Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Marin wrote:


That was answered after the big faq 1, unit in transport are counted to be on the battlefield, so they are not triggering forewarned, since they are not set outside of the battlefield even for a second.

? can you link that.

I remember it the exact opposite. All (more case-specific) FAQ state that units in transports are NOT on the battlefield.

If you only have 2 Stormravens with Tactical Marines inside, you are tabled as per Boots on the Ground, as you only have Flyers on the table (because units in transports aren't)
If you have characters with auras/abilities in a transport, they don't work because those models aren't on the table (e.g. CP farming).
Etc...

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

Some rules – such as Early Warning Override in Codex: T’au Empire, the Ever Vigilant Stratagem in Codex: Adeptus Custodes, and the Auspex Scan Stratagem in Codex: Space Marines – allow units to shoot at enemy units that have just arrived on the battlefield as reinforcements, as if it were the Shooting phase.

Q: If the unit arriving as reinforcements has another unit embarked inside it which must disembark after it has been set up (such as units embarked within a Drop Pod, or a Tyrannocyte), can the firing unit shoot at the unit as it disembarks?
A: No – though the unit can shoot at the Drop Pod/Tyrannocyte before the units inside disembark.

Clear as daylight.

That has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

Marin wrote:

https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/warhammer_40000_rulebook_en.pdf

Some rules – such as Early Warning Override in Codex: T’au Empire, the Ever Vigilant Stratagem in Codex: Adeptus Custodes, and the Auspex Scan Stratagem in Codex: Space Marines – allow units to shoot at enemy units that have just arrived on the battlefield as reinforcements, as if it were the Shooting phase.

Q: If the unit arriving as reinforcements has another unit embarked inside it which must disembark after it has been set up (such as units embarked within a Drop Pod, or a Tyrannocyte), can the firing unit shoot at the unit as it disembarks?
A: No – though the unit can shoot at the Drop Pod/Tyrannocyte before the units inside disembark.

Clear as daylight.

That's talking about disembarking from a vehicle that itself is arriving from reinforcements. That's not what they were talking about, which was a vehicle that has been on the board that turn having units disembark from it and whether they count as reinforcements.

RAW BCB is right, they had talked about units embarked counting as being on the board only for counting against the 50% rule without looking at other considerations. I would not be surprised if they meant it to count toward other things like not being able to shoot disembarking passengers with things like forewarned, and certainly the game is generally played this way, but the writing of the rule doesn't make that clear.

Can I auspex scan units disembarking from a vehicle? Don't think I've ever had the opportunity to do so but it would be nice to know that you can. Pretty nutts if eldar can get a free shot at ant unit that disembarks from a vehicle in front of a unit withing 6" of a farseer though.....I mean....transports are so bad. The only transport that is good is one you don't get out off.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can I auspex scan units disembarking from a vehicle? Don't think I've ever had the opportunity to do so but it would be nice to know that you can. Pretty nutts if eldar can get a free shot at ant unit that disembarks from a vehicle in front of a unit withing 6" of a farseer though.....I mean....transports are so bad. The only transport that is good is one you don't get out off.

I really think you can`t, if that was allowed they should have answered yes for both as usual.
For me it`s clear that they don`t think reinforcement rules are applied to disembarking units.

Oh, I agree that it's almost certainly not the intention, that disembarking units are considered reinforcements.

But it's also clear they don't consider units in transport as being on the battlefield/table, for which there are several FAQ precedents and atm. there is no way to set up a unit on the battlefield/table post-deployment and not be reinforcements.

Maybe the FAQ will give use a proper, unambiguous, crystal clear even-for-12-year-olds-who-never-visited-a-forum-and-are-allegedly-part-of-GW's-target-group run down on reinforcements, tactical reserves, extra-move abilities, stratagem interactions, summoning, etc.., etc.. as it keeps popping up (Adepticon again ruled that warptime after DMC was ok, so hey...).

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Maybe the FAQ will give use a proper, unambiguous, crystal clear even-for-12-year-olds-who-never-visited-a-forum-and-are-allegedly-part-of-GW's-target-group run down on reinforcements, tactical reserves, extra-move abilities, stratagem interactions, summoning, etc.., etc.. as it keeps popping up (Adepticon again ruled that warptime after DMC was ok, so hey...).

No. For whatever reason GW likes badly worded, ambiguous rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can I auspex scan units disembarking from a vehicle?

Yes, you can. Because disembarking units are reinforcements. Auspex scan works against reinforcements. The special snowflake FAQ mentioned above says you cant use it on a transport which arrived from reinforcements, but you can use it on a unit disembarking which is already on the battlefield.

 p5freak wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Maybe the FAQ will give use a proper, unambiguous, crystal clear even-for-12-year-olds-who-never-visited-a-forum-and-are-allegedly-part-of-GW's-target-group run down on reinforcements, tactical reserves, extra-move abilities, stratagem interactions, summoning, etc.., etc.. as it keeps popping up (Adepticon again ruled that warptime after DMC was ok, so hey...).

