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BrianDavion wrote:

Oggthrok wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is the last living son of the emperor, and has the full backing of the Custodes. that's gonna make openly [b] opposing him hard without being branded a heretec

I do think that, so long as the conflict remains Imperium vrs Chaos, the Imperium will stay whole. But, if Leman Russ pops out of the Warp, points at Guilliman, and yells “imposter!” ?

Then it’s on.

is it? what support could Russ gather? the space wolves sure, but... yet again you have Gulliman with the full backing of the custodes. so chances are thats about ALL Russ could gather.

Worlds loyal to the Space Wolves, Chapters who don't like the new things, Mechanicum who twig that Cawl is a heretek, anyone who thinks Guilliman can't be trusted and everyone the former factions can bring in.

pm713 wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Oggthrok wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
Gulliman is the last living son of the emperor, and has the full backing of the Custodes. that's gonna make openly [b] opposing him hard without being branded a heretec

I do think that, so long as the conflict remains Imperium vrs Chaos, the Imperium will stay whole. But, if Leman Russ pops out of the Warp, points at Guilliman, and yells “imposter!” ?

Then it’s on.

is it? what support could Russ gather? the space wolves sure, but... yet again you have Gulliman with the full backing of the custodes. so chances are thats about ALL Russ could gather.

Worlds loyal to the Space Wolves,

And how many of them are there? A handful? Fewer than the 500 Worlds, that's for sure.

Chapters who don't like the new things

And those Chapters would also rather have no reinforcements? Or oppose the will of the Custodes? Or a living Primarch?
It's okay to have stubborn Chapters, but suicidal and/or plain idiotic?
I will say, it's absolutely fine to have Chapters who see the Primaris as different, but to have ones that would outright reject them for being "not-us"? Not likely, imo.
Furthermore, Calgar becoming a Primaris was a massive cultural point that showed that a Primaris Marine could be just as accepted as a regular marine, and that action brought the old marines and Primaris together more than anything else.

Mechanicum who twig that Cawl is a heretek

This is the most likely of any to have an uprising, but even with them being *most* likely, I'd still say it's unlikely overall. Don't forget, Guilliman has been treating them very well - he's been keeping Cawl's influence as minimal as possible to placate them, he's been giving them a lot more freedom compared to the previous HLOT.

anyone who thinks Guilliman can't be trusted and everyone the former factions can bring in.

And who wouldn't trust Guilliman? Some high rankers concerned with losing their power? Cool, now who's going to fight for them in the face of a literal demigod who carries the sword of your god, and is supported by the wards of the same god?

Guilliman has so much cultural inertia in support of him, it's hard to imagine any sizeable force resisting him.

Think about this: what about if GW launches Dark Mechanicus faction? This would leave Cawl as a strong figure to fight against them and the Mechanicus would join him and leave their differences away.

About Guilliman and his brothers I have nothing more to say

Headlss wrote:
I don't like Primaris Marines. I don't like their fluff. "Like space Marines but unflawed" I don't like their rules, "like space Marines but more specialised and focused, and tougher aswell" I don't like their philosophy "like space Marines who are genetically engineered from a few handfuls of perfect warriors to be the ultimate supersoldiers, but even betterer and superer."

I don't like that they seem to be replacing space Marines. Unless.... They are explicitly in character replacing space Marines. If Gulman is making a play for the throne to set himself up as Shogun, and leave the corpse rotting on the throne as the nominal head of the imperium of course.

The old Marines aren't going to like that, they will oppose, probably reflexively, they didn't much like it the last time.

Gulman knows that of course and he knows he needs a force of loyal supporters he can comand that are a match for the Space Marines. He now has that with the Nu Marines.

Suddenly the naritive moves, Gullman sweeps out the High lords of Terra, and with his force of Nu Marines supported by Ad Mech and the Costodes declares the Old Marines ronin. Out laws.

That is a cool story you can tell with Nu Marines. Their might be others but GW isn't telling them yet.

1. They're not unflawed. They just have less flaws.
2. Specialization is why several units in different armies do better. Tell me why this is a valid complaint in any manner whatsoever. Because you can't attach a ML and Flamer in an Intercessor squad? Boohoo.
3. No different than Grey Knights or the original creation of the Custodes. Be mad at them.
4. Did you like not read any of the fluff whatsoever? This is a whole different level of bad headcanon.

Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

 Desubot wrote:
Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

Roboute deemed it okay. That's like an Angel in the setting telling you to follow commands.

It's like people here forget how high in esteem even a Primarch in stasis was held.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

Roboute deemed it okay. That's like an Angel in the setting telling you to follow commands.

It's like people here forget how high in esteem even a Primarch in stasis was held.

Yeah sure but wait till the other primarchs find out.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Headlss wrote:
I don't like Primaris Marines. I don't like their fluff. "Like space Marines but unflawed" I don't like their rules, "like space Marines but more specialised and focused, and tougher aswell" I don't like their philosophy "like space Marines who are genetically engineered from a few handfuls of perfect warriors to be the ultimate supersoldiers, but even betterer and superer."

I don't like that they seem to be replacing space Marines. Unless.... They are explicitly in character replacing space Marines. If Gulman is making a play for the throne to set himself up as Shogun, and leave the corpse rotting on the throne as the nominal head of the imperium of course.

