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 Shadenuat wrote:

Skullhammer wrote:
If your in combat and you have a transport within three of your guys you could in the movement phase get in the vehical and escape cqc witthout penalty and then just drive off, this is no longer an option.

I mean, you can fall back and embark, no?

Assuming you could fall out of combat yes. This prevents when you are trapped in it.

Bharring wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:
Don’t need jinx for a castellan that can’t get better than 4+ anyway. Guided skyweavers will still wreck it almost just as much as they could in the doom/jinx days. That’s good news. Flier spam was dumb glad it’s gone. Other than that everything didn’t really change. Love seeing comments of (eldar weren’t a problem anyway) but people for the past week have been complaining of eldar

Doom gave Skyweavers roughly *double* damage - more than Doom gave to any of the non-Haywire weapons. Guide would, theoretically, bump Skyweaver damage by 33%. That's nowhere close.

That said, Skyweavers haven't been a legal target for Guide, so unless the Ynnari change changed that, you still can't Guide them.

Ah I see. Rather I feel the nerf to castellan and the nerf to doom and jinx balance out. Skyweaver haywire still has its place. And I said guide, but yes I’m ynnari there is a spell like guide for ynnari units. I forget I think ancestors grace? But yeah it’s the same.

tneva82 wrote:
Assuming you could fall out of combat yes. This prevents when you are trapped in it.

Thanks, that's what I assumed, but FAQ wording did not explain that well enough.

 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?

Thought it's other way around - "as if" is just that, "as if", and doesn't count like a real shooting phase?

With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

Reemule wrote:
...with that 4 guys that think Centurions are worth it.

Not even the most ardent Centurion supporter is trying to claim that they're worth their points, we just happen to like our Hulkbuster model.

They're in an awkward spot because they have to compete with 60-point Dreadnaughts; to be worth 40 they need to be significantly tougher but that's a fine line to walk, and GW can only reduce the points for the basic guy so far. The closest comparison is probably a 27 point attack bike (T5, W4, 3+) and how many points are move and fire without penalty and ignore cover modifier worth compared to a 12" move on a shooting model? Amd even if Centurions were 30 points they'd still have a problem because their cheapest weapon load is also 30 points.

 Shadenuat wrote:

Fixed Embarking to escape melee combat

Can someone explain this to me? I didn't get what is this about even though I did read the actual text of a change.

Yes, if you trapped an infantry model with your assault unit to avoid getting shot your opponent could have moved up a transport within 3" and the trapped infantry model vanished off the table by Embarking. Your unit then got shot to pieces. Clarified now so that it cannot happen, if the infantry cannot move then they cannot Embark.

 Apple Peel wrote:
Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?

Am I missing something, or can't you also disembark them normally?

Like, fly the valks/transports up turn 1, and disembark with the guys turn 2?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because evidently guilliguns was the best way to run MEQs before, and I'd assume it is still now?

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

They aren't hugely affected. Mostly their bikes got a lot worse. They are still pretty good though. Vets Deepstrike into range to fire 4 shots most the time anyways. Autobolters are still a great option for DW intercessors. Castellan going up in price and ynnari being squashed is an overall net gain IMO.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?

Am I missing something, or can't you also disembark them normally?

Like, fly the valks/transports up turn 1, and disembark with the guys turn 2?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because evidently guilliguns was the best way to run MEQs before, and I'd assume it is still now?

Gman + Levi dread is so good its hard to compete with that with a marine list.

the_scotsman wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
Valkyrie nerf makes it so the only way to get hot-shot lasguns into rapid fire and doctrine triggering range is to walk them up. Ugh. Did they change that one Warlord trait for Harlequins to be consistent, or do they still get to move after disembarking from a moved vehicle?

Am I missing something, or can't you also disembark them normally?

Like, fly the valks/transports up turn 1, and disembark with the guys
I mean you could, yeah, but does that feel “stormtroopery” to you?
It really kills alpha strike.

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

Ynnari yes, we have to wait and see about aeldari soup in general. Still room for a lot of potential. I am VERY glad flier spam
Is gone though. Freaking hated that

Well, that's a solid uppercut with the nerfbat for the Castellan. I think it's in a much more balanced place now. Also, yay for flying over stuff in the charge phase again!

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

I think it is interesting that there are no new beta rules. I tend to think whatever 'fix' will come to the balance for soup it will first be a beta rule.

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

Agreed. Marines are still in a bad spot, even with Bolter discipline

Hit the top end didn't really do anything for the low end. Still sad to see marine vehicles nerfed (lol why?) and not be buffed at all, but hey progress is progress.

drakerocket wrote:
I think it is interesting that there are no new beta rules. I tend to think whatever 'fix' will come to the balance for soup it will first be a beta rule.

That sounds like a safe bet actually. I'd bet GW got a lot of complaints about the current Ally rules in the community survey.

