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 techsoldaten wrote:
In the new Codex, the biggest thing I'll be looking for is synergy with Chaos forces.

Most of the Renegade Knight models I've seen in people's armies are crafted to look like Chaos Legions. It would be a shame if players cannot build on that somehow, or if we were locked into a set of Traitor Houses.

I realize it's unrealistic to expect all of the following, but I'd be disappointed to find none of them present.

- Legion Traits
- Mark of Chaos
- Daemon Keyword
- Psychic Powers
- Freeblade-style qualities and burdens

In addition, Renegades should have a distinct flavor. Given the low model count, I'd hate the tactics to be a carbon copy of what the Imperials have. I'd love to see some combination of the following:

- A FNP ability
- An "always strike first" ability
- A Warptime ability
- A Deep Strike Stratagem

Many of those would have to come with some seriously steep points increases as the interactions of the many buffs available via lord discordant, apostles etc are not small and applied to a knight would be hell to balance.

Ice_can wrote:

Many of those would have to come with some seriously steep points increases as the interactions of the many buffs available via lord discordant, apostles etc are not small and applied to a knight would be hell to balance.

I have to agree. The shenanigans possible via the Daemon keyword alone (without any caveats) would get very silly very quickly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 techsoldaten wrote:


Most of the Renegade Knight models I've seen in people's armies are crafted to look like Chaos Legions. It would be a shame if players cannot build on that somehow, or if we were locked into a set of Traitor Houses.

Traitor Houses are precisely what exist in the fluff though. If you think they won't be present to some degree, i think you're going to be disappointed.

There's nothing stopping anyone painting a 'Black Legion' Knight and choosing an appropriate Traitor Household trait from what's available though (assuming there are any). Seems a pretty sensible approach...

StrayIight wrote:

Traitor Houses are precisely what exist in the fluff though. If you think they won't be present to some degree, i think you're going to be disappointed.

Yeah. Why would there be 'Legion' Knights? Legions are a Marine thing and the Knights are not Marines...

All I need now (as in a year ago) is a house trait equivalent. Just something to fill the empty slot. A new model and probably 6 or 12 things to put in each slot is very nice but even as an imperium hater I don't think renegade knights should eclipse loyalists.

Synergizing with legion or god would be cool if it's kept light, but as has been said there is a lot of networking with those keywords.

More than anything I'd like a way to gain charge distance and defense vs shooting.

marks of chaos seem likely, legion traits? yeah no. knights are NOT part of the llegion astartes, they're their own thing

I'm hoping we'll get a level of parity, or a less overtly powerful toolbox than our Imperial cousins have in all honesty. As long as whatever is in the Codex gives us a viable set of tools that allows us to win a game when we have played a little smarter than the other guy, that'd be great. I'd like to think that few of us really want to auto win because our rules are better.

What does worry me, is the potential interaction with Chaos as a whole.

IMO, the Imperial Knight Codex is actually reasonably well balanced. It does contain some powerful stuff, but for the most part, those powerful components are expensive (in terms of both points and CP), and Knight Armies by nature are CP limited - preventing overuse of the very impactful strats...

...and that reasonable internal balance gets thrown straight out of the window when fed huge amounts of CP by cheap formations like the loyal 32.

I hope, this has been thought through to some degree given the (as an example) CP Chaos can access via say the Red Corsairs rules now...

StrayIight wrote:
I'm hoping we'll get a level of parity, or a less overtly powerful toolbox than our Imperial cousins have in all honesty. As long as whatever is in the Codex gives us a viable set of tools that allows us to win a game when we have played a little smarter than the other guy, that'd be great. I'd like to think that few of us really want to auto win because our rules are better.

What does worry me, is the potential interaction with Chaos as a whole.

IMO, the Imperial Knight Codex is actually reasonably well balanced. It does contain some powerful stuff, but for the most part, those powerful components are expensive (in terms of both points and CP), and Knight Armies by nature are CP limited - preventing overuse of the very impactful strats...

...and that reasonable internal balance gets thrown straight out of the window when fed huge amounts of CP by cheap formations like the loyal 32.

I hope, this has been thought through to some degree given the (as an example) CP Chaos can access via say the Red Corsairs rules now...

cheapest RC detachment for CP generation value would 38,125 pts / CP.
Cheapest R&H detachment purely for CP would make you pay 21.25 pts / CP for 15 more bodies.

It would get really messy if the stratagems are about as well balanced as in the Codex, ranging from all over the place to Cacophony and VotWL which basically define the list.
If the later is avalable or warlord traits as problematic as certain IK ones or CSM ones (Spitefull) then they certainly will be a balance issue.
IF they are however adding spike tax probably less so.

StrayIight wrote:
I'm hoping we'll get a level of parity, or a less overtly powerful toolbox than our Imperial cousins have in all honesty. As long as whatever is in the Codex gives us a viable set of tools that allows us to win a game when we have played a little smarter than the other guy, that'd be great. I'd like to think that few of us really want to auto win because our rules are better.

This 100%.

StrayIight wrote:
I'm hoping we'll get a level of parity, or a less overtly powerful toolbox than our Imperial cousins have in all honesty. As long as whatever is in the Codex gives us a viable set of tools that allows us to win a game when we have played a little smarter than the other guy, that'd be great. I'd like to think that few of us really want to auto win because our rules are better.

What does worry me, is the potential interaction with Chaos as a whole.

IMO, the Imperial Knight Codex is actually reasonably well balanced. It does contain some powerful stuff, but for the most part, those powerful components are expensive (in terms of both points and CP), and Knight Armies by nature are CP limited - preventing overuse of the very impactful strats...

...and that reasonable internal balance gets thrown straight out of the window when fed huge amounts of CP by cheap formations like the loyal 32.

I hope, this has been thought through to some degree given the (as an example) CP Chaos can access via say the Red Corsairs rules now...

Your spot on I would say that both codex's should be well balanced, the issue is once you add soup it's always the big guy that's the target for the nerf brigade.

drakerocket wrote:
So long as we get to keep the double avengers everyone has modeled. It'd be nice of our castelans got the same ability. Wouldn't be a problem given the nerfs.

From the community post:

All the Knight patterns from Index: Renegade Knights will still be usable, only now you’ll be able to combine them with Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Relics and, of course, Knight Rampagers and Knight Despoilers.

So not entirely sure, but sounds like it will be possible