The old Marines aren't going to like that, they will oppose, probably reflexively, they didn't much like it the last time.

Gulman knows that of course and he knows he needs a force of loyal supporters he can comand that are a match for the Space Marines. He now has that with the Nu Marines.

Suddenly the naritive moves, Gullman sweeps out the High lords of Terra, and with his force of Nu Marines supported by Ad Mech and the Costodes declares the Old Marines ronin. Out laws.

That is a cool story you can tell with Nu Marines. Their might be others but GW isn't telling them yet.

1. They're not unflawed. They just have less flaws.
2. Specialization is why several units in different armies do better. Tell me why this is a valid complaint in any manner whatsoever. Because you can't attach a ML and Flamer in an Intercessor squad? Boohoo.
3. No different than Grey Knights or the original creation of the Custodes. Be mad at them.
4. Did you like not read any of the fluff whatsoever? This is a whole different level of bad headcanon.

1. Not unflawed just less flaws translates to:
Beterrer

2. Specilization is how the Eldar play, not space Marines. Extra wounds translstes to:
Betterer

3. Grey knights and Custodes:
Also betterer

4. No, the fluff is terrible. I never read it, its practicly unreadable. However it is quite fun to hear about from other people who get excited about it.

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

Roboute deemed it okay. That's like an Angel in the setting telling you to follow commands.

It's like people here forget how high in esteem even a Primarch in stasis was held.

Yeah sure but wait till the other primarchs find out.

except that it's not like Gulliman was raiding the gene stocks of chapters. tey where using genestocks set aside as part of the tithing process specificly for such things. Experimerntation on gene seed to produce better space marines for a new founding is hardly a new thing.

I am certain that the Crimson Fists would like to string Cawl up by his ankles and beat him with pain gloves.

I know it's a long shot, but I'd like Vulkan to come back. For him it's just a matter of when, not if. He was always a people-person. Likely the most humble of all the Primarchs. While I think he'd back G-man, I know he'd have severe feelings about using people as "meat for the grinder".

I really wish we had a new loyalist primarch. Have G man out there is great and all but my god he's dull. I'd love anyone else to show up. I'm really hoping for a Lion, Russ reunification return. I know chaos would be like..Bleh..but they are getting the love right now they should be golden with their sexy new abby and spider tanks.

 Desubot wrote:
Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

Worth mentioning that not everyone was okay with the Primaris thing; the Dark Angels in particular had to be strong-armed into accepting Primaris marines into the fold and the Inner Circle keeps secrets from the Primaris recruits. But, well, it's not like the Dark Angels have the capacity to say no to Guilliman right now. Another reason why the Lion's return would make for an interesting wrinkle in the Imperium's story.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I am certain that the Crimson Fists would like to string Cawl up by his ankles and beat him with pain gloves.

Hardly, it sounds like they where very greatful for their primaris reinfrocements. Understand, the geneseed stocks being used for the Primaris project where NOT the ones avalaible to chapters. it was the geneseed tithed to terra, specificly for well.. the creation of new chapters"

BrianDavion wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:
I am certain that the Crimson Fists would like to string Cawl up by his ankles and beat him with pain gloves.

Hardly, it sounds like they where very greatful for their primaris reinfrocements. Understand, the geneseed stocks being used for the Primaris project where NOT the ones avalaible to chapters. it was the geneseed tithed to terra, specificly for well.. the creation of new chapters"

Yeah, the hundred or so years between the annihilation of Rynns World and Cawl deciding to finally share his toys, where the Crimson Fists felt they were a doomed Chapter due to a lack of Geneseed, were all forgiven because of reasons.

Personally I see it going this way:

Cawl and Guilliman see these new fancy Chaos models and aesthetic and wonder to themselves why none of their Primaris Marines have not turned.........suddenly they realise the solution to the traitor legion problems, stop producing normal Marines and start to use their existing Marines as the front line fodder, converting most of their Rhinos to chairs.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Desubot wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

Roboute deemed it okay. That's like an Angel in the setting telling you to follow commands.

It's like people here forget how high in esteem even a Primarch in stasis was held.

Yeah sure but wait till the other primarchs find out.

except that it's not like Gulliman was raiding the gene stocks of chapters. tey where using genestocks set aside as part of the tithing process specificly for such things. Experimerntation on gene seed to produce better space marines for a new founding is hardly a new thing.

Was the primarus project even known to the other primarchs?

Imagine the Daddy issues.

 Arachnofiend wrote:

 Desubot wrote:
Oh right also surprised that everyone was ok with the massive stockpile of gene seeds used to make these primaris marines that were kept secret from all the chapters for so long.

Worth mentioning that not everyone was okay with the Primaris thing; the Dark Angels in particular had to be strong-armed into accepting Primaris marines into the fold and the Inner Circle keeps secrets from the Primaris recruits. But, well, it's not like the Dark Angels have the capacity to say no to Guilliman right now. Another reason why the Lion's return would make for an interesting wrinkle in the Imperium's story.

Was there ever a thing with the iron hands and their whole the flesh is weak thing with the new primarus? i dont think nu bois came with bionics preattached.