No. For whatever reason GW likes badly worded, ambiguous rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can I auspex scan units disembarking from a vehicle?

Yes, you can. Because disembarking units are reinforcements. Auspex scan works against reinforcements. The special snowflake FAQ mentioned above says you cant use it on a transport which arrived from reinforcements, but you can use it on a unit disembarking which is already on the battlefield.

I`m pretty sure you can`t, they are not getting redeployed, they are just moving away from the transport. They are not using teleport or any tactical reserve stuff.
The snowflake FAQ work for teleport and disembark is not.

Marin wrote:

I`m pretty sure you can`t, they are not getting redeployed, they are just moving away from the transport. They are not using teleport or any tactical reserve stuff.
The snowflake FAQ work for teleport and disembark is not.

I'm pretty sure you can. Units that disembark are set up. Any unit that is set up is treated as reinforcements. Here are the rule citations.

Reinforcements
Many units have the
ability to be set up on
the battlefield mid-turn,
sometimes by using
teleporters, grav chutes or
other, more esoteric means.
Typically, this happens at
the end of the Movement
phase, but it can also
happen during other
phases.

Transport
Disembark: Any unit that begins its Movement phase embarked
within a transport can disembark before the transport moves.
When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that all of
its models are within 3" of the transport and not within 1" of any
enemy models – any disembarking model that cannot be set up in
this way is slain.

Now please quote your rule citations that make you think it doesnt work.

It’s eldar and people are surprised? We knife ears can honestly do whatever we want. Hey, my guardians hit on 2 Rerolling 1 and then Reroll I g further 1, wound on 2’s rerolling 1 and then further 1, and I auto win cause knife ears., I’m not even kidding, if anyone argues it’s because they are Aeldari. And if they are Aeldari, THEN you have to play the game.

 p5freak wrote:

Marin wrote:

I`m pretty sure you can`t, they are not getting redeployed, they are just moving away from the transport. They are not using teleport or any tactical reserve stuff.
The snowflake FAQ work for teleport and disembark is not.

I'm pretty sure you can. Units that disembark are set up. Any unit that is set up is treated as reinforcements. Here are the rule citations.

Reinforcements
Many units have the
ability to be set up on
the battlefield mid-turn,
sometimes by using
teleporters, grav chutes or
other, more esoteric means.
Typically, this happens at
the end of the Movement
phase, but it can also
happen during other
phases.

Transport
Disembark: Any unit that begins its Movement phase embarked
within a transport can disembark before the transport moves.
When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that all of
its models are within 3" of the transport and not within 1" of any
enemy models – any disembarking model that cannot be set up in
this way is slain.

Now please quote your rule citations that make you think it doesnt work.

I agree - the key word here is "set up" it hadn't occurred to me in game but this actually should work because of the way disembark works.

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
It’s eldar and people are surprised? We knife ears can honestly do whatever we want. Hey, my guardians hit on 2 Rerolling 1 and then Reroll I g further 1, wound on 2’s rerolling 1 and then further 1, and I auto win cause knife ears., I’m not even kidding, if anyone argues it’s because they are Aeldari. And if they are Aeldari, THEN you have to play the game.

Well, it's Eldar. And T'au. And Adeptus Custodes. And Space Marines. And Inquistion through Inquisitor Coteaz. And probably others that aren't occurri9ng to me now.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Marin wrote:

I`m pretty sure you can`t, they are not getting redeployed, they are just moving away from the transport. They are not using teleport or any tactical reserve stuff.
The snowflake FAQ work for teleport and disembark is not.

I'm pretty sure you can. Units that disembark are set up. Any unit that is set up is treated as reinforcements. Here are the rule citations.

Reinforcements
Many units have the
ability to be set up on
the battlefield mid-turn,
sometimes by using
teleporters, grav chutes or
other, more esoteric means.
Typically, this happens at
the end of the Movement
phase, but it can also
happen during other
phases.

Transport
Disembark: Any unit that begins its Movement phase embarked
within a transport can disembark before the transport moves.
When a unit disembarks, set it up on the battlefield so that all of
its models are within 3" of the transport and not within 1" of any
enemy models – any disembarking model that cannot be set up in
this way is slain.

Now please quote your rule citations that make you think it doesnt work.

I agree - the key word here is "set up" it hadn't occurred to me in game but this actually should work because of the way disembark works.

