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 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Well, you want more in depth terrain rules, and they gave them to you.

Soft and hard cover are new, they added dangerous terrain, they gave a more standard bonus to moving on roads, and added the possible penalty to hit with giving everyone the chance to hit on a "6" because of the extra modifier in addition to giving +1 AP for height instead of ignoring cover bonuses. So no, it isn't just a reprint of the cities of death rules from.the core rule book.

These all force more tactical movement, which many feel isn't present in the game. That is a good thing and a lot of folks are ignoring it while complaining about the thing it fixes.

It has huge problem with the -1 to hit. Those are awful. They hurt game so much. It's bad enough when you have -1 to hit as army trait(if it's available just take it). Now with those -1 is even more common and -2 is pretty standard as well. Have fun vs -2 and -3 without effort alaitocs. Enjoy those -2 to hit dark eldars.

Modifiers stacking on a 1d6 curve is probably the biggest flaw with the new edition in terms of the basic combat engine.

All the more reason to switch to D8. Especially with the new wounding chart, it is too easy to wound everything with anything. I'm not complaining about Lasguns causing a single wound on a Baneblade or Knight, but it should be considerably lower odds than it is now. D8 would fix that.

Not going to happen, given the relative price and availability of d6 dice vs d8 dice.

What's the availability issue?

Everyone and their mother has an Amazon account. Rich people can even get Amazon prime. In fact, speaking of Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/Random-Polyhedral-Dice-Multiple-Wiz/dp/B00C0X602W/ref=asc_df_B00C0X602W/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=198088727698&hvpos=1o7&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8601800645947659898&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=m&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9032185&hvtargid=pla-379356269684&psc=1
And I'm pretty darn sure I could find 100 for cheaper without sticking to the very first Google result.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lythrandire Biehrellian wrote:
Well, you want more in depth terrain rules, and they gave them to you.

Soft and hard cover are new, they added dangerous terrain, they gave a more standard bonus to moving on roads, and added the possible penalty to hit with giving everyone the chance to hit on a "6" because of the extra modifier in addition to giving +1 AP for height instead of ignoring cover bonuses. So no, it isn't just a reprint of the cities of death rules from.the core rule book.

These all force more tactical movement, which many feel isn't present in the game. That is a good thing and a lot of folks are ignoring it while complaining about the thing it fixes.

It has huge problem with the -1 to hit. Those are awful. They hurt game so much. It's bad enough when you have -1 to hit as army trait(if it's available just take it). Now with those -1 is even more common and -2 is pretty standard as well. Have fun vs -2 and -3 without effort alaitocs. Enjoy those -2 to hit dark eldars.

Modifiers stacking on a 1d6 curve is probably the biggest flaw with the new edition in terms of the basic combat engine.

All the more reason to switch to D8. Especially with the new wounding chart, it is too easy to wound everything with anything. I'm not complaining about Lasguns causing a single wound on a Baneblade or Knight, but it should be considerably lower odds than it is now. D8 would fix that.

Not going to happen, given the relative price and availability of d6 dice vs d8 dice.

Should step out of the GW gaming bubble. Almost all dice are the same price.

 Alphabet wrote:
Whats the model that seems to have fur on its shoulder? Looks like an incubi but never seen one like that.

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/Ynnari-Triumvirate-Of-Ynnead-2017

Okay so, is this topic actually going somewhere or are we discussing anything but the actual subject matter itself? Asking for a friend..

Just heard confirmation of this on the latest Splintermind podcast episode. I imagine they will have playtested it. "Will definitely change the meta".

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/22/white-dwarf-preview-may/

Getting Hyped!

17 powerful Stratagems, as well as 6 each of the following: Warlord Traits, Relics of Ynnead, Tactical Objectives and psychic powers from the Revenant discipline

Well, the Assassin stuff clearly didn’t see much playtesting beyond „let‘s throw crazy OP gak 4x better than any other 85 pts. Character in there to shift copies“, so who knows what Ynnari will turn out to be.

 Galef wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/04/22/white-dwarf-preview-may/

Getting Hyped!

