Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Everyone,


since the new chaos stuff will be released soon, I'm planning on dipping my toes into the eye of terror

The Problem is, I can't decide wether I should build an Ironwarrior force or a Nightlord warband.

The Ironwarrior list would feature lots of fearless cultists and Demonengines, while the Nightlords would obviously employ some alpha strike units (raptors, Warptalons and Plasma Termies).
Do you guys have any pros or cons? I play in a elatively casual environment and won't face many knights or lords of wars.


Please help a very undecisive fellow wargamer

Thanks!

PS: If this is the wrong place for this, pls let me know.

Probably should bring this up in general discussion part.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Probably should bring this up in general discussion part.

I guess you're right, thanks!

Mods: Can you move this thread please?

So, technically, if you want to go iron warrior and like siege weaponry like basiliks f.e. you could always ally in a HS detachment of Renegades and Heretics.
That said daemonengines have a history of beeing meh. On the other hand, Fearless cultist blobs and ignoring Cover is decent and some of the better things the regular CSM codex has.

Then there are the NL, their trait would suggest you play morale shenanigans. One problem though, the only unit you have that can play Morale shenanigans are Raptors, and they are less then stellar, HOWEVER, Mark of nurgle and the nurgle icon exist, so a Single unit of NL raptors can generate a -3 on morale.
Their stratagem is also a good one 1Cp for a -1 to hit for a turn, is frankly a nice little boost.


I'd say a Morale NL is fluffy fun to play and still somewhat usefull, (also hillarious if you go a Nurgle NL route for miasma and icon of despair.)
Cultists are in both lists good, mostly because the regular CSM are well, bad.

I am partial to Night Lords myself...

 Lord Blackscale wrote:
I am partial to Night Lords myself...

I wonder why

Not Online!!! wrote:
So, technically, if you want to go iron warrior and like siege weaponry like basiliks f.e. you could always ally in a HS detachment of Renegades and Heretics.
That said daemonengines have a history of beeing meh. On the other hand, Fearless cultist blobs and ignoring Cover is decent and some of the better things the regular CSM codex has.

Then there are the NL, their trait would suggest you play morale shenanigans. One problem though, the only unit you have that can play Morale shenanigans are Raptors, and they are less then stellar, HOWEVER, Mark of nurgle and the nurgle icon exist, so a Single unit of NL raptors can generate a -3 on morale.
Their stratagem is also a good one 1Cp for a -1 to hit for a turn, is frankly a nice little boost.


I'd say a Morale NL is fluffy fun to play and still somewhat usefull, (also hillarious if you go a Nurgle NL route for miasma and icon of despair.)
Cultists are in both lists good, mostly because the regular CSM are well, bad.

Thank you for the feedback!

Concerning the Nightlords, do you think a deepstriking/infantry heavy list could work? Deepstriking Lord with jumppack and reroll-trait would have a ok-ish chance for a first time charge, coupled with a few units of warptalons (Sorceror with warptime to help charge?) could bring some pressure and convey some moral maluses deep into the enemy lines. You could combine this with deepstriking plasma terminators (slaanesh for shoot twice) this list struggles against moral immmune targets though, which leads me to IWs.

IW would be more competetive, I guess. With huge blobs of cultists with access to shoot twice and VotlW etc. I heard that the fiends are ok and quite usable after the point reduction in CA and Defilers aren't that bad as well, are they (better than raptors and warp talons anyways )?

Just a couple of ideas. I'm rather new to 8th, so I still struggle with list building etc.

IW on Daemonengines, see the following:BS4+ degrading SUUUUUUCKS, Paying however for a BS3 and Having BS4 allready SUUUUUCKS even more. And that is the story of all DAKKA Daemonengines. (exception beeing the FW decimator which has BS3+ and does never degrade, cost however more then a Hellbrute so he is ehh)

That said, have you ever considered a cult of destruction list?
What i mean by that is Obliterators, the new MoP, Hellwright (FW), Warpsmiths, Hellbrutes and cheap CP from cultists instead? (you would still pick IW trait probably.)

Not Online!!! wrote:
IW on Daemonengines, see the following:BS4+ degrading SUUUUUUCKS, Paying however for a BS3 and Having BS4 allready SUUUUUCKS even more. And that is the story of all DAKKA Daemonengines. (exception beeing the FW decimator which has BS3+ and does never degrade, cost however more then a Hellbrute so he is ehh)

That said, have you ever considered a cult of destruction list?
What i mean by that is Obliterators, the new MoP, Hellwright (FW), Warpsmiths, Hellbrutes and cheap CP from cultists instead? (you would still pick IW trait probably.)

