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 Haighus wrote:

 Galas wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:
^I dislike the physics implied in "Meteoric Shockwave". If the Pod impact is enough to inflict MW on nearby units, what is it doing to the guys inside?

Nothing because it has some kind of protection/ cushioning system?


But to be honest I believe Drop Pods should inflict MW because they should land ON TOP of enemy infantry. And put it 3" or something like that of distance from the impacted unit.

The Imperium has access to "inertial dampeners" to protect from such impacts. The Caestus assault ram uses them to allow the thing to ram a ship at full speed without pulping the occupants. I can easily see the drop pod (and boarding torpedoes) using the same technology.

I know, you can certainly handwave the impact away with stasis/inertial dampeners etc, but to MW to a nearby squad feels like even more force than normally implied.

If you could squash guys that'd be more realistic, but crappy for the opponent. I'd settle for either being able to land on the first turn or just land closer than 9", and better rules for flamers.

Also the Drop Pod missile system thing is poop.

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I can't wait until GW releases the Primaris Drop Pod, that does all of these things but has 9000 missile launchers and assault cannons and each door has it's own power fist that punches things in combat. Only Primaris Marines can ride in it because lowly squat marines are unworthy.

I laughed for a solid minute at the image this evokes.

Really the thing that makes drop pods so bad is lots of armies (almost all of them) can deep strike multiple units for CP only. Drop pod is around 70 points. Points DO NOT = CP. They are a separate resource of which you get 3 for free that don't even require specific detachments and really getting 10+ CP just by taking the units you were gonna take anyways.

Drop pods should just cost CP. It is the only way they will be useful without changing their rules.

With a rules change they could be useful. Perhaps if they gave some sort of buff. Increased chance of charge - do mortal wounds to units they drop near...something. Currently they do nothing.

 Xenomancers wrote:
Really the thing that makes drop pods so bad is lots of armies (almost all of them) can deep strike multiple units for CP only. Drop pod is around 70 points. Points DO NOT = CP. They are a separate resource of which you get 3 for free that don't even require specific detachments and really getting 10+ CP just by taking the units you were gonna take anyways.

Drop pods should just cost CP. It is the only way they will be useful without changing their rules.

With a rules change they could be useful. Perhaps if they gave some sort of buff. Increased chance of charge - do mortal wounds to units they drop near...something. Currently they do nothing.

Actually you can approximate the cost of CP in points per army, problem is though that these are far cheaper still then the 70 pts /10dudes or dred.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Brutus_Apex wrote:
I can't wait until GW releases the Primaris Drop Pod, that does all of these things but has 9000 missile launchers and assault cannons and each door has it's own power fist that punches things in combat. Only Primaris Marines can ride in it because lowly squat marines are unworthy.

I laughed for a solid minute at the image this evokes.

Until you realise that this might happen and also be bloody expensive model wise.

You can't approximate a point value to CP. In general I'd say most people would spend 10 points for a CP but wouldn't spend 20. So if a drop pod were 15-20 points then it would probably get used. Sure a loyal 32 is 180 points BUT you also get some really capable units that are worth inclusion without generating the CP. CP is free my friend.

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can't approximate a point value to CP. In general I'd say most people would spend 10 points for a CP but wouldn't spend 20. So if a drop pod were 15-20 points then it would probably get used. Sure a loyal 32 is 180 points BUT you also get some really capable units that are worth inclusion without generating the CP. CP is free my friend.

I'm sorry, really? You think a Knights player wouldn't spend 40 points per CP?

I do agree, Guard ain't gonna spend many points on CP, but they 1) have good CP generation already and 2) generally middle-of-the-road strats.

I disagree with the pt/CP analysis. They'd be fine costing points if they had worthwhile cargo.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can't approximate a point value to CP. In general I'd say most people would spend 10 points for a CP but wouldn't spend 20. So if a drop pod were 15-20 points then it would probably get used. Sure a loyal 32 is 180 points BUT you also get some really capable units that are worth inclusion without generating the CP. CP is free my friend.

I'm sorry, really? You think a Knights player wouldn't spend 40 points per CP?

I do agree, Guard ain't gonna spend many points on CP, but they 1) have good CP generation already and 2) generally middle-of-the-road strats.

