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 Xenomancers wrote:

Ehhh - I agree that things are more in balance now but lots of the relic guns are really good IMO.

Storm spear relic is reroll all hits ap-3 +12 range.
Endless furry is god teir.
Tyranis melta gets 2d6 damage at all ranges and +12 range.
Relic fist is flat 8 damage and doesn't suffer hit penalty.

Those are all really good.

Sure, but I'd rather stand off at 48"/80" with a giant gun than try to get within 24" for melta / punching range if shooting something was my goal.

What sheet has the castellan point increase?

Where are people seeing the Castellan points change? I can't see any points changes in the Knights FAQ?

 buddha wrote:
What sheet has the castellan point increase?

Down at the end of the main FAQ. The weapons went up in cost. Maybe it's there because it reprices for both loyalist and chaos.

 Galef wrote:

Will be interested to see how this will effect "top-lists" since Ynnari have been nerfed and the Castallan is +100pts more and can't have 3++ anymore.
Loyal 32 are still a thing.

-

The Jim Vesal special (and all other Plaguebearer stuff) got better, if anything, with Lootaz nerf.

Tau will still murder everything in Europe.

Imperial soups with Krast Crusaders remain untouched, and Smash/Shield Captains are ready for a come-back.

Eldar Flyer spam is probably still there. It's the Eldar list least affected by the doom-nerf and benefits from the Loota-nerf and the Mental Onslaught nerf. Also, all other Eldar(soup) builds just got hit 10x harder with the Doom nerf. The Aircraft thing seems minor in comparison, IMO.


Orks and GSC are probably out, before they even arrived (especially some of the variant Orks stuff like Meganobz lists, etc.. which are collateral damage to the Lootaz nerf).

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

Ehhh - I agree that things are more in balance now but lots of the relic guns are really good IMO.

Storm spear relic is reroll all hits ap-3 +12 range.
Endless furry is god teir.
Tyranis melta gets 2d6 damage at all ranges and +12 range.
Relic fist is flat 8 damage and doesn't suffer hit penalty.

Those are all really good.

Sure, but I'd rather stand off at 48"/80" with a giant gun than try to get within 24" for melta / punching range if shooting something was my goal.

Castellan sure has the range advantages but also has 4 melta guns with 12 inch range. Before those were basically free. Now with the price increase you need to use those meltas or a crusader with a relic is probably a better choice because it's also great in CC too.

 Insectum7 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
What sheet has the castellan point increase?

Down at the end of the main FAQ. The weapons went up in cost. Maybe it's there because it reprices for both loyalist and chaos.

FAQ for which book? It's definitely not in the Imperial Knights Faq I'm looking at.

Torquar wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:

 buddha wrote:
What sheet has the castellan point increase?

Down at the end of the main FAQ. The weapons went up in cost. Maybe it's there because it reprices for both loyalist and chaos.

FAQ for which book? It's definitely not in the Imperial Knights Faq I'm looking at.

Just the big overall FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_update_April_2019_en.pdf

Regarding Deathwatch:

I'm trying to remember as I don't have the codex handy at work, but I'm thinking that originally a Captain couldn't take a Xenophase blade with a Storm Bolter or Storm Shield.

The FAQ clarifies that I can now take SB/XB together, but (again, I don't have the codex handy) does this clarification make it so I can take the Xenophase blade with a Storm Shield?

Regarding SIA + Bolter Discipline:

Seems fair. You can still use Bolter Discipline, just not at the same time as SIA. And now Terminators and Bikers in mixed Veterans units can use Bolter Disclipine (before they really couldn't because they didnt have Terminator or Biker keywords)

Regarding Knights:

Happy that they capped the invuln at 4++ (I own a castellan and 3 knights for what it's worth).
Sad that they increased the Castellan cost so much. Maybe 50 points, but 100? Ehhhh, you already didn't see them in mono Knights, and now you literally never will. Heck, if anything, they could have just increased the Imperium Castellan by 50 and dropped the cost of the Chaos version by 50 to represent the difference in strength that Relics and Traits provide to the Imperium models.

I don't like the change to Raven Guard strat/similar at all.

I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.

I'm never going to stop being salty about this until they fix it. Also taking Bolter Discipline from vehicles was a stupid choice. It finally did something to help Rhinos this edition and made a Land Raider pattern vehicle viable in armies and they took it away instead of addressing why no one really runs those vehicles in the first place. This feels like a case of survivor's bias at work.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?

Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.

Actually my Crusaders have 2 Heavy Stubbers, Heavy Flamer, Ironstorm Missile Pod,and then RFBC, and Avenger Gatling. All for 210 point less. So all told it averages out to 35 shots. The Castellan averages to 23.5. Now the castellan shots are better.. but 210 points better? And weight of fire is something going for it. And the Heavy Flamer auto hitting is useful for a model that can almost always walk from combat.

 Galas wrote:
Q3) Are the Daemon Prince datasheet from Codex: Chaos Space
Marines, the Daemon Prince of Chaos datasheet from Codex:
Chaos Daemons, the Daemon Prince of Nurgle datasheet from
Codex: Death Guard, and the Daemon Prince of Tzeentch
datasheet from Codex: Thousand Sons all considered different
datasheets for the purposes of the Organised Events guidelines?
A3) No. For the purposes of these guidelines all these
datasheets are all considered to be the same.


