Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've just finished off the new book and as far as I can gather, nothing really happened. Am I missing something? No one major died... the planet's still there... the gauntlet's still going strong... Abby fluffed his lines and slinked away...

The only difference post Vigilus to the wider narrative (that I can tell) is that Vigilus is in ruins but still hotly contested. I suppose everyone's one step closer to understanding blackstone and the effects it can have on the warp. What do you guys think?

Don't get me wrong, I loved the book and the new models. Highlight of my weekend, picking that stuff up.

I think they left it open for a third book at a later time.

We will likely go to other warzones for a couple of books, and then late in the year, or early next year, return to Vigilus for the final showdown.

other warzones is about garenteed. given that the book ends with astropathics reporting Sanga Terra is under attack by the planet killer.

I loved the rules but I was really disappointed with the fluff.

There were a few great moments. Guilliman killing off members of the ruling council for the alliance with the eldar was brilliant. It’s the perfect example of what 40k writing could be.

But overall it was very average. Each page described some crippling Xenos or Chaos attack. It Went in depth about how it couldn’t be overcome and then quickly explained how a 1 in a million plan worked out. Given the number of long odds, Calgar should go buy a lottery ticket

The gravity super weapon was as dumb as it was pointless. No real change was effected and it shouldn’t have been in the story. Hell they should have used it on the loyalist fleet, secured space, and bombard the planet.

Abaddon was incredibly bland especially after everything they did in the black legion books. He essentially did a multi-page”i’ll get you he-man”. I think the most insulting thing is that he took calgar’s challenge. For a dude that hated Horus for his choice at the siege, he sure did make the same one. They ruined what little credibility chaos had after the gathering storm. So much for Vigilus will fal to The Warmaster:

I don’t think the Imperium actually lost in any theatre either. Other than hand waived casualties, no lasting damage was done by any other faction.

Honestly, this is why campaigns shouldn’t focus on the most critical planets in the galaxy or feature big names characters. Nothing is going to happen with them so you’re always going to get more status quo. If Vigilus had been an important supply world near the gauntlet, there could be actual stakes because the outcome won’t drastically change the setting. If the warlords aren’t 30+ year old named characters, there’s some tension because anyone can die at that point.

I kinda was bummed that the book never really explained what the traitor regiments did. Nor the mortwald incident.

I've always wondered why we worry so much about characters dying in the story lines. It's not as if Calgar were to die in the books, suddenly he couldn't be used to play on the game table.

Warhammer 40K isn't Legend of the Five Rings.

Not Online!!! wrote:
I kinda was bummed that the book never really explained what the traitor regiments did. Nor the mortwald incident.

mostly die so the marines didn't have to I imagine...
Kinda like their loyalist counterparts.

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I kinda was bummed that the book never really explained what the traitor regiments did. Nor the mortwald incident.

mostly die so the marines didn't have to I imagine...
Kinda like their loyalist counterparts.

Well one would still expect something more out of it, especially why even mention them then in the first place with full numbers.

Makes no sense and would have made for better explanation of the AL f.e.

It's just annoying to see the numbers get just glossed over. Altough will fully admit to beeing biased.


Also found the calgar scene seriously anticlimactic.

Not Online!!! wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
I kinda was bummed that the book never really explained what the traitor regiments did. Nor the mortwald incident.

mostly die so the marines didn't have to I imagine...
Kinda like their loyalist counterparts.

Well one would still expect something more out of it, especially why even mention them then in the first place with full numbers.

Makes no sense and would have made for better explanation of the AL f.e.

It's just annoying to see the numbers get just glossed over. Altough will fully admit to beeing biased.


Also found the calgar scene seriously anticlimactic.

the calgar scene is something that when just described as part of a general ooverview is kinda meh but at the same time you look at it and think "this could be an amazing novel if told by the right writer"

Did Orks do anything of note? Every breakdown of the book I've listened to or read covered the imperium vs chaos fight including Calgsr vs Abby, they included much about fallen and DA, Eldar and their role. I even saw a bit about GSC getting screwed over pretty hard. I've seen literally nothing about Orks excluding the fact that they were used as a buffer to delay Chaos and the main boss died in an orbital bombardment? Was that it?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Did Orks do anything of note? Every breakdown of the book I've listened to or read covered the imperium vs chaos fight including Calgsr vs Abby, they included much about fallen and DA, Eldar and their role. I even saw a bit about GSC getting screwed over pretty hard. I've seen literally nothing about Orks excluding the fact that they were used as a buffer to delay Chaos and the main boss died in an orbital bombardment? Was that it?

That one speedfreak Warboss, annoyed everyone. Krooldakka i belive his name is.

Seems like a cool dude, also got special attention from Abby for annoying him.

Quite the feat.

Reading this book was painful. Great world building but a terrible story. I really wish they'd pick up their game.

