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Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

Very happy with most of the changes.

I'm not sold on the Bolter Discipline change as it is a straight nerf in all ways. It should have applied that same way, but been +1 shot instead of double, but still double at half range.
Would have solves the Vehicle issue and the DW SIA issue without strictly removing it form those entirely.

But, oh well. DW are still good and Bolter Discipline is still a buff to regular Marines. Just sad that it encourages gunline play.

Will be interested to see how this will effect "top-lists" since Ynnari have been nerfed and the Castallan is +100pts more and can't have 3++ anymore.
Loyal 32 are still a thing.

-

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Land Raider Pilot on Cruise Control






No more using cherubs to double dip on hell fire shells or flakk missiles

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 16:51:37


 
   
Made in us
Locked in the Tower of Amareo




 fraser1191 wrote:
No more using cherubs to double dip on hell fire shells or flakk missiles


That never made any sense to me.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 Daedalus81 wrote:
 skchsan wrote:
The FAQ is surprisingly good.


Really really good. Fly is back in a meaningful way. Castellans, Ynnari, and Doom eat it.

IS are still 4 points so I guess we still have SOMETHING to argue about.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ice_can wrote:

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.


They're still quite good, but to each their own.


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Galef wrote:
Very happy with most of the changes.

I'm not sold on the Bolter Discipline change as it is a straight nerf in all ways. It should have applied that same way, but been +1 shot instead of double, but still double at half range.
Would have solves the Vehicle issue and the DW SIA issue without strictly removing it form those entirely.

But, oh well. DW are still good and Bolter Discipline is still a buff to regular Marines. Just sad that it encourages gunline play.

Will be interested to see how this will effect "top-lists" since Ynnari have been nerfed and the Castallan is +100pts more and can't have 3++ anymore.
Loyal 32 are still a thing.

-

Guardbrigadr stays and swaps 1 Castellen for 2 crusaders.
It's still blatantly obvious that someone's being dishonest about 4ppm guardsmen.
   
Made in us
Commoragh-bound Peer





What I find weird is that the Castellan took a sizable hit, but so did its biggest counter. Doom, Jinx, and double shooting Eldar units were the natural counter to that kind of list. With all of those taking a hit, I think that Knights actually got a competitive boost, just that we might be seeing 2-3 now instead of the Super-Buffed 1.

Douglas Adams wrote:If you try and take a cat apart to see how it works, the first thing you have on your hands is a non-working cat.

 
   
Made in gb
Wrathful Warlord Titan Commander






London

Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
   
Made in us
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer




Tampa, FL

 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
Eh, it was still undercosted by about 75-80ish points. So 100 is maybe a bit on the too much spectrum.

I think I'm most disappointed there's still nothing to address soup/CP batteries and encourage mono faction. Which means it won't ever change, which sucks for people like me who come from a time when you were an "Iron Warriors player" and not a "Chaos Space Marine player".

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 17:02:29


- Wayne
Formerly WayneTheGame 
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




Wayniac wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
Eh, it was still undercosted by about 75-80ish points. So 100 is maybe a bit on the too much spectrum.


I think the castellan might be a victim of "give the people what they want, and the people want BLOOD" syndrome.

Like the change or not, GW clearly knew that knocking the castellan out of the limelight would be good PR.
   
Made in gb
Painting Within the Lines




Sheep Loveland

 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?


Problem is castellan never had to move unless there was massive LoS blocking cover or it had to step out of combat

Custodes 1,900pts 100% painted
Minatours 1,200pts 0% painted 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Savage Khorne Berserker Biker





Ohio

Overall very happy with the changes myself. This oughta change the competitive scene a bit.
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Xenomancer do you wish to buy mine? It is for sale!
   
Made in es
Dark Angels Librarian with Book of Secrets




Vigo. Spain.

I think is a very good FAQ and in general good changes.

People will stop using the Castellan thats right (Or not because as others have said their bigger counters don't work anymore) because it has been balanced.

Just compare the old castellan with like, ALL other superheavies in the game and try to arguee that the Castellan was fine. I don't have that much symphaty for those that chase the meta dragon and try to tell others that the clearly busted units that they sell for pennies the moment they take a nerf are "Right, you just need to learn how to play".