17 powerful Stratagems, as well as 6 each of the following: Warlord Traits, Relics of Ynnead, Tactical Objectives and psychic powers from the Revenant discipline

Yeah, just read this, i already ask my local for a WD pre-order. Its going to be a large change, but for the better and i cant wait.

With 17 Stratagems, I kinda hope "Soulburst" is a thing of the past and you get to "move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, etc" through those Strats instead.

Really, that's all you'd need to make Ynnari and "thing". You take the 3 Characters in a Supreme Command detachment, or "buy" them with 1 CP like Assassins and if you include any in your Army, you get access to the Ynnari Strats, Relics, WL traits, etc.
But you don't give up you CWE, DE or Harlie traits to get anything other than that.
It would make it MUCH less complicated and if the Strats are good, it will still be worth mixing Aeldari, but in separate detachments without all the snowflake rules around them

-

 Galef wrote:
With 17 Stratagems, I kinda hope "Soulburst" is a thing of the past and you get to "move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, etc" through those Strats instead.

Really, that's all you'd need to make Ynnari and "thing". You take the 3 Characters in a Supreme Command detachment, or "buy" them with 1 CP like Assassins and if you include any in your Army, you get access to the Ynnari Strats, Relics, WL traits, etc.
But you don't give up you CWE, DE or Harlie traits to get anything other than that.
It would make it MUCH less complicated and if the Strats are good, it will still be worth mixing Aeldari, but in separate detachments without all the snowflake rules around them

-

That would be busted... If Dark Reapers could stay Altaioc and double-shoot you've just buffed them even further. :-p

Personally i would completely redo Ynnari and make it like a PFP chart, but you army gets it for each detachment with a Ynnari character, the PFP chart goes up for each unit that dies, to a max of 6

Something like

1 Kill - Gains +1" to all movement, advancement, charges
3 kills - Gains +1 strengthin melee
5 kills - Ignore a -1 to hit modifier
7 Kills - etc..
etc..

Or You have Soulburst tokens, and each kill gives you a token, then you can use it, Movement is 2, shooting again is 3, melee again is 3, additional power is 2, charge is 1. Its like CP but you can use them on other stratagems.

Thats my dream, i know many dont like it, but i think its more fluffy and fun.

NewTruthNeomaxim wrote:

 Galef wrote:
With 17 Stratagems, I kinda hope "Soulburst" is a thing of the past and you get to "move twice, shoot twice, fight twice, etc" through those Strats instead.

Really, that's all you'd need to make Ynnari and "thing". You take the 3 Characters in a Supreme Command detachment, or "buy" them with 1 CP like Assassins and if you include any in your Army, you get access to the Ynnari Strats, Relics, WL traits, etc.
But you don't give up you CWE, DE or Harlie traits to get anything other than that.
It would make it MUCH less complicated and if the Strats are good, it will still be worth mixing Aeldari, but in separate detachments without all the snowflake rules around them

-

That would be busted... If Dark Reapers could stay Altaioc and double-shoot you've just buffed them even further. :-p

Would you feel the same is the "Shoot twice" strat was 3CPs?

-

 Galef wrote:
Would you feel the same is the "Shoot twice" strat was 2-3CPs?

Would you feel the same if it was just "shoot twice" as long as they moved no more than half their movement?

Or if moving twice was just an "order"/ability an officer a Swarmlord Ynnari character could hand out. No CP. No roll to succeed. No way to deny. Not even Vect. Nothing

Having all the rules on the characters like the Swarmlord is a really good way to balance Ynnari actually.

They are just given the Keyword and rules for traits like normal, but also has SFD as a once a game ability.

Not very fun or fluffy, but its more balance and in line with 8th.

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Would you feel the same if it was just "shoot twice" as long as they moved no more than half their movement?

As long as they're now large models without an invulnerable save, who can't move back into cover / out of line of sight after shooting, sure!

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Or if moving twice was just an "order"/ability an officer a Swarmlord Ynnari character could hand out. No CP. No roll to succeed. No way to deny. Not even Vect. Nothing

As long as they can't shoot or assault after moving twice, sure!

 Horst wrote:


As long as they're now large models without an invulnerable save, who can't move back into cover / out of line of sight after shooting, sure!