Is this a specific vigilus detachment or do you mean just focusing on those units?
I totaly forgot about Hellbrutes. Those would be a fluffy and a good pick for the IW army. I guess I'd pick up 1-2 shadowspears anyways so I'll have access to Newblits as well. This combined with cultists sound quite good. But how does the MoP fit in there? The Healing Power or the Oblit buff?

This sounds like a good start for an army though

One good thing about Iron Warriors is that many of the new models (Obliterators, Daemon Engines, Havocs) are units they tend to use.

There is the new Raptor Lord model, so that is a boon if you're using lots of Raptors like Night Lords are known to do.

Since there appears to be even more Chaos models and probably a new codex on the way it might be worth waiting.

If I was split between Night Lords and Iron Warriors and couldn't wait to get started, what I think I would do is start a Night Lords Kill Team. Small terror squads feels very thematic for Night Lords, and by the time you're finished building and painting the models there might be more information on what's coming. Then if you want to do Night Lords you have a head start, and if you want to do Iron Warriors you have a fun Kill Team to play on the side.

 Dakka Flakka Flame wrote:
One good thing about Iron Warriors is that many of the new models (Obliterators, Daemon Engines, Havocs) are units they tend to use.

There is the new Raptor Lord model, so that is a boon if you're using lots of Raptors like Night Lords are known to do.

Since there appears to be even more Chaos models and probably a new codex on the way it might be worth waiting.

If I was split between Night Lords and Iron Warriors and couldn't wait to get started, what I think I would do is start a Night Lords Kill Team. Small terror squads feels very thematic for Night Lords, and by the time you're finished building and painting the models there might be more information on what's coming. Then if you want to do Night Lords you have a head start, and if you want to do Iron Warriors you have a fun Kill Team to play on the side.

This is an amazing idea! And what you say is so true and I guess which is the biggest let down of Nightlords for me: It just feels strange to play Nightlords with cultists and heavy warmachines. So a killteam would serve them perfectly!

Night Lords are amazing for conversions. Just put body parts, flayed skin and dead guys everywhere!

Forgeworld has a bit more model variety for them over the Iron Warriors too, though the Shadowspear chaos side definitely looks more like an Iron Warrior army than a Night Lords one.

Though I will admit, if you want something that resembles how a real army would/should actually operate, go with the Iron Warriors.

The current CSM line has a load of fluffy options for Iron Warriors and pretty limited options for Night Lords (if you want to go fluffy all the way). There are many daemon engines, Oblits, warpsmith, mutilators and now the Daemonkin.
Night Lords on the other hand don't even like Possessed or spawn and also don't want to ally with Daemons, so you're basically stuck on raptors, warp talons, CSM, Heldrakes, Terminators, Chosen, Helbrutes and some Forgeworld choices. That's not bad though (and still more options than Harlequins or Custodes have...), as a limited set let's you concentrate on what's good with the army.
Choose what you like the looks/fluff more of. Iron Warriors might be easier to play.

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
IW on Daemonengines, see the following:BS4+ degrading SUUUUUUCKS, Paying however for a BS3 and Having BS4 allready SUUUUUCKS even more. And that is the story of all DAKKA Daemonengines. (exception beeing the FW decimator which has BS3+ and does never degrade, cost however more then a Hellbrute so he is ehh)

That said, have you ever considered a cult of destruction list?
What i mean by that is Obliterators, the new MoP, Hellwright (FW), Warpsmiths, Hellbrutes and cheap CP from cultists instead? (you would still pick IW trait probably.)

Is this a specific vigilus detachment or do you mean just focusing on those units?
I totaly forgot about Hellbrutes. Those would be a fluffy and a good pick for the IW army. I guess I'd pick up 1-2 shadowspears anyways so I'll have access to Newblits as well. This combined with cultists sound quite good. But how does the MoP fit in there? The Healing Power or the Oblit buff?

This sounds like a good start for an army though

Basically the CUlt of Destruction is IW insane Science Dark Mechanicus and Daemons binding into machines. Basically the Obliterator virus incarnate list and focusing onf fusion of Daemon and machine and flesh. The MoP is there because he will help out the warpsmiths to bind daemons and boost the daemon part of the army.

go black legion, you know you wanna use that gorgous abaddon model

BrianDavion wrote:
go black legion, you know you wanna use that gorgous abaddon model

EUUUGHH don't or do you want to constantly search his arms?