I don’t think a knight player who was trying to win would spend 40 points a command point when you can make an Adeptus Mechanicus batllion for 160 points getting 5 command points and some dudes.

recently ive been running 3 with my Salamanders. Personally it feels like the only Unit that can use them correctly are Dev squads (i run 3) filled with 4 Multi Meltas. and Vulcan along for the ride. Ill even squeeze in a Vet squad with SBs in one to clear some chaff. They also do a good job of creating a secondary bubble or weird bunker for a unit.

I cant think of another viable use for them. They can be annoying to dislodge if sitting on an objective or 2.

Getting MMs in 2D6 take the highest damage range is very nice. Vulcan makes it worth dropping heavy weapons (Meltas only)
My list also comes with 30 sternguard so i can dump 60 AP-2 shots into something if needed as well.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can't approximate a point value to CP. In general I'd say most people would spend 10 points for a CP but wouldn't spend 20. So if a drop pod were 15-20 points then it would probably get used. Sure a loyal 32 is 180 points BUT you also get some really capable units that are worth inclusion without generating the CP. CP is free my friend.

I'm sorry, really? You think a Knights player wouldn't spend 40 points per CP?

I do agree, Guard ain't gonna spend many points on CP, but they 1) have good CP generation already and 2) generally middle-of-the-road strats.

Nah - not at all. At 40 points you'd be spending 200 points for just the 5 CP a batallion gives you for 180 (which also gives you 5 units). It would be really difficult to figure that actual value of the CP by itself. Realistically - the CP is free. Because every unit in the loyal 32 is undercosted for it's base stats alone.

I just think of how amazing Drop Pods would be with GW's 2019 manufacturing.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
You can't approximate a point value to CP. In general I'd say most people would spend 10 points for a CP but wouldn't spend 20. So if a drop pod were 15-20 points then it would probably get used. Sure a loyal 32 is 180 points BUT you also get some really capable units that are worth inclusion without generating the CP. CP is free my friend.

I'm sorry, really? You think a Knights player wouldn't spend 40 points per CP?

I do agree, Guard ain't gonna spend many points on CP, but they 1) have good CP generation already and 2) generally middle-of-the-road strats.

Nah - not at all. At 40 points you'd be spending 200 points for just the 5 CP a batallion gives you for 180 (which also gives you 5 units). It would be really difficult to figure that actual value of the CP by itself. Realistically - the CP is free. Because every unit in the loyal 32 is undercosted for it's base stats alone.

It is not difficult you just spew NaCl over all non marine armies.
For guard you pay 180 /5 per Cp at it's most efficent. Now add talarn in the combination and you can get an approximation for what a drop pod should cost. but let me guess GuArD Is FrEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

Well it had been beaten to death but it boils down to: for what reason would you take them that something else cannot do better.
Worse yet: what the heck would you put in it?
Is there ANYTHING that can allow it to earn it's points since it is pretty much dead the moment it is chosen?

Agreed, there is little in the SM army that would benefit from the use of a Drop Pod.

I have around 4 of these assembled and in various states of painting.
I have not used them once in 8th edition, no matter how hard I try, unless it is baked into a scenario there is no justification to use them.

It is meant to be a "shock" weapon: a means of rapid deployment that minimizes risk of being shot down prior to payload deployment.
I would think any combination of these rules would be needed to make them useful not including the obvious need to reduce cost:
- Make it that no-matter what happens, on player's turn of arrival the unit cannot be attacked in any way (including overwatch).
- Be able to assault on arrival or shoot but not both ("balance").
- Could add some "attack" on units within a certain range on arrival... like a form of impact damage.

Some thoughts.
It is meant to be "the" last word on reliable delivery of troops ensuring they get there.
Now everyone has it.
How do you get the pod to go one better?

 Talizvar wrote:
Well it had been beaten to death but it boils down to: for what reason would you take them that something else cannot do better.
Worse yet: what the heck would you put in it?
Is there ANYTHING that can allow it to earn it's points since it is pretty much dead the moment it is chosen?

Agreed, there is little in the SM army that would benefit from the use of a Drop Pod.

I have around 4 of these assembled and in various states of painting.
I have not used them once in 8th edition, no matter how hard I try, unless it is baked into a scenario there is no justification to use them.