I did not expect any characters to die, but I expected something of wider note to happen. There were all of these events, and at the end it added up to... Essentially nothing. Vigilis is devastated (as any war zone) but the overall picture is the same; the Imperium maintains limited hold, the path through the rift is there, orks & stealers are running around, with others lurking in the background. The Imperium does not control as much as they did, the chaos presence is stronger, and the path through the rift has shrunk a little, but in terms of narrative overall that means little to nothing.

It also got tiring reading "here is how the Imperium got its ass kicked in this warzone" over and over with little break. But a massive redeeming factor was the Chaos experience not being one-note; most of their assaults worked well but some encountered troubles or even failed entirely. That sort of mixed results I like to see.

Also, going into the Calgar-Eldar negotiations I was expecting to be rolling my eyes over 'and then they united against the common foe and won' but was really happy to see how they -executed- that plot element.

Calgar and Abaddon both just had a new model released. If you think either one was going to die... that would have been a pipe dream.

Calgar's laid up in bed with almost no defenders left, the orks and GSC are still running wild, there's no navy support, and the planet killer is heading for Sangua Terra so the gauntlet's still in trouble.

We'll probably get the rumored Blood Angels vs Khorne book there, then a finale for Vigilus.

 cole1114 wrote:
Calgar's laid up in bed with almost no defenders left, the orks and GSC are still running wild, there's no navy support, and the planet killer is heading for Sangua Terra so the gauntlet's still in trouble.

We'll probably get the rumored Blood Angels vs Khorne book there, then a finale for Vigilus.

yeah I can't imagine Blood angels not being front and center of a book named Sanguna Terra.

BrianDavion wrote:

 cole1114 wrote:
Calgar's laid up in bed with almost no defenders left, the orks and GSC are still running wild, there's no navy support, and the planet killer is heading for Sangua Terra so the gauntlet's still in trouble.

We'll probably get the rumored Blood Angels vs Khorne book there, then a finale for Vigilus.

yeah I can't imagine Blood angels not being front and center of a book named Sanguna Terra.

The funny thing is, Vigilus is on their side of the gauntlet. So it would have made more sense for them to be there. But hey, maybe Calgar and Dante are trading places.

I got the sense they were too depleted from nid-nomming to even send anything.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Did Orks do anything of note? Every breakdown of the book I've listened to or read covered the imperium vs chaos fight including Calgsr vs Abby, they included much about fallen and DA, Eldar and their role. I even saw a bit about GSC getting screwed over pretty hard. I've seen literally nothing about Orks excluding the fact that they were used as a buffer to delay Chaos and the main boss died in an orbital bombardment? Was that it?

That one speedfreak Warboss, annoyed everyone. Krooldakka i belive his name is.

Seems like a cool dude, also got special attention from Abby for annoying him.

Quite the feat.

Thanks for the info! Did he not die? I read somewhere he was killed by something falling on him?

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Did Orks do anything of note? Every breakdown of the book I've listened to or read covered the imperium vs chaos fight including Calgsr vs Abby, they included much about fallen and DA, Eldar and their role. I even saw a bit about GSC getting screwed over pretty hard. I've seen literally nothing about Orks excluding the fact that they were used as a buffer to delay Chaos and the main boss died in an orbital bombardment? Was that it?

That one speedfreak Warboss, annoyed everyone. Krooldakka i belive his name is.

Seems like a cool dude, also got special attention from Abby for annoying him.

Quite the feat.

Thanks for the info! Did he not die? I read somewhere he was killed by something falling on him?

Dunno, maybee, it's an Ork though so he be back

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I got the sense they were too depleted from nid-nomming to even send anything.

I thought some time has passed between the Devastation of Baal and the battle for Vigilus. Long enough for the Blood Angels to assimilate the Primaris into their ranks and start inducting some of the new Scouts too.

Than again, wibbly wobbly timey wimey.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Calgar and Abaddon both just had a new model released. If you think either one was going to die... that would have been a pipe dream.

I wasn't expecting either of these guys to die. I had heard rumours of someone like Dante biting the dust though... and then passing the rubicon primaris on their triumphant return.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:
Did Orks do anything of note? Every breakdown of the book I've listened to or read covered the imperium vs chaos fight including Calgsr vs Abby, they included much about fallen and DA, Eldar and their role. I even saw a bit about GSC getting screwed over pretty hard. I've seen literally nothing about Orks excluding the fact that they were used as a buffer to delay Chaos and the main boss died in an orbital bombardment? Was that it?

That one speedfreak Warboss, annoyed everyone. Krooldakka i belive his name is.

Seems like a cool dude, also got special attention from Abby for annoying him.

Quite the feat.

Thanks for the info! Did he not die? I read somewhere he was killed by something falling on him?

One of them did die but for the life of me I can't remember which one. One thing I did like about the orks was the big scrap they have with the heretic titans. After chaos realise they can't ignore the orks anymore, they send the titans in and there's a big old scrap! Again though, for the life of me I can't remember the outcome. They're really not the focus of the book.