Maybe the fix for IoM soup, but Eldar Soup was hit hard in a number of ways with the FAQ.

 Zontarz wrote:
If I’m reading this right LRBTs can now fire twice in overwatch, and if they are Cadian they get to re-rolls ones as well since it’s “count-as” the shooting phase?


Holy emperor...

Does that means dark reapers hit on 3 on overtwatch, since its like in the shooting phase ?
3 mounts waiting and than we need errata on the big faq.

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

IG soup is weaker by 100 points plus if they still take a Castellan. And weaker still with fly skipping their screens again. And marines are safer with disintegrators missing out on Doom and Ynnari loasing shoot twice.


There are far more factors at play here.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
I'm very disappointed with the fact that they decided that Space Marine tanks don't get bolter drill.

Like, do space marines not use tanks? Why do they even make SM tank models if tanks aren't an important part of the Astartes way of war?

It's because SM tanks don't fire their bolters any differently to bolters on other tanks. However, their flesh and blood forces (plus their Dreadnoughts, who are more like MCs than Vehicles IMO) do use their bolters differently.

Just because they don't get Bolter Discipline doesn't mean they're any less Astartes.

Well, they already don't get Chapter Tactics because apparently Space Marine chapters don't use armored vehicles in their doctrines.

Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. The Crusader didn't hurt anyone by having bolter drill. But they're going out of their way to delete vehicles from the Space Marine armory by perpetually excluding Space Marine vehicles from getting anything nice.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

IG soup is weaker by 100 points plus if they still take a Castellan. And weaker still with fly skipping their screens again. And marines are safer with disintegrators missing out on Doom and Ynnari loasing shoot twice.


There are far more factors at play here.

Yeah it's too complex to call right now, there's a lot of moving pieces.

Late last year it was looking like Tyranids might make waves in tournaments, but it wasn't quite cutting it. This FAQ might give them a look in now, possibly with some GSC support.

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

IG still never felt nearly as difficult to face as the Ynnari or the Castellan+friends. And a lot of the time a major ingredient for the Guard soup was the Castellan anyways. If I can aim the amount of effort it took to knock out that 3++ Castellan at LR Command tanks instead, the tanks vaporize. I feel like the FAQ will definitely open up my options a bit more a marine player.

Bharring wrote:
Maybe the fix for IoM soup, but Eldar Soup was hit hard in a number of ways with the FAQ.

Correction, the standard aeldari soup. So many units and now hopefully people will steer away from the typical lists. We might see some new fun mixes. Coven and etc. I feel skyweavers have a decent place in new ynnari where as most don’t. Ancestors grave and that melee centric doom style power will work well with them. Obviously with shining spears too. Just things to think about

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

[...]Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game. [...]

Harlequins say hi.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 ServiceGames wrote:
With all the changes to Deathwatch, have MEQs completely fallen off the competitive charts?

SG

No, because Ynnari, Lootas, and Castellans have fallen off the charts. That potentially makes room for them.

To be fair non of those where the real reasons marines don't work, they simply cannot compete with IG codex for souping potential and competitive mono isn't likely to suddenly become the new meta.

IG soup is weaker by 100 points plus if they still take a Castellan. And weaker still with fly skipping their screens again. And marines are safer with disintegrators missing out on Doom and Ynnari loasing shoot twice.


There are far more factors at play here.

Dissy Cannons don't need DOOM against Marine's never have.
Again marines are imperial they arn't exactlly fighting with guard for that brigade/battalion CP powerhouse spot and outaide of BA smash command aren't realy beating out custodes for that screen skipping CC punch.
They bring 0 to imperial soup lists and foot marines arn't exactlly rocking the meta and arn't about to.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Space Marines probably have the weakest motor pool in the game.

Except for Tyranids. . . nyuk nyuk.

Ice_can wrote:

They also changed is so it's all in on a execution force or 1 assasin only.

So no more vanguard assassin detachments of 3 assassins. It's either one of each, an aux detachment or the strat??

It doesn't feel like they come out and say that but after having read that section it seems like that is what they are trying to say.

This sucks as I like my vanguard detachment of assassins and it doesn't seem game breaking in any way...

But now that Dissys can't pull decent AT duty with Doom, they aren't as automatic a choice over Brightlances.

Not that I expect that to change, but it's not nothing.

Ice_can wrote:

Dissy Cannons don't need DOOM against Marine's never have.

Of course not, but it's existence was a wet blanket to running larger units of more elite marines as well as more mono DE lists needing lances now.

Again marines are imperial they arn't exactlly fighting with guard for that brigade/battalion CP powerhouse spot

They don't need to be a CP powerhouse.

and outaide of BA smash command aren't realy beating out custodes for that screen skipping CC punch.

I think you'll find some quite interesting CSM builds coming into focus. When Primaris get their next wave the loyalists will get interesting.