REINFORCEMENTS
Many units have the ability to be set up on the battlefield mid-turn, sometimes by using teleporters, grav chutes or other, more esoteric means. Typically, this happens at the end of the Movement phase, but it can also happen during other phases. Units that are set up in this manner cannot move or Advance further during the turn they arrive – their entire Movement phase is used in deploying
to the battlefield – but they can otherwise act normally (shoot, charge, etc.) for the rest of their turn. Units that arrive as reinforcements count as having moved in their Movement phase for all rules purposes, such as shooting Heavy weapons (pg 180). Any
unit that has not arrived on the battlefield by the end of the battle counts as having been destroyed.

Reinforcmentrs cannot move after they are set up and disembark units can, that shows that they are not counted as reinforcements regardless the wording. Disembark is on the start of the phase and reserve is in most cases at the end of it, so it`s easy to distinct them.

The FAQ is quite clear, regardless if your transport come from reserve or not you are unable to shoots on units that disembark.
Even with 2 potential triggers - transport cumming from reserve and unit disembark you can`t shoot them.

When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately – declare what units are
embarked inside the transport when you set it up.

The units are within the transport and are set with it, you are just reading to much into the use of the some 2 words.

In the errata they already answered this issue, if you wanna accept it or not is other issue.

Marin wrote:


The FAQ is quite clear, regardless if your transport come from reserve or not you are unable to shoots on units that disembark.
Even with 2 potential triggers - transport cumming from reserve and unit disembark you can`t shoot them.

When you set up a transport, units can start the battle embarked within it instead of being set up separately – declare what units are
embarked inside the transport when you set it up.

The units are within the transport and are set with it, you are just reading to much into the use of the some 2 words.

In the errata they already answered this issue, if you wanna accept it or not is other issue.

If you're talking this FAQ:

Q: If the unit arriving as reinforcements has another unit embarked inside it which must disembark after it has been set up (such as units embarked within a Drop Pod, or a Tyrannocyte), can the firing unit shoot at the unit as it disembarks?
A: No – though the unit can shoot at the Drop Pod/Tyrannocyte before the units inside disembark.


then you are grossly misrepresenting what the FAQ says. It clearly states "the unit arriving as reinforcement has another unit embarked inside it", which means that they are specifically talking about a vehilce which entered that turn as refinforcement.. It makes absolutely no claims as to how to handle passengers disembarking from vehicles that did not just arrive as reinforcements.

 p5freak wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Maybe the FAQ will give use a proper, unambiguous, crystal clear even-for-12-year-olds-who-never-visited-a-forum-and-are-allegedly-part-of-GW's-target-group run down on reinforcements, tactical reserves, extra-move abilities, stratagem interactions, summoning, etc.., etc.. as it keeps popping up (Adepticon again ruled that warptime after DMC was ok, so hey...).

No. For whatever reason GW likes badly worded, ambiguous rules.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can I auspex scan units disembarking from a vehicle?

Yes, you can. Because disembarking units are reinforcements..

No they are not so you can not. Units disembarking from a vehicle do not fit into the reinforcements category, because with reinforcements "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", which is not the case with units disembarking from a transport.

 DeathReaper wrote:
No they are not so you can not. Units disembarking from a vehicle do not fit into the reinforcements category, because with reinforcements "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", which is not the case with units disembarking from a transport.

Actually, "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", but they also have a special rule allowing them to move after disembarking.

They aren't mutually exclusive, Specific overrides General, etc. etc.

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
No they are not so you can not. Units disembarking from a vehicle do not fit into the reinforcements category, because with reinforcements "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", which is not the case with units disembarking from a transport.

Actually, "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", but they also have a special rule allowing them to move after disembarking.

They aren't mutually exclusive, Specific overrides General, etc. etc.

You clealry do not understand what entire Movement phase means.

Therefore your argument is not correct.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 DeathReaper wrote:
No they are not so you can not. Units disembarking from a vehicle do not fit into the reinforcements category, because with reinforcements "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", which is not the case with units disembarking from a transport.

Actually, "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", but they also have a special rule allowing them to move after disembarking.

They aren't mutually exclusive, Specific overrides General, etc. etc.

You clealry do not understand what entire Movement phase means.

Therefore your argument is not correct.

"Children are not allowed into the yellow room at any time."
"Bob, however, may go into the yellow room on Fridays between one and two."

The specific Disembarking rule grants an exception to the reinforcement rule.

 DeathReaper wrote:

 p5freak wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Maybe the FAQ will give use a proper, unambiguous, crystal clear even-for-12-year-olds-who-never-visited-a-forum-and-are-allegedly-part-of-GW's-target-group run down on reinforcements, tactical reserves, extra-move abilities, stratagem interactions, summoning, etc.., etc.. as it keeps popping up (Adepticon again ruled that warptime after DMC was ok, so hey...).