And I'm not a very good player of 40k I recognise that. But that hypocrisy is infuriating.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 17:12:41


 Crimson Devil wrote:

Dakka does have White Knights and is also rather infamous for it's Black Knights. A new edition brings out the passionate and not all of them are good at expressing themselves in written form. There have been plenty of hysterical responses from both sides so far. So we descend into pointless bickering with neither side listening to each other. So posting here becomes more masturbation than conversation.

ERJAK wrote:
Forcing a 40k player to keep playing 7th is basically a hate crime.

 
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






the_scotsman wrote:
Wayniac wrote:
 Valkyrie wrote:
Part of me is a bit annoyed about the Castellan, as what made it OP was the 3++ Invulnerable and Raven Strategem. Perhaps it would be better to change these rather than add +100pts to the cost?
Eh, it was still undercosted by about 75-80ish points. So 100 is maybe a bit on the too much spectrum.


I think the castellan might be a victim of "give the people what they want, and the people want BLOOD" syndrome.

Like the change or not, GW clearly knew that knocking the castellan out of the limelight would be good PR.

Think what you may - its obvious to most people you get too much for what you pay for with a Castellan. Now you have a choice between fully decked crusader and Castellan. I think most will still go Castellan. Or maybe Shadowsword.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Reemule wrote:
Xenomancer do you wish to buy mine? It is for sale!

Nah I don't need 2. I have a Vaillant also. I wonder if it has become playable now.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 17:12:54


If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dive-Bombin' Fighta-Bomba Pilot






I for one look forward to picking up some cheap, poorly painted in 3 colors, and a bti of sand pva gluesd on for "basing" Castellens on ebay. Then converting some to ork gargants and one for the display case after painting to match my other knights.

10000 points 7000
6000
5000
5000
2000
 
   
Made in us
Shrieking Traitor Sentinel Pilot





The Wastes of Krieg

The Marauder Brutes get "a close-combat weapon". What does that mean? Do they mean melee weapon?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also, GW screwed over R&H again. They changed one thing when there was so much they needed to do.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/04/29 17:18:48


 
   
Made in gb
Battlefortress Driver with Krusha Wheel






I love the idea of people stopping bringing certain models because they became more balanced... I still use the worse models that are best painted. XD
   
Made in gb
Regular Dakkanaut



London

 Galef wrote:
Just sad that it encourages gunline play.
-


Yes I would have loved a change that made them assault 2 base.

(Actually I would love a change that made them assault two strength 4, -1 armour with an alt fire mode of rapid fire 2, str 3, 0 armour to let them both more rapidly around the board as befits an elite rapid strike army and the ability to put our buckets of dice at point blank range when getting swarmed, but I can but dream.)
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




Designing my army to now be able to pop a 4++ knight (2 of them) vs one 3++.

Not going to see the ubiquitous farseer on a jetbike in all the DE armies. No more skyweavers for that mater (see ya clowns).

Don't think this is going to shake up the meta that much. Yanarri was already falling out and being replaced by flyers spam. The no-move blocking rule helps but those flyer spam armies will still table you (they just won't block you in your corner while doing it). Castillians will be replaced by two of the smaller knights (and maybe a gallant).

No addressing CP issues or soup.
No help for poor grey knights and space wolves (and to a lesser extend non-Gman marines).
Doom and Jinx should require LOS but the change was good.
Raven strat and fight at full health strats didn't get nerfs (the fight a full health strat really bugs me.)
I had no idea I could use the same strategem more than once per round. Why did I think strats were one use...
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?



Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in ca
Been Around the Block




So why did the brotherhood champion get doubled nerfed lol... Was that model tearing up the meta... I have literally never seen it used.

Another interesting change is you can never get pre game command points refunded anymore.
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.

Why take a Castellen at that points cost with a 4++, when 2 crusaders can be had both with 4++ for less CP burning.
I dont play with a Castellen so I'm happy for now, I just wish they would fix CP instead of constantly upping CP for strategums based on cheap CP for outside codex.
   
Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Oooh...no more DP, LRBT or HWT spamming across codexes.

[im]https://imgur.com/kEUzFF0.png[im]

http://insighthammer.com/ 
   
Made in us
Awesome Autarch





Dallas area, TX

bananathug wrote:
Why did I think strats were one use...
because they are in Matched play.