Someone forgot to tell the Tallarn (who don't even need to waste CP doing it; of which they usually have 4x as many as any Ynnari army ... + CP farming)

 Horst wrote:


As long as they can't shoot or assault after moving twice, sure!

Someone forgot to tell those pesky Genestealers (which only cost like 1/4 of a Shining Spear too)




Not to mention none of those lose their chapter tactics, their free relic, etc.., etc.., etc..

 Amishprn86 wrote:
Having all the rules on the characters like the Swarmlord is a really good way to balance Ynnari actually.

They are just given the Keyword and rules for traits like normal, but also has SFD as a once a game ability.

Not very fun or fluffy, but its more balance and in line with 8th.

No thanks. I don't want the rules for the faction to be tied to special characters showing up to every single game. It should be possible to take a generic character as Ynnari warlord.

Iracundus wrote:
No thanks. I don't want the rules for the faction to be tied to special characters showing up to every single game. It should be possible to take a generic character as Ynnari warlord.

I can see where you are coming from with this, but also remember that he Gathering Storm story line (which introduced the Ynnari) pretty clearly shows that the followers of Ynnead only became so because Yvraine showed up.
So in that regard, Ynnari requiring 1 of the 3 Characters to be present is the one example in all of 40K in which it makes fluff-sense to require the character.

-

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Horst wrote:


As long as they're now large models without an invulnerable save, who can't move back into cover / out of line of sight after shooting, sure!

Someone forgot to tell the Tallarn (who don't even need to waste CP doing it; of which they usually have 4x as many as any Ynnari army ... + CP farming)

 Horst wrote:


As long as they can't shoot or assault after moving twice, sure!

Someone forgot to tell those pesky Genestealers (which only cost like 1/4 of a Shining Spear too)




Not to mention none of those lose their chapter tactics, their free relic, etc.., etc.., etc..

If you are trying to convince people that Genestealers or Tallarn are better than Ynnary I believe you are gonna have a hard time.

 Galas wrote:


If you are trying to convince people that Genestealers or Tallarn are better than Ynnary I believe you are gonna have a hard time.

I am trying to convince people that there is a wide variety of rules beyond just stratagems in the game that allow double-activations and many of them are superior to soul burst.

If soul burst was the part that was broken, Dark Eldar Ynnari would beat Craftworld Ynnari, as non-Ynnari Dark Eldar beat non-Ynnari Craftworld.

The problem isn't soul burst. It's mostly eldar psychic powers and buffs, most notably doom.

Remove doom from the game, and Ynnari is mid-tier at best, even with 2017-style soul burst.

Inversely, if Tyranids or Tallarn had Doom, they'd be far superior to Ynnari, not least because they have far superiour double-activation mechanics at far lower opportunity costs.

Well, yes. The problem is the giant combination of mechanics and buffs that makes things OP. Just like everything else that is too powerfull in 8th.

At least for 8th edition theres hasn't been a unit that was OP by itself, like 7th Wraith Knight. I suppose the most similar thing were 3ppm 40-man conscripts but they needed the fearless from Commisars and you can't win a game with just conscripts unlike Scatterbikes or WK's in 7th.

Also double turn activation is entirely dependant in what you are double activating. If you could active a 10-man grot unit three times in one round nobody would bat an eye. Double active a Castellan and...

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Remove doom from the game, and Ynnari is mid-tier at best, even with 2017-style soul burst.

Yo let me get this straight.... So majority of people seem to agree ynnari ruleset is out of whack and is causing issues with balance(like all soup). And your idea is to nerf CWE to bring them down from what you percieve top tier to garbage tier just so yinnari can be mid tier at best? So the CWE players will really have to go ynnari now because they wont be able to compete otherwise? which will make more people ynnari? I dont even know what to say.

Regarding the article, I cringed when I read that.... you can check out the extensive bestiaries on Yvraine, the Visarch and the Yncarne Not sure how extensive bestiary you can have on a not ver extensive faction compromising of 3 special charcters... Its clear GW designers just doesnt care lol.
Seems to me they are trying AOSYify 40k and shoehorn Aeldari into a ynnari superfaction and force it onto people.. Lame.

