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If chaos gods are formed from the creation of strong emotions or significant emotional events, are there chaos gods for Love or Happiness? In Master of Mankind, a strong daemon's birth is described as arising as a result of the first human murder. Have smililar things been created from the birth of a child or winning the lottery? Are these all wrapped up into Slanesh?

I'm not sure, but the chaos gods stand for positive emotions as well.
Nurgle for hope is an example as far as I know.

Posetive motions you say? That is Slaaneshes ballpark. Feelings are bad, temperance is recomended.

Waaaghbert wrote:
I'm not sure, but the chaos gods stand for positive emotions as well.
Nurgle for hope is an example as far as I know.

Tzeentch is hope through change.
Nurgle is the guarantee through cycle.

Khorne is honour and a rugged rejection of the evils of witchcraft.

I would think there are... but in the Grim Darkness of the future there is only War!

It's kind of like any "interesting" setting. If the setting is safe and secure and "nice", then what significance would the conflict have?

In other words... while they may exist, they wouldn't be the focus of a wargame. If there were Valkyries, for example, that whisk worthy warriors off to the land of eternal battles and feasting, why would someone fall to Chaos? What nobility would the protagonists have, if they knew their sacrifice would be rewarded?

Though having Bloodletters take unwilling souls to the land of terror and slaughter sounds 40k ish… so maybe?

 lifeafter wrote:
If chaos gods are formed from the creation of strong emotions or significant emotional events, are there chaos gods for Love or Happiness? In Master of Mankind, a strong daemon's birth is described as arising as a result of the first human murder. Have smililar things been created from the birth of a child or winning the lottery? Are these all wrapped up into Slanesh?

The four main gods all have some positive aspects, as the other posters surprised

Also, the old fluff used to say (or at least imply) that there were plenty of other chaos gods, and the main four were only the biggest. They were also all sorts of independent daemons. So based on that interpretation, there are probably plenty of gods that represent pure love and happiness (in a corrupted, warped way). I think the new fluff has kind of moved away from that direction; the latest codices and books are written as though there are only four. Personally I liked having infinity better.

Generally, the Chaos Gods can be construed, in some cases, as emotions taken to their most extremes.

Pleasure, Perfection, Hope, Willingness to Change, Perseverance, Martial Prowess, pride, and Anger are not inherently negative things. They become negative when they become obsession, overriding reason and force you to descend into madness in order to sate yourself.

Yes, Slaanesh.

We're here for a good time, not a long time.

Sure.

Tzeentch: Hope and ambition.
Khorne: Honor and determination.
Nurgle: Contentment and a lack of despair.
Slaanesh: Pleasure and a desire to improve oneself.

Course the Dark Gods themselves seem to forget these aspects far more than they remember them.

Each of the Chaos gods do have positive emotions associated with them. In theory one could have a Chaos god that doesn't have the positive emotions drowned out by the negative, but that isn't the case because the universe is largely filled with more negative than positive.

The problem is that negative emotions got the upper hand a long time ago when the chaos gods first formed, and the chaos gods further the cycle by encouraging more of what they are made of. So its a self-fueling down spiral to "bad" being stronger. The bad fuels the chaos gods to be bad, who then in turn choose to cause more bad to happen, which fuels their own power, and so it continues.

Which means at this point, while the chaos gods do have those emotions associated with them, they aren't really gods of those emotions.

I seem to remember reading somewhere that the negative emotions (anger, fear etc) are more potent when it comes to powering warp entities because they tend to be felt more strongly than the positive emotions. That seems to fit in with the 40K grimdark ethos, even if not true in real life - in the 40k'verse happiness is a rare, fleeting commodity, nothing compared to despair, or rage, or any other of the traditional Chaos-fuel emotions.

Actually, I'd like to put out a theory that while the chaos gods -claim- to represent the positive emotions, they long since stopped actually caring about them, which has given the God-Emperor a chance to supplant them in representing and gaining domain over said emotions, such as his hope-bringer aspect and his inspiring determination and pride.

Those first few lusty days of a romance are like an inferno, the sustained love after just smouldering embers.

As such Lust is a major component of Slaanesh, yet there doesn't appear to be a God of love.

I like to think there is a deeper layer of warp, beyond the whimsical fancies of the chaos gods. This deeper layer is populated by gods which are the aggregate of deeper, 'stronger' but less 'intense'/'extreme' emotions such as love.

I kind of miss the days when the chaos gods could reflect positive emotions.

Like Khorne could reflect all anger, including the righteous kind along with determination and self pride. Nurgle is contentment, acceptance and even a love for life of all forms. Tzeentch is hope, ambition, and a sort of self assurance (I make my own destiny), and slaanesh is pleasure and perfection. Just the pursuit of their respective emotions to the unhealthy end.