-

   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






 Daedalus81 wrote:
Reemule wrote:


Not when a Porphy is just 130 points more, or a Crusader is 200 points less. Think of it this way... is it as good on it own as a a Crusader and the Loyal 32? and a few points for something else?



Duuuuuude....

A crusader is 200 cheaper, because it comes nowhere near the Castellan.

2D6 S8 AP2 DD3, 12 S6 AP2 D2, and maybe a melta gun

versus...

+4 wounds, 2D6 S8 AP3 D2, D6 Volcano, FOUR meltaguns, 4D3 S7 AP1 DD3, and two missiles that ignore just about everything in the game.

The Plasma is better than the RFBC. The siegebreakers are better than the AGC. We're at parity. THEN you add the Volcano, meltaguns, missiles, and wounds. THEN you add access to Cawl's which is just straight better than any of the other relic guns.

Ehhh - I agree that things are more in balance now but lots of the relic guns are really good IMO.

Storm spear relic is reroll all hits ap-3 +12 range.
Endless furry is god teir.
Tyranis melta gets 2d6 damage at all ranges and +12 range.
Relic fist is flat 8 damage and doesn't suffer hit penalty.

Those are all really good.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran




 lolman1c wrote:
I love the idea of people stopping bringing certain models because they became more balanced... I still use the worse models that are best painted. XD


THe Castellan was getting pretty rare in Pure Knights. People found when you had 9CP you couldn't afford to rotate it. I was actually excited for a while, cause with the 4++ RIS nerf, I was thinking I could make it a Warlord, give it the Trait, and afford to field it.

Point wise, it just isn't going to measure up to the Porphy or Crusader now. And that might get even worse with the release of the Arastus or whatever its called, when that happens. The castellan was great cause with Raven Strat it was putting out a huge amount of shots. The porphy has many of the same options, but your also going to full re-rolls as it has a 2+ bs.

Reality with the 4++ change, I'm not sure you would have seen the Castellan anyway. You needed a castellan for their castellan. Now even if they bring a 4++knight, even a Porphy... do you still need a Castellan? Your going to want a strong point.. but did you need that strong point? I think you might see Crusaders much more now. Gives your enemy the same focal point they were going to get, but you save 100+ points.
   
Made in us
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar






Ice_can wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
the_scotsman wrote:
The ability to insta-pop someone with either death grip or GSC mental onslaught has been removed - both now automatically fail if the defending model rolls a natural 6.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Hand Flamers appear to have been updated to the D6 profile from the GSC codex for everybody.

Metal onslaught was just broken RAW, deathgrip taking 2 nerfs in the same FAQ was probably unnecessary.
Castellen is very dead now, expect to see them going for pennies on Ebay shortly.

Not really. If anything they are even better now - their biggest threats got nerfed. Doom/Jinx only effect CWE. Ynnari are dumpstered. I promise you every single castellan player would take 100 points out of their list to never have to play Ynnari and still win. 4++ Castellan is still really hard to kill. It's just not impossible. Plus Crusaders are much more appealing now. This is a good change.

Why take a Castellen at that points cost with a 4++, when 2 crusaders can be had both with 4++ for less CP burning.
I dont play with a Castellen so I'm happy for now, I just wish they would fix CP instead of constantly upping CP for strategums based on cheap CP for outside codex.

Same CP to give 2 knights 4++ because the warlord trait +1 invo will always be the Castellan.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
[DCM]
Ultramarine Terminator with Assault Cannon






Overall this FAQ is really well done, imo. Well presented, too. It feels like GW really took their time with this one, and it shows.

bananathug wrote:
Designing my army to now be able to pop a 4++ knight (2 of them) vs one 3++.


Right! That makes things much easier to manage when I get out the calculator.

And They Shall Not Fit Through Doors!!!

Tyranid Army Progress -- With Classic Warriors!:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/743240.page#9671598 
   
Made in pl
Longtime Dakkanaut




Flamephoenix182 wrote:
So why did the brotherhood champion get doubled nerfed lol... Was that model tearing up the meta... I have literally never seen it used.

Another interesting change is you can never get pre game command points refunded anymore.

Well heed got nerfed too. As we know GK were too destructive on the meta. But am not angry, I expected a nerf to something, just to keep the tradition up
   
 
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