BrianDavion wrote:
go black legion, you know you wanna use that gorgous abaddon model

I could always use it to convert a sick looking Demonprince, as for both legions a more human looking Demonprince is quite fitting

Waaaghbert wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
go black legion, you know you wanna use that gorgous abaddon model

I could always use it to convert a sick looking Demonprince, as for both legions a more human looking Demonprince is quite fitting

there is that, you could also if you wanted to use abaddon paint up your units as a mix of night lords, iron warriors and other traitor legions and run them using the black legion rules as a "!3th black crusade mixed force under the command of the despoiler"

Not Online!!! wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
IW on Daemonengines, see the following:BS4+ degrading SUUUUUUCKS, Paying however for a BS3 and Having BS4 allready SUUUUUCKS even more. And that is the story of all DAKKA Daemonengines. (exception beeing the FW decimator which has BS3+ and does never degrade, cost however more then a Hellbrute so he is ehh)

That said, have you ever considered a cult of destruction list?
What i mean by that is Obliterators, the new MoP, Hellwright (FW), Warpsmiths, Hellbrutes and cheap CP from cultists instead? (you would still pick IW trait probably.)

Is this a specific vigilus detachment or do you mean just focusing on those units?
I totaly forgot about Hellbrutes. Those would be a fluffy and a good pick for the IW army. I guess I'd pick up 1-2 shadowspears anyways so I'll have access to Newblits as well. This combined with cultists sound quite good. But how does the MoP fit in there? The Healing Power or the Oblit buff?

This sounds like a good start for an army though

Basically the CUlt of Destruction is IW insane Science Dark Mechanicus and Daemons binding into machines. Basically the Obliterator virus incarnate list and focusing onf fusion of Daemon and machine and flesh. The MoP is there because he will help out the warpsmiths to bind daemons and boost the daemon part of the army.

That is actually a great idea!

Throw Haarkon in with the NL raptors, may be fiddly but he gives them a bit of a boost since GW un-nerfed his nerfing

I have a small IW force. I use standard marines, cultists a decimator, a couple of Hellforged Scorpius and havocs. I also like dreadnoughts( contemptor/leviathan) or a Cerastus Knight Castigator.

Night Lords, all the way.

Well background wise the Iron warriors are still a coherent legion, though with splitters (members in the black legion, warbands hostile to the primarch) - they are similar to the black legion bar I guess they put the demons in the machines not in the marines.

Night Lords are just nihilistic warbands. Up side is you can model the entire warband. Would they not have cultists or do they have cultist allies?

AVE DOMINUS NOX!!!

Night Lords Legion trait is fidgety and situational.

Iron Warriors Legion trait is useful most of the time.

Nightlords are just awesome.

Man, you guys are not making this decision easy everytime I think I settled for one faction, another one of you posts and sways me to the opposite direction.

I think I will go with the Nightlords-Killteam and IW as 40k Army as Dakka Dakka Flame suggested . This way I can have the "warband feeling" with the Nightlords in Killteam (which I could still expand to an army if I feel like it and the new Killteam-Expansions give many options to have bigger warband).

Iron Warriors just feel more "army-like" with Oblits, Hellbrutes, tanks etc.

The_Real_Chris wrote:
Well background wise the Iron warriors are still a coherent legion, though with splitters (members in the black legion, warbands hostile to the primarch) - they are similar to the black legion bar I guess they put the demons in the machines not in the marines.

Night Lords are just nihilistic warbands. Up side is you can model the entire warband. Would they not have cultists or do they have cultist allies?

I dont think it is fluffy to play cultists with Nightlords :/ which is another reason why I'd go for IW

thank you all for the replies guys!!!

No matter if "Ave dominus nox" or "Iron within, iron without" we all live to kill the false emperor!

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Throw Haarkon in with the NL raptors, may be fiddly but he gives them a bit of a boost since GW un-nerfed his nerfing

Unfortunately its just written on the WC website, but its not actually in any FAQs.

Btw, NL can stack up to -11 LD.

NL chapter tactic -3
Haarken -1
Icon of despair -1
Raptors -1
Chaos spawn -1
Butcher cannon -2
Renegade knight WLT -2

I'd reduce it to a single question: what's more difficult for you to paint, hazard stripes or lightning bolts? That would be the make-or-break question for me.

 Jimsolo wrote:
I'd reduce it to a single question: what's more difficult for you to paint, hazard stripes or lightning bolts? That would be the make-or-break question for me.

Haha, I'm a fast painter and the thing I love most about IW paint-wise are the Hazard stripes, but this would never be my main incentive to choose. I mean it sure is a factor, but the flair and character of armies is what is the main reason for me


Automatically Appended Next Post:
GW is not making this easier....