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So every time AOS does a new release like this I start toying with the idea of taking the plunge. (Usually, money/life prevents me from pulling the trigger until the next new release tempts me back in.)

When Gloomspite Gitz got he recent revamp I loved all the adverts they did, and I think the models are amazing. When I got into 40k at the launch of 8th edition I was also drawn to the models for the Sylvaneth. So that faction interests me enough as well.

When Soul Wars released I fell in love with the Nighthaunt models and I also found the Stormcast models to be inoffensive but I LOVED the gold armor scheme (plus they seem easy enough to paint, which as I'm still new to the hobby is a pretty big plus for me.)

So now I'm looking at the new Looncurse box and wondering what my best bet is if I do end up buying into the hobby. Should I grab Looncurse or Soul Wars? Which armies are better for a brand new player? Which armies are more expensive in the long run? I know that there are lots of Stormcast v Nighthaunt starter boxes. Does that make those armies cheaper to get into?

Thanks for the help!

I don't remember the Nighthaunt ratio in Soul Wars, but the most annoying aspect about Soul Wars is the fact that you don't get full squads of the stuff in the box(at least for Stormcast). In the Looncurse box you will at least get the normal box and unit sizes.

If you are into the lore, the very nice core book included with soul wars makes that the better option. If you aren't bothered about that, Looncurse is probably a better choice.

I'd recommend Looncurse over Soul Wars. Yeah, it doesn't come with the full big rulebook, but you don't really need that full book, just the insert with the core rules that comes in these box sets. It also has full unit sizes, and IIRC, these boxed sets come with the actual sprues and not push-fit minis, so you get the full options for each included model.

The nonsense about "not full unit sizes" or "no options" for the Stormcast in Soul Wars is a bit silly.

The Chainrasps have parts so that you can build a "Dreadwarden"(their unit champion) or rank and file.
The Sequitors come with an oversized minimum unit(8 rather than 5), but also include the unit upgrade weapon(the two-handed hammer).

Soul Wars was built with people being able to take advantage of understrength unit rules and with the Easy to Build kits that were available from day one in mind.

Soul Wars plus Storm Strike is what GW has been pushing people towards, and making it clear that not all of it is required right from the outset but it's a good way to build towards.

If you don't have paints, Soul Wars also goes great with Nighthaunt and Stormcast paint sets--bolstering out the 8 Sequitors(which has 3 models with Greatmaces, including a Sequitor Prime) to 11 Sequitors, with an extra Greatmace or Sequitor Prime depending on how you want to build the unit.

Then of course there is Tempest of Souls as well, which is half of the Soul Wars content at around half the price.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I don't remember the Nighthaunt ratio in Soul Wars, but the most annoying aspect about Soul Wars is the fact that you don't get full squads of the stuff in the box(at least for Stormcast). In the Looncurse box you will at least get the normal box and unit sizes.

How bad are the non-full squads in soul wars, and what would it take for me to make them full squads? just buy one of the other starter boxes? Just trying to get an idea of cost on this. But judging by the other responses I will probably go Looncurse (money permitting).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
The nonsense about "not full unit sizes" or "no options" for the Stormcast in Soul Wars is a bit silly.

The Chainrasps have parts so that you can build a "Dreadwarden"(their unit champion) or rank and file.
The Sequitors come with an oversized minimum unit(8 rather than 5), but also include the unit upgrade weapon(the two-handed hammer).

Soul Wars was built with people being able to take advantage of understrength unit rules and with the Easy to Build kits that were available from day one in mind.

Soul Wars plus Storm Strike is what GW has been pushing people towards, and making it clear that not all of it is required right from the outset but it's a good way to build towards.

If you don't have paints, Soul Wars also goes great with Nighthaunt and Stormcast paint sets--bolstering out the 8 Sequitors(which has 3 models with Greatmaces, including a Sequitor Prime) to 11 Sequitors, with an extra Greatmace or Sequitor Prime depending on how you want to build the unit.

Then of course there is Tempest of Souls as well, which is half of the Soul Wars content at around half the price.

Didn't see your post when I asked the other guy about making the units into full sizes. That's good to know. Thanks for the detailed write up on the soul wars stuff!

Soul Wars and Storm Strike/Tempest of Soul might be nice for someone just getting into the hobby with a friend, but as an entry point for a single individual it is a bit steep unless they are planning to start two armies at once. It is at least going to be easier to sell one half of Looncurse and recuperate costs as they are whole kits that have probably saturated the market less than the Soul Wars Starters.