I'd say so. They just don't do much. If you're the embodiment of contentment you aren't going to do much are you? You're as content as can be.

Maybe they changed this, but it used to be that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh were simply the most powerful Chaos Gods and that there were numerous other minor ones.

Right? I'm not making that up, am I?

I have a really vague recollection of a suggestion that if the Emperor were ever to properly die, the Chaos Gods would somehow be transmogrified into the positive versions of their aspects. I can't recall where I got that from, though, anyone?

Casualty wrote:
I have a really vague recollection of a suggestion that if the Emperor were ever to properly die, the Chaos Gods would somehow be transmogrified into the positive versions of their aspects. I can't recall where I got that from, though, anyone?

As I understand the "current" version of this particular bit of fluff, due to the indoctrination of the Ministorum, the collective faith of the Imperium is such that were Big E to get unplugged from his chair he'd be reborn into the warp as a full on deity in his own right, possibly powerful enough to directly battle the ruinous powers in their own domains. What those powers would look like post-War In Heaven 2.0 is unclear.

All posetive emotions are pleasurable. So unless the other 3 gods lay claim to it all positive emotions lead to slanesh eventually. Not si important for humans, but if you are an eldar it is full on crazy time. (See the Dark City, also The Fall.)

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Maybe they changed this, but it used to be that Khorne, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Slaanesh were simply the most powerful Chaos Gods and that there were numerous other minor ones.

Right? I'm not making that up, am I?

I remember that too. I think it was from the old Slaves to Darkness and The Lost and the Damned.

 Niiai wrote:
All posetive emotions are pleasurable. So unless the other 3 gods lay claim to it all positive emotions lead to slanesh eventually. Not si important for humans, but if you are an eldar it is full on crazy time. (See the Dark City, also The Fall.)

And then there's subjectivity.

To me, getting tied up and whipped up sounds awful but I know lots of people who seek that, eagerly.

Legit the best description of the chaos gods I've ever watched:

https://youtu.be/SG7VvMGw6w0?t=716

Sterling191 wrote:

Casualty wrote:
I have a really vague recollection of a suggestion that if the Emperor were ever to properly die, the Chaos Gods would somehow be transmogrified into the positive versions of their aspects. I can't recall where I got that from, though, anyone?

As I understand the "current" version of this particular bit of fluff, due to the indoctrination of the Ministorum, the collective faith of the Imperium is such that were Big E to get unplugged from his chair he'd be reborn into the warp as a full on deity in his own right, possibly powerful enough to directly battle the ruinous powers in their own domains. What those powers would look like post-War In Heaven 2.0 is unclear.

My understanding was on or off the chair he's equal to a Chaos God in strength but he can't reincarnate physically until he dies properly which would be bad because demons pour into Terra until someone around his strength gets back onto the throne.

The Emperor is John Doe Jersey.

Tzeentch and Slaanesh would be considered "positive" emotions, since they're hope and ambition, and pleasure respectively. But it's best not to think of emotions as positive and negative, since none of them are and effect you positively and negatively depending on the cause of the emotion, the strength of the emotion, and how you channel it. Anger and hatred might not seem "positive," but if you're angry at an injustice or hateful of an invading enemy then those emotions can be turned to very good outcomes. On the flipside hope and ambition seem "positive" but if hope isn't tempered with any kind of practicality then you'll probably just end up delusional, and if ambition is turned towards something like genocide then obviously the outcome will not be good for a lot of people.

Animus wrote:
Tzeentch and Slaanesh would be considered "positive" emotions, since they're hope and ambition, and pleasure respectively. But it's best not to think of emotions as positive and negative, since none of them are and effect you positively and negatively depending on the cause of the emotion, the strength of the emotion, and how you channel it. Anger and hatred might not seem "positive," but if you're angry at an injustice or hateful of an invading enemy then those emotions can be turned to very good outcomes. On the flipside hope and ambition seem "positive" but if hope isn't tempered with any kind of practicality then you'll probably just end up delusional, and if ambition is turned towards something like genocide then obviously the outcome will not be good for a lot of people.

Even Nurgle has an aspect to him that's about acceptance of your reality and perseverance through it.

It's worth remembering that Chaos isn't really inherently evil because... it's 40k, everyone is inherently evil in their own special way. Chaos is inherently chaotic, which is why it serves as the mirror to the hyper-lawful Imperium.

Chaos "isn't inherently evil", but the Chaos Gods pretty much are.

From an emotional maintenance point of view, it's probably easier to "maintain" the emotions of fear, anger, etc at high levels than it would be for the gods to maintain emotions like love, loyalty, and care.

Think of the emotional generation of eternal war on a galactic scale. I don't think you could have eternal love-ins on a city-wide scale much-less a planet even. But war? Can do.