No. For whatever reason GW likes badly worded, ambiguous rules.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Can I auspex scan units disembarking from a vehicle?

Yes, you can. Because disembarking units are reinforcements..

No they are not so you can not. Units disembarking from a vehicle do not fit into the reinforcements category, because with reinforcements "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield", which is not the case with units disembarking from a transport.

Da jump and gate happen outside of the movement phase, would they too not be reinforcements then? You can clearly move units and then gate or da jump them, so they are not using up their entire movement phase to come in as reinforcements.

 BaconCatBug wrote:
The specific Disembarking rule grants an exception to the reinforcement rule.

No, it really does not. There is nothing in disembarking that says anything about reinforcements.

blaktoof wrote:

Da jump and gate happen outside of the movement phase, would they too not be reinforcements then? You can clearly move units and then gate or da jump them, so they are not using up their entire movement phase to come in as reinforcements.

It would seem that Da jump and gate are not reinforcements

Since, for reinforcements, "their entire Movement phase is used in deploying to the battlefield." so if a unit moves then their entire Movement phase was not used in deploying to the battlefield.

Reinforcements also states that any unit set up mid turn is reinforcements. It even LITERALLY says that this can happen outside of the movement phase.

blaktoof wrote:

Da jump and gate happen outside of the movement phase, would they too not be reinforcements then? You can clearly move units and then gate or da jump them, so they are not using up their entire movement phase to come in as reinforcements.

Last time i read both rules it says they are set up. Unless the april FAQ dropped, and it was changed, they are reinforcements.

You cannot, use forwarned or auspex scan on units disembarking. Please do not attempt to confuse people about this.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You cannot, use forwarned or auspex scan on units disembarking. Please do not attempt to confuse people about this.

Really? I do it all the time. Sure the typical person grumbles and sometimes cries but.. rules is rules and rules is based on wording so..

 Eihnlazer wrote:
You cannot, use forwarned or auspex scan on units disembarking. Please do not attempt to confuse people about this.

True, while disembarking units are "reinforcements" as per the BRB definition, they are not "arriving as reinforcements", thus don't trigger the stratagems.

Broken Clock is Right Twice a Day I suppose.

Or maybe they are arriving. You can easily argue that line of logic too.

Disembarking and Reinforcements are two areas of the rules that could really use some revising to match how GW understands them to work compared to the RAW (excluding FAQ answer).

Pain4Pleasure, how are you auspex scanning units coming out of a transport when there is a direct faq stating you cannot?

If you want a quote im sure its already up in this discussion.

Its the one that says you cant shoot the unit coming out of the drop pod when the pod deep strikes.

If you cant shoot them then, you cant shoot them ever with such stratagems.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pain4Pleasure, how are you auspex scanning units coming out of a transport when there is a direct faq stating you cannot?

If you want a quote im sure its already up in this discussion.

Its the one that says you cant shoot the unit coming out of the drop pod when the pod deep strikes.

If you cant shoot them then, you cant shoot them ever with such stratagems.

Not using auspex, that’s marines and of course they couldn’t shoot they are inferior. I’m using g eldar and forewarned due to being eldar, I choose how things happen so point, click, delete unit. Perks of being the stuck up elves, you get to do whatever you want


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pain4Pleasure, how are you auspex scanning units coming out of a transport when there is a direct faq stating you cannot?

If you want a quote im sure its already up in this discussion.

Its the one that says you cant shoot the unit coming out of the drop pod when the pod deep strikes.

If you cant shoot them then, you cant shoot them ever with such stratagems.

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pain4Pleasure, how are you auspex scanning units coming out of a transport when there is a direct faq stating you cannot?

If you want a quote im sure its already up in this discussion.

Its the one that says you cant shoot the unit coming out of the drop pod when the pod deep strikes.

If you cant shoot them then, you cant shoot them ever with such stratagems.

Not using auspex, that’s marines and of course they couldn’t shoot they are inferior. I’m using g eldar and forewarned due to being eldar, I choose how things happen so point, click, delete unit. Perks of being the stuck up elves, you get to do whatever you want

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
Pain4Pleasure, how are you auspex scanning units coming out of a transport when there is a direct faq stating you cannot?

If you want a quote im sure its already up in this discussion.

Its the one that says you cant shoot the unit coming out of the drop pod when the pod deep strikes.

If you cant shoot them then, you cant shoot them ever with such stratagems.

Not using auspex, that’s marines and of course they couldn’t shoot they are inferior. I’m using g eldar and forewarned due to being eldar, I choose how things happen so point, click, delete unit. Perks of being the stuck up elves, you get to do whatever you want

Which is exactly the same wording at Marines, other than eligible unit. Therefore follows the same rules.

Nah fam I’m eldar, I shoot em. Let the tears flow