I mean, I am stuck with the 3 evocators because I just can't justify buying Tempest of Souls to get those last 2 to get a whole squad. Sadly Storm strike is not enough to fill up the Evocator part.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

How bad are the non-full squads in soul wars, and what would it take for me to make them full squads? just buy one of the other starter boxes? Just trying to get an idea of cost on this. But judging by the other responses I will probably go Looncurse (money permitting).

Basically to get the Stormcast filled out you would need Soul Wars and Tempest of Souls. At least that way you get a 5 man Evocator squad.

With Nighthaunt in Soul Wars it is:

4 x Grimghast, but they are fielded in units of 10. You get 4 more in Tempest of Souls

5 x Glaivewraith Stalkers, but they are fielded in units of 4. You get 4 more in Storm Strike or 5 in Tempest of Souls.

20 x chainrasps which is a neat double squad. 10 more in Tempest of Souls.

balmong7 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
I don't remember the Nighthaunt ratio in Soul Wars, but the most annoying aspect about Soul Wars is the fact that you don't get full squads of the stuff in the box(at least for Stormcast). In the Looncurse box you will at least get the normal box and unit sizes.

How bad are the non-full squads in soul wars, and what would it take for me to make them full squads? just buy one of the other starter boxes? Just trying to get an idea of cost on this. But judging by the other responses I will probably go Looncurse (money permitting).

There's 5 "non-full squads"...but it's not because they are understrength in the case of 3.
Only the Grimghast Reapers are wildly unusable from the outset(they include a set of 4 when the minimum unit size is 10).

The Grimghast Reapers come with their 'bell ringer' option as part of the box, with you being able to replace it with a scythe armed model for duplicates(Tempest of Souls includes the same sprue that gives you 4 Grimghasts as Soul Wars, so the two bring you up to 8).

Glaivewraiths(the horsefaced ones) are overstrength, coming in a set of 5 for Soul Wars. They're only available as Soul Wars/Tempest of Souls or the Easy to Build version(which includes the Drummer, only option the unit has). They come in units of 4 and the Easy to Build set is 4, with the Drummer able to be assembled as either a Drummer or another Glaivewraith.


Sequitors come in a set of 8 in Soul War, with 2 Greatmaces and 2 leaders(one with a Greatmace). Greatmaces are the unit upgrade weapon. Add the Easy to Build Sequitor set from Storm Strike I linked earlier and you can set up two units of 5 or 1 unit of 10 and have a spare leader.

Castigators come in a set of 5 in Soul War, with a leader and 4 rank and file. The unit size is 3, so when coupled with the Easy to Build set that's in Storm Strike it sets you with a unit of 3 and a unit of 6--plus a Gryph-Hound that is only available in that set, in case you opt for one of the Gryph-Hound characters(Lord-Veritant or Lord-Castellant) and you don't like the sculpt included with them.

Evocators come in a set of 3 in Soul War, with a leader and 2 rank and file. The unit size is 5, and they're sold in sets of 5 for $50. If you were to buy Soul Wars and Tempest of Souls however, you'd end up with 5 Evocators(2 leaders and 3 rank and file)...and since the box of 5 includes a weapon option (Grandstaves can be taken on all of them) that isn't in the Soul Wars/Tempest of Souls sets and allows for you to build a Knight-Incantor different to the Soul Wars set one, opening you up to have 2 units of 5 plus three Knight-Incantors if you've nabbed all of the aforementioned sets(which is a hefty chunk of points I might add--Evocators are understrength because they are a STRONG unit).

 Kanluwen wrote:

How bad are the non-full squads in soul wars, and what would it take for me to make them full squads? just buy one of the other starter boxes? Just trying to get an idea of cost on this. But judging by the other responses I will probably go Looncurse (money permitting).

There's 5 "non-full squads"...but it's not because they are understrength in the case of 3.
Only the Grimghast Reapers are wildly unusable from the outset(they include a set of 4 when the minimum unit size is 10).

balmong7 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

There's 5 "non-full squads"...but it's not because they are understrength in the case of 3.
Only the Grimghast Reapers are wildly unusable from the outset(they include a set of 4 when the minimum unit size is 10).

I'm unfamiliar with the rules for list building in AOS. What exactly is "understrength"? That's not something we have in 40k.

You buy units based upon a certain number of models.

Using Evocators as an example, they are pointed in sets of 5. If you field 3? You pay the same points as 5, just you get 3.