Goodbye 9 demon princes!

no one ever play anymore 9 DP since long time, welcome instead DP's can again charge over those pesky screens

No-one else going to mention that chaos legion traits now apply to all characters? Lord discordant and steed riders just got a lovely boost

They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit rolls.

??? They fire one shot at range and two up close.
The ability specifically calls out an extra shot if the target is within 1/2 weapon range - so only rapid fire range. Odd.

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.

I'm never going to stop being salty about this until they fix it. Also taking Bolter Discipline from vehicles was a stupid choice. It finally did something to help Rhinos this edition and made a Land Raider pattern vehicle viable in armies and they took it away instead of addressing why no one really runs those vehicles in the first place. This feels like a case of survivor's bias at work.

The vehicle bolter nerf is unnecessary. I think you are right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Antubis wrote:
No-one else going to mention that chaos legion traits now apply to all characters? Lord discordant and steed riders just got a lovely boost

LEGIT!!!

 ClockworkZion wrote:
I see GW still won't back down from the idea that only Marines don't keep fighting using their chapter's doctrines when they crew a vehicle despite every other army getting to fight the way they're supposed to.

It seems like GW has no consistent philosophy on traits. Sometimes a subfaction trait applies to vehicles, sometimes vehicles get a different ability from other unit types, and sometimes vehicles get nothing.

Alaitoc has one powerful rule that every unit benefits from, despite it making no sense on things lile hovertanks. Most Guard factions have different infantry and vehicle traits. Legion/Chapter traits don't affect vehicles, dreads aside, at all. I cant see any consistent form of reasoning here.

Matora wrote:
They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit
rolls.

They fire one shot at range and two up close. ???

Yes, that's how Rapid Fire (1) works.

Well, Lord Disco got a buff if you play Alpha Legion, which is funny because they are probably the least likely to use Daemon Engines...

Reemule wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?

Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.

Actually my Crusaders have 2 Heavy Stubbers, Heavy Flamer, Ironstorm Missile Pod,and then RFBC, and Avenger Gatling. All for 210 point less. So all told it averages out to 35 shots. The Castellan averages to 23.5. Now the castellan shots are better.. but 210 points better? And weight of fire is something going for it. And the Heavy Flamer auto hitting is useful for a model that can almost always walk from combat.

Crusaders are good. They have always been good. Castellan was just OP. I've been saying this all eddition.

 Stux wrote:

Matora wrote:
They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit
rolls.

They fire one shot at range and two up close. ???

Yes, that's how Rapid Fire (1) works.

"it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range"

There's no way to get two shots outside half range.

Sunny Side Up wrote:


Just the big overall FAQ
https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/warhammer_40000_update_April_2019_en.pdf

Yea this is not in the FAQ page - only from FB.

It is well worth a read as GW gives considerable verbage to the issues.

 Stux wrote:

Matora wrote:
They messed up...

Q: With regards the Cadre Fireblade’s Volley Fire ability, what exactly is meant by ‘may fire an extra shot’?
A: It means the player can make one more hit roll for each model. Note that for a model with a pulse rifle (a Rapid Fire weapon) this means that it would make two hit rolls unless the target is within half range, in which case it would make three hit
rolls.

They fire one shot at range and two up close. ???

Yes, that's how Rapid Fire (1) works.

The issue is Volley Fire says "may fire an extra shot with pulse pistols, pulse carbines and pulse rifles when shooting at a target within half the weapon’s range." So you only get 1 shot at full range, not 2. The FAQ is suggesting you get 2 shots at full range.

A huge amount of very positive changes for playability purposes. The effect on balance will be interesting to see, but the reduced Ion shield save, higher Castellant cost and eldar psychic power changes all seem eminently sensible.

Tentatively optimistic about these.

Oh I just noticed something fun.


If the models in a unit are so far apart that their full move wont bring them into coherency, they can now no longer move at all.


That's right, they cant pile in, consolidate, or make any kind of movement whatsoever, if they are too strung out.



They also FINALLY clarified what you can do "as if you were" in a certain phase.

What I like about the General Update is that they are actually expressing their intent when describing why something was done or misunderstood.

Love this FAQ.

Can you still rapid fire with DW at half range and use SIA ammo?

Quasistellar wrote:
Sad that they increased the Castellan cost so much. Maybe 50 points, but 100? Ehhhh, you already didn't see them in mono Knights, and now you literally never will. Heck, if anything, they could have just increased the Imperium Castellan by 50 and dropped the cost of the Chaos version by 50 to represent the difference in strength that Relics and Traits provide to the Imperium models.

GW considers stratagems, relics, traits etc 0 points so...

Wayniac wrote:
Well, Lord Disco got a buff if you play Alpha Legion, which is funny because they are probably the least likely to use Daemon Engines...

IMO red corsairs is the best. Advance and charge is huge - ESP when you have an 18" autohit flamer

 Eihnlazer wrote:

They also FINALLY clarified what you can do "as if you were" in a certain phase.

Where are you seeing this?