It is meant to be a "shock" weapon: a means of rapid deployment that minimizes risk of being shot down prior to payload deployment.
I would think any combination of these rules would be needed to make them useful not including the obvious need to reduce cost:
- Make it that no-matter what happens, on player's turn of arrival the unit cannot be attacked in any way (including overwatch).
- Be able to assault on arrival or shoot but not both ("balance").
- Could add some "attack" on units within a certain range on arrival... like a form of impact damage.

Some thoughts.
It is meant to be "the" last word on reliable delivery of troops ensuring they get there.
Now everyone has it.
How do you get the pod to go one better?

This is a good point- they are meant to be shock-and-awe weapons. Maybe they should provide steep hit modifiers to themselves and cargo in the turn they arrive- perhaps a -2 to hit for enemy units shooting at them? Couple this with allowing them to drop in a bit closer than 9" to make flamers, melta, and assaults more useful.

 Haighus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well it had been beaten to death but it boils down to: for what reason would you take them that something else cannot do better.
Worse yet: what the heck would you put in it?
Is there ANYTHING that can allow it to earn it's points since it is pretty much dead the moment it is chosen?

Agreed, there is little in the SM army that would benefit from the use of a Drop Pod.

I have around 4 of these assembled and in various states of painting.
I have not used them once in 8th edition, no matter how hard I try, unless it is baked into a scenario there is no justification to use them.

It is meant to be a "shock" weapon: a means of rapid deployment that minimizes risk of being shot down prior to payload deployment.
I would think any combination of these rules would be needed to make them useful not including the obvious need to reduce cost:
- Make it that no-matter what happens, on player's turn of arrival the unit cannot be attacked in any way (including overwatch).
- Be able to assault on arrival or shoot but not both ("balance").
- Could add some "attack" on units within a certain range on arrival... like a form of impact damage.

Some thoughts.
It is meant to be "the" last word on reliable delivery of troops ensuring they get there.
Now everyone has it.
How do you get the pod to go one better?

This is a good point- they are meant to be shock-and-awe weapons. Maybe they should provide steep hit modifiers to themselves and cargo in the turn they arrive- perhaps a -2 to hit for enemy units shooting at them? Couple this with allowing them to drop in a bit closer than 9" to make flamers, melta, and assaults more useful.

Just having Supersonic on the turn they deep strike and then being able to disembark afterward as normal (not subject to the DS placement rules) might just be enough to make the pods usable.

Disembarking within 9" alone would make them playable. Flamers and Meltaguns might have a purpose again, and a bunch of melee options would be a lot less awful as well.

The Newman wrote:

 Haighus wrote:

Spoiler:

 Talizvar wrote:
Well it had been beaten to death but it boils down to: for what reason would you take them that something else cannot do better.
Worse yet: what the heck would you put in it?
Is there ANYTHING that can allow it to earn it's points since it is pretty much dead the moment it is chosen?

Agreed, there is little in the SM army that would benefit from the use of a Drop Pod.

I have around 4 of these assembled and in various states of painting.
I have not used them once in 8th edition, no matter how hard I try, unless it is baked into a scenario there is no justification to use them.

It is meant to be a "shock" weapon: a means of rapid deployment that minimizes risk of being shot down prior to payload deployment.
I would think any combination of these rules would be needed to make them useful not including the obvious need to reduce cost:
- Make it that no-matter what happens, on player's turn of arrival the unit cannot be attacked in any way (including overwatch).
- Be able to assault on arrival or shoot but not both ("balance").
- Could add some "attack" on units within a certain range on arrival... like a form of impact damage.

Some thoughts.
It is meant to be "the" last word on reliable delivery of troops ensuring they get there.
Now everyone has it.
How do you get the pod to go one better?

This is a good point- they are meant to be shock-and-awe weapons. Maybe they should provide steep hit modifiers to themselves and cargo in the turn they arrive- perhaps a -2 to hit for enemy units shooting at them? Couple this with allowing them to drop in a bit closer than 9" to make flamers, melta, and assaults more useful.

Just having Supersonic on the turn they deep strike and then being able to disembark afterward as normal (not subject to the DS placement rules) might just be enough to make the pods usable.

Sterngaurd start to look real appealing with that -2 to hit ruling. Heck I'd drop 9 with itggy and make them -3 to hit.