 Kanluwen wrote:

balmong7 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

There's 5 "non-full squads"...but it's not because they are understrength in the case of 3.
Only the Grimghast Reapers are wildly unusable from the outset(they include a set of 4 when the minimum unit size is 10).

I'm unfamiliar with the rules for list building in AOS. What exactly is "understrength"? That's not something we have in 40k.

You buy units based upon a certain number of models.

Using Evocators as an example, they are pointed in sets of 5. If you field 3? You pay the same points as 5, just you get 3.

Is there some advantage to doing that? it seems silly to do.

It's basically meant for anyone playing with any of the starter set items, whether it be Soul Wars or the previous starter.

In both cases, Stormcast have had a few understrength units(Retributors with the previous starter and Evocators now)--because those units are fairly powerful and quite a bit more crazy when dealing with the constraints of the starter sets.

Get looncurse. Soul wars suffers from non-standard unit sizes and perhaps more importantly wild imbalances between the two forces and within them. The stormcast side will crush the nighthaunt side, glaivewraith stalkers are simply terrible (and I mean terrible), etc. Core rulebooks are cheap to get off ebay.


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balmong7 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

balmong7 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

There's 5 "non-full squads"...but it's not because they are understrength in the case of 3.
Only the Grimghast Reapers are wildly unusable from the outset(they include a set of 4 when the minimum unit size is 10).

I'm unfamiliar with the rules for list building in AOS. What exactly is "understrength"? That's not something we have in 40k.

You buy units based upon a certain number of models.

Using Evocators as an example, they are pointed in sets of 5. If you field 3? You pay the same points as 5, just you get 3.

Is there some advantage to doing that? it seems silly to do.

It is simpler. Which is a pretty silly reason, but it is what it is. All upgrades and equipment options are free too. It is 40k power levels all the time.

Yet from what I hear from the 40k players coming to AoS it is still more balanced.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Get looncurse. Soul wars suffers from non-standard unit sizes and perhaps more importantly wild imbalances between the two forces and within them. The stormcast side will crush the nighthaunt side, glaivewraith stalkers are simply terrible (and I mean terrible), etc. Core rulebooks are cheap to get off ebay.

Your experiences must vary, because I never had good luck with the Stormcast half. But in general I think Stormcast kinda aren't great. It might be something I'm doing wrong or just in general that I'm more interested in the Vanguard side of things, but eh.

As a note, not directed specifically at you, because over the years I constantly have been accused of shilling for GW or just being an apologist in general:
I'd rather help someone figure out a way to make something they like work than tell them "It sucks, do this other thing instead".

Looncurse is going to be GREAT for anyone wanting to do Squigalanche builds. It's going to, in my opinion, not be as helpful to anyone wanting to do other builds.
We have no idea what the hell the plan is for Sylvaneth, so if you don't already own the 'core' of a Sylvaneth army(Treelords, Dryads, etc)? I can't in good faith say "This is a great buy for someone wanting to play Sylvaneth!", but I can say "It's a great value".

As much as people hated on Soul Wars, I've seen more people happy with Nighthaunt and the Sacrosanct than not. It's also a good buy-in, IMO, because it includes the Core Book which has not just rules but fluff.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The nonsense about "not full unit sizes" or "no options" for the Stormcast in Soul Wars is a bit silly.

The Chainrasps have parts so that you can build a "Dreadwarden"(their unit champion) or rank and file.
The Sequitors come with an oversized minimum unit(8 rather than 5), but also include the unit upgrade weapon(the two-handed hammer).

Chainrasps and Ballista are the only unit in that box that come in legal (for matched play) unit size without down-sizing or weird upsizing.

Stormcast have the 8 sequitors which you can't easily expand to 10 because the "easy to collect" box has one more Prime and two normal dudes when you need 3 normal dudes.
Castigators come in 5, when unit is either 3 or 6. Buying the Easy to Collect gives you 8 instead of 9, and a gryph-hound that the unit can't take.
Evocators don't even come in the minimum size of 5, and the only easy way to bolster their size is to buy the Stormsire Underworlds box and use the two evocators from there.

Nighthaunt are just as bad
You get 4 reapers, and minimum size is 10, and there is no way to easily get more. You can buy some spares on ebay, and you end up with enough models to form 10-strong unit and two spare bell-ghosts
Glaivewraith stalkers you have 5...for a unit that comes in multiples of 4. You buy the Easy to collect and end up with 9 instead of 8.

So really, the box is horrible when it comes to getting you a legal matched play army, even small one, and filling up those units requires Ebay or swapping with other players a lot.