Ynarri are the reason I've actually had any interest in eldar(all kinds) at all. Didnt really like them in RT/2nd and never really thought about them since. I Really like the whole death fuels them aspect and hope the WD rules actually tone down/expand on what can be done when with soulburst.

I've been holding off on adding any more models to my force until they get some actually unique feeling rules. If they get some wraithguard/knight bonuses (what I want to build/add next) I'll be all over that.

Ynnari is 3 model kit as a faction.. Everything else is craftworld or DE or harlequins.. You are basicaly playing those armies because thats where the models come from. I'd be happy if ynnari got some unique troops models for their own as an army. Would solve some problems and the rest of the codexes could be left alone regaridng points etc.

Why do you feel you need ynnari to make a wraith construct army? You could just make a list with a bunch of wraith constructs..

FYI - There are special rules for yanden craftworldm, its a special detahcment fromt he first vigilius book I believe. Its not ground breaking but sort of useful.

Also if ynnari consume all the dead there will be constructs...

 Argive wrote:
Ynnari is 3 model kit as a faction.. Everything else is craftworld or DE or harlequins.. You are basicaly playing those armies because thats where the models come from. I'd be happy if ynnari got some unique troops models for their own as an army. Would solve some problems and the rest of the codexes could be left alone regaridng points etc.

Why do you feel you need ynnari to make a wraith construct army? You could just make a list with a bunch of wraith constructs..

FYI - There are special rules for yanden craftworldm, its a special detahcment fromt he first vigilius book I believe. Its not ground breaking but sort of useful.

Also if ynnari consume all the dead there will be constructs...

Its suppose to be other armies tho, Yvarine a literal Cult within the Aeldari race, Lelith, Eldrad, and others have joined her, they didnt change who they are, or what they do, just their religious beliefs.

Then why do they get new rules etc. if they dont change who they are or how they do things? Just give them a couple units like harlequins and call them a faction.

Anyway. I feel its just a very slow proces to blend the eldar factions into one AOS style "good" "chaso" "Death" thing. They keep nerfing individual units form their respective codexes to countrer the fact they are too powerful as ynnari. 3 special characters should nto have an impact on the game and 3 codexes.. its silly... Anywy it is what it is. I wont loose ny mroe energy tryign to discuss. Its another trend down the path of sameness...

 Argive wrote:
Then why do they get new rules etc. if they dont change who they are or how they do things? Just give them a couple units like harlequins and call them a faction.

Anyway. I feel its just a very slow proces to blend the eldar factions into one AOS style "good" "chaso" "Death" thing. They keep nerfing individual units form their respective codexes to countrer the fact they are too powerful as ynnari. 3 special characters should nto have an impact on the game and 3 codexes.. its silly... Anywy it is what it is. I wont loose ny mroe energy tryign to discuss. Its another trend down the path of sameness...

They dont get new rules they get more powerful b.c other things around them dies, b.c Yvarine is able to harvest souls for her army, everyone already has soul stones, she made a better use for them and Yncarne.

I am actually looking forward to this. I have a TON of Dark Eldar models, but I would almost rather turn them into Ynnari so I can get some of the cool looking Craftworlds stuff and maybe even some Harlies. I hope they aren't broken though.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Galas wrote:


If you are trying to convince people that Genestealers or Tallarn are better than Ynnary I believe you are gonna have a hard time.

I am trying to convince people that there is a wide variety of rules beyond just stratagems in the game that allow double-activations and many of them are superior to soul burst.

If soul burst was the part that was broken, Dark Eldar Ynnari would beat Craftworld Ynnari, as non-Ynnari Dark Eldar beat non-Ynnari Craftworld.

The problem isn't soul burst. It's mostly eldar psychic powers and buffs, most notably doom.

Remove doom from the game, and Ynnari is mid-tier at best, even with 2017-style soul burst.

Inversely, if Tyranids or Tallarn had Doom, they'd be far superior to Ynnari, not least because they have far superiour double-activation mechanics at far lower opportunity costs.

This is so accurate. Doom is just such a huge force multiplier in this meta, that it becomes so difficult to balance anything. Take it away and suddenly you can start buffing underused aeldari units with fewer risk.

Hey, I'm just happy they previewed the article without using the word "bespoke".