or Wolves]. Like, they're going to be charging, +1 to hit or to wound could go a fair distance with them.


I'd definitely pass on traits focused on long range engagement. These guys are up close and personal, and they're going to be stuck in more than they're shooting I'd bet.