For nighthaunts, the box is worth it only due to the 20 chainrasps and full set of heroes that are not available elsewhere (Knight on horse, lamp guardian).

Try reading more than one post in a thread. I literally laid out how to do things and ways to make things work.

Oh I think Soul Wars is great, the OP was just specifically asking which to start with and I feel a detailed breakdown is probably not what he's looking for.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Try reading more than one post in a thread. I literally laid out how to do things and ways to make things work.

Which involves multiple extra purchases and ending up with spares. At that point might as well throw out the most useless stuff (like Grimghasts) and buy a normal box of them. From a new player's perspective, the box is terrible way to actually start a legal playable army.

Cronch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Try reading more than one post in a thread. I literally laid out how to do things and ways to make things work.

Which involves multiple extra purchases and ending up with spares.

Two extra purchases(the paint sets) gets your Sequitors and Glaivewraiths to playable levels with an additional model spare, each.
Storm Strike collects all 4 of the Easy Build sets, discounted to $40 from $60, letting a Nighthaunt player add an additional unit(Myrmourn Banshees) while fleshing out the Glaivewraiths into 2 units of 4 and having a spare and letting a Stormcast player bump up the Sequitors to 2 units of 5(2 Greatmaces per 5 models) with an optional unhelmed Sequitor-Prime with Maul+Shield.

If you want to pretend that those are "breaking the bank" for anything barring the Grimghasts? That's your perogative.

At that point might as well throw out the most useless stuff (like Grimghasts) and buy a normal box of them.

At this point, nobody knows what the hell was being thought with regards to Grimghasts. The same goes for Chainrasps at $40 for 10.

From a new player's perspective, the box is terrible way to actually start a legal playable army.

"From a new player's perspective", they're going to be more concerned about learning the rules and getting stuff built without getting overwhelmed.

And additionally, "from a new player's perspective"? They have a whole fricking booklet that comes within the box that details battleplans for them to play using the models in the box.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Try reading more than one post in a thread. I literally laid out how to do things and ways to make things work.

Which involves multiple extra purchases and ending up with spares.

Two extra purchases(the paint sets) gets your Sequitors and Glaivewraiths to playable levels with an additional model spare, each.
Storm Strike collects all 4 of the Easy Build sets, discounted to $40 from $60, letting a Nighthaunt player add an additional unit(Myrmourn Banshees) while fleshing out the Glaivewraiths into 2 units of 4 and having a spare and letting a Stormcast player bump up the Sequitors to 2 units of 5(2 Greatmaces per 5 models) with an optional unhelmed Sequitor-Prime with Maul+Shield.

If you want to pretend that those are "breaking the bank" for anything barring the Grimghasts? That's your perogative.

At that point might as well throw out the most useless stuff (like Grimghasts) and buy a normal box of them.

At this point, nobody knows what the hell was being thought with regards to Grimghasts. The same goes for Chainrasps at $40 for 10.

From a new player's perspective, the box is terrible way to actually start a legal playable army.

"From a new player's perspective", they're going to be more concerned about learning the rules and getting stuff built without getting overwhelmed.

And additionally, "from a new player's perspective"? They have a whole fricking booklet that comes within the box that details battleplans for them to play using the models in the box.

So three extra purchases that leave one with spare models, under-optimized equipment loadouts, and/or paints that may or may not be wanted. As compared to Looncurse, where there are no extra purchases needed to make the starter units playable in the format everyone uses. Were I a new player I would vastly prefer not having to worry about it. Looncurse will have a booklet too, so no difference there.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So three extra boxes that still leaves one with spare models, under-optimized equipment loadouts, and paints that may or may not be wanted.

It's almost like I suggested "if you don't have paints, Soul Wars also goes great with" and linked to the paint sets...

Also, lol @ "under-optimized equipment loadouts". Greatmaces are everywhere that I've seen.

As compared to Looncurse, where there are no extra purchases needed to make the starter units playable in the format everyone uses. Were I a new player I would vastly prefer not having to worry about it. Looncurse will have a booklet too, so no difference there.

"Understrength units" are a thing in Matched Play. Not my problem if you want to pretend they're not.

And let's not pretend that understrength Evocators aren't still a hefty unit.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
So three extra boxes that still leaves one with spare models, under-optimized equipment loadouts, and paints that may or may not be wanted.

It's almost like I suggested "if you don't have paints, Soul Wars also goes great with" and linked to the paint sets...

Also, lol @ "under-optimized equipment loadouts". Greatmaces are everywhere that I've seen.