I was personally disappointed with the "lore". Seemed kinda drawn out; like they were just trying to fill a book, not make anything permenant.

And WTF...Calgar...how stupid is it that not once, but twice, his primary heart gets "shorn in two". Was GW so lacking in creativity that they couldn't think of some other wound?

And what about the plot hole where the blackstone shards are "pointing" at the other planet that forms the Gauntlet? Why was that one not targeted also? Destroy one and theoretically the Gauntlet disappears, right?

It was targeted, but the offensive for chaos did not go so well. They only needed to get one, so it makes sense to focus on the one that is most vulnerable.

 Lord Clinto wrote:
I was personally disappointed with the "lore". Seemed kinda drawn out; like they were just trying to fill a book, not make anything permenant.

And WTF...Calgar...how stupid is it that not once, but twice, his primary heart gets "shorn in two". Was GW so lacking in creativity that they couldn't think of some other wound?

And what about the plot hole where the blackstone shards are "pointing" at the other planet that forms the Gauntlet? Why was that one not targeted also? Destroy one and theoretically the Gauntlet disappears, right?

they did go after it, that's where the planet killer was sent

The problem with the current style of GW writing is it is too impressionistic and lacking in hard detail.

For example, it is hard to get a sense of how much time passes in the Vigilus conflict. I think it is only a passing comment about how the request for Assassins took a decade before the paperwork was completed on Terra. So the conflict seems to have taken over a decade.

GW now is not giving dates in what passes for their timelines in each Codex. Probably because they kept having inconsistencies. Seriously, fans were doing a better job keeping track of everything than GW.

Basically now their Cicatrix timey-wimey distortion acts as a catch-all excuse for sloppy writing and lack of quality control editing.

The ridiculously low Imperial Guard force details is also annoying as it seems that they are not even mentioned except as an afterthought to show how terrible they are and how good the Marines or CSM are. While this has always been an issue with GW for decades, it has been especially bad of late with the Marines seeming more like the line infantry of the Imperium. I don't like how 40K seems to be devolving into a good knights vs bad knights paradigm, with the xenos and non-Marines having even less lore spotlight than before (except as just cannon fodder or the opening act for the main Marine vs CSM show).

What I want is a more detailed campaign book sort of like the first Taros campaign account from Forge World, where it at least gave detailed force breakdowns and movements and step by step walk through of the different stages of the campaign, including that of the spaceships. These days GW hardly even bothers depicting the space combat in any detail.

Did the Eldar actually do anything? Or will I just pick it up to meet new characters that'll just be killed off?

Redseer wrote:
Did the Eldar actually do anything? Or will I just pick it up to meet new characters that'll just be killed off?

Not much, this is very much chaos v imperium. They did a deal with Calgar, as mentioned above Calgar allowed them to kill the planetary council which was their reason to be there in return for an alliance. Their jet bikes went around the wastes gathering up a massive army of orks chasing them. Then turned towards the iron Warriors position chardged them before zooming off into the sky at the last minute leaving the iron Warriors to fight the orks.

They also supplied the ship that rammed the vengeful Spirit.

Pandion40 wrote:

Redseer wrote:
Did the Eldar actually do anything? Or will I just pick it up to meet new characters that'll just be killed off?

Not much, this is very much chaos v imperium. They did a deal with Calgar, as mentioned above Calgar allowed them to kill the planetary council which was their reason to be there in return for an alliance. Their jet bikes went around the wastes gathering up a massive army of orks chasing them. Then turned towards the iron Warriors position chardged them before zooming off into the sky at the last minute leaving the iron Warriors to fight the orks.

They also supplied the ship that rammed the vengeful Spirit.

Thank you. I was honestly expecting a generic betrayal scenario ending with the Eldar getting purged.

I bought this book because it seemed like an event to get into, having not read much, if any 40K lore/novels for a few years.

Man did this feel like a waste of my money. It seemed like it was trying to be something for almost everyone but ended up just feeling scattershot and watered down. Granted, I didn’t get into any of the previous Vigilus items, so maybe I went in half blind. I was expecting Chaos v. Imperium and got Imperium v. Orks, Chaos v. GSC, Eldar v. Imperium, and every combination of those, and all of it in too general of a scope to get invested into any of it. Art and production value was pretty good though.

Really all I learned is that Calgar can take an asswhooping like a champ(though he’s getting into Glass Joe territory, imo.) and Abbadon really loves his ship.

I’d prefer, like Iracundus, a drastically more focused story, very much like the Taros campaign. It would most certainly limit sales to just the few playerbases involved in the campaign, but I think the storytelling could be of a much better quality, or at least more concise.

Edit: The above is solely about the fluff/lore and not the rules. I don’t play 40K so I can’t speak to their quality.