As compared to Looncurse, where there are no extra purchases needed to make the starter units playable in the format everyone uses. Were I a new player I would vastly prefer not having to worry about it. Looncurse will have a booklet too, so no difference there.

"Understrength units" are a thing in Matched Play. Not my problem if you want to pretend they're not.

And let's not pretend that understrength Evocators aren't still a hefty unit.

That is a very disingenuous argument, and speaks quite poorly to your position that you are even making it.

"You can legally handicap yourself with no benefit."

Great advice to a new player.

Yeah I love the models in soul wars but with how units work in AoS the distribution of models is just a pain in the arse.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

That is a very disingenuous argument, and speaks quite poorly to your position that you are even making it.

"You can legally handicap yourself with no benefit."

Look, the guy asked about Soul Wars. I listed literally everything that I can think of/have looked at with regards of how to make it work.

You can keep saying that I'm being disingenuous, but I'm not the one handwaving things away with "the format everyone uses". If people are so rigid that they can't work with a brand new player, it doesn't matter what the guy buys because I can almost guarantee you that he won't be coming back to play.

Great advice to a new player.

Frankly, pretending that all your advice is to "a new player" that is getting into Matched Play right from the outset is just as disingenuous.

If we're going to get caught up on this nonsense, when I'm defining someone as "a new player"? I'm assuming that they have 0 experience with the game system and want to learn before regularly playing in league nights or any other such events.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

That is a very disingenuous argument, and speaks quite poorly to your position that you are even making it.

"You can legally handicap yourself with no benefit."

Look, the guy asked about Soul Wars. I listed literally everything that I can think of/have looked at with regards of how to make it work.

You can keep saying that I'm being disingenuous, but I'm not the one handwaving things away with "the format everyone uses". If people are so rigid that they can't work with a brand new player, it doesn't matter what the guy buys because I can almost guarantee you that he won't be coming back to play.

Great advice to a new player.

Frankly, pretending that all your advice is to "a new player" that is getting into Matched Play right from the outset is just as disingenuous.

If we're going to get caught up on this nonsense, when I'm defining someone as "a new player"? I'm assuming that they have 0 experience with the game system and want to learn before regularly playing in league nights or any other such events.

He has explicitly stated that he plays 40k and has referenced point costs. The overwhelming majority of games in either system are matched play. I think it is disingenuous and extremely unreasonable to assume anything other than matched play. Given that evidence, I made the assumption matched play is what he would be engaged in and based my advice accordingly. "The system everyone plays" may seem as hyperbole at first read but any use experienced on the forum will know the above is what I meant, including you. You then stated I was advising a player getting into matched play, which is not what I did, using whataboutism to completely avoid addressing the argument I actually made. You followed this by labelling my position as nonsense, then gave a definition of new player that is clearly and explicitly not valid in the context of this thread.

I will chime in that I agree - soul wars is not a good box if you are getting into matched play.

The stormcast warband from Nightvault gets your evocators up to full strengthen gives you another hero. If you buy the easy build sequitors and your converting abilities are OK, you can build 10 sequitors and six Castigators which makes the stormcast side fully playable with two more purchases and no wasted figures. The nighthaunt side is fine except for the grimghast Reapers which are pretty difficult to make up to a full unit.
If all of this bothers you and matched play is your goal, the I would get looncurse.
That said with the big core book included the soul wars box is much better value. If you want that book, buy Soul wars.

auticus wrote:
I will chime in that I agree - soul wars is not a good box if you are getting into matched play.

Well, for Nighthaunt you would want at least two of them, simply because it's the only way to get the Guardian of Souls, Mounted KoS and the cheapest way to get chainrasp hordes. What I did was convert one of the extra Glavewraith Stalkers to a Grimghast reapers, so that I end up with five for a set.

For Stormcast, I agree. I ended up with a real funky number of models, and I am not sure why I decided buy more than one set, or just buy the characters instead.

Wow I was not expecting this to blow up like it. Thank you guys so much for all of the posts. If I'm being completely honest. It's looking like I'm going to go with Looncurse because even if it gets priced at $160 it will still be a little bit cheaper than soul wars + tempest of souls. However, it was very helpful reading your rule breakdowns and purchase/price point breakdowns. You guys are awesome.

balmong7 wrote:
I'm unfamiliar with the rules for list building in AOS. What exactly is "understrength"? That's not something we have in 40k.

Yes we do. Not particularly competive option and some tournaments ban it but it's bit better than in AOS as in 40k you only pay for models you use. Not pay for 5, use 3 like in AOS.