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Mind if I ask the reason behind making this list?

chimeara wrote:Hellforged Cerberus' Malignas beam cannon -6ap
Hellforged Falchion Twin Volcano Cannon -5ap

Will add later-at work now.

vipoid wrote:Mind if I ask the reason behind making this list?

Someone said that AP-5 weapons were common. I wanted to know how accurate that was.

I'd argue -4 weapons are incredibly common (perhaps too much so), but not -5.

 Elbows wrote:
I'd argue -4 weapons are incredibly common (perhaps too much so), but not -5.

Maybe.

But yeah, the person was arguing that you should never be able to reroll a save, and I pointed out that a Terminator (or, honestly, even a GUARDSMEN) has a better save base than a Wych's 6+ invuln, even with a reroll.

Their counter was "But AP-5 is super common!" which doesn't look to be true.

I'd also like to point out that most of that list is FW. Also of that stuff almost none of it is used regularly. At least here.

 chimeara wrote:
I'd also like to point out that most of that list is FW. Also of that stuff almost none of it is used regularly. At least here.

Indeed. The only thing in that list that, to my knowledge, sees regular use is the Volcano Lance on the Castellan.

Storm of Fire trait can give the following weapons Ap-5:

- Hellblaster weapons
- Plasma Incinerators
- All Meltas
- Malice

What's Malice?

Lias Issodon's unique Boltgun

36", S5 Ap-4, D3 Damage, Assault 3 No Cover, with SoF he's Ap-5 on a 6 to wound.

Thank you.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
I'd also like to point out that most of that list is FW. Also of that stuff almost none of it is used regularly. At least here.

Indeed. The only thing in that list that, to my knowledge, sees regular use is the Volcano Lance on the Castellan.

I see Broadsides and Fire Prisms all the time, but I'm not sure how much Fire Prisms count when you almost never fire the AP-5 mode on the weapon (d3 S9/-4/d3 shots under Linked Fire are just better than one S12/-5/d6 shot).

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 chimeara wrote:
I'd also like to point out that most of that list is FW. Also of that stuff almost none of it is used regularly. At least here.

Indeed. The only thing in that list that, to my knowledge, sees regular use is the Volcano Lance on the Castellan.

I see Broadsides and Fire Prisms all the time, but I'm not sure how much Fire Prisms count when you almost never fire the AP-5 mode on the weapon (d3 S9/-4/d3 shots under Linked Fire are just better than one S12/-5/d6 shot).

How often are Broadsides rocking the ATS?

Metallophagic Stave (GSC) is Ap-5, couldn't see it on the list.

Which unit has it?

Or is it a Relic?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Which unit has it?

Or is it a Relic?

Relic for a Rusted Claw Magus.

It would be neat if high ap weapons cut invul saves too. Even if it was just a -1 or something. Too. Many. Invuls.

Take a House Taranis Imperial Knight and give him the Knight of Mars trait. On a 6 to wound his Thermal Cannon (and the Fury of Mars relic) will become Ap-5.

Take it on a Valiant and his Thundercoil Harpoon will be Ap-7.

a broadside's HRR is only AP -4. IT also needs ATS to get to -5

 carldooley wrote:
a broadside's HRR is only AP -4. IT also needs ATS to get to -5

Who seriously says Ap-4 isn't enough and adds another -1Ap at a points cost to an AP -4 weapon, it's another one of those technically correct rules lawyering answers that will never see the game table IRL.

Ice_can wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
a broadside's HRR is only AP -4. IT also needs ATS to get to -5

Who seriously says Ap-4 isn't enough and adds another -1Ap at a points cost to an AP -4 weapon, it's another one of those technically correct rules lawyering answers that will never see the game table IRL.

anyone who would rather kill TASM than PASM? or is the 5++ still a thing?
and besides, the OP wasn't interested in -4 but rather -5 AP.

 carldooley wrote:

Ice_can wrote:

 carldooley wrote:
a broadside's HRR is only AP -4. IT also needs ATS to get to -5

Who seriously says Ap-4 isn't enough and adds another -1Ap at a points cost to an AP -4 weapon, it's another one of those technically correct rules lawyering answers that will never see the game table IRL.

anyone who would rather kill TASM than PASM? or is the 5++ still a thing?
and besides, the OP wasn't interested in -4 but rather -5 AP.

All Terminators still have a 5++ or better.
That a significant portion of this list is either on units considered to be sub optimal for competitive play and an number of others requiring conditional effects, I think this thread has proved that in a competitive setting Ap-5 or better isn't actually that common.

Sanguinary Guard have a 2+ and no invuln, and they're okay.

Thought I had the ATS on Broadsides, but guess I forgot-fixed that.

Added the Errant with Knight of Mars, and found our first AP-7 weapon! Huzzah!

Edit: So, looking at what might require the most AP...

Bullgryns have a 4+.
Slabshields give them +2.
Cover gives them +1.
Take Cover! gives them +1.
Psychic Barrier gives them +1.
Meaning you need AP-8 to completely deny them a save. Are there any AP-8 shooting weapons we can find?

 JNAProductions wrote:
Sanguinary Guard have a 2+ and no invuln, and they're okay.

Thought I had the ATS on Broadsides, but guess I forgot-fixed that.

Added the Errant with Knight of Mars, and found our first AP-7 weapon! Huzzah!

Edit: So, looking at what might require the most AP...

Bullgryns have a 4+.
Slabshields give them +2.
Cover gives them +1.
Take Cover! gives them +1.
Psychic Barrier gives them +1.
Meaning you need AP-8 to completely deny them a save. Are there any AP-8 shooting weapons we can find?

You can completely deny them a save by shooting them with a soulburner petard (Chaos Leviathan), which just does mortal wounds on every hit.

By that logic all the psychic powers probably belong on the list, along with Sniper Rifles (mortal wound on a to-wound roll of 6).

The Ironclad Dreadnaught Seismic Hammer is a natural AP 5.

Are those actual improvements to the Save Characteristic, or just modifiers to the roll? Cuz that is gross if the former.

 flandarz wrote:
Are those actual improvements to the Save Characteristic, or just modifiers to the roll? Cuz that is gross if the former.

Its modifiers, and thats gross, because there is no limit to those. A characteristic can never be less than one.

That's true, but a characteristic of 1+ is also immune to AP, so I'd rather have a chance to lower the Save than no chance at all.

Why would a sv characteristic of 1 be immune to AP ?

Because AP modifies the roll, not the characteristic. And GW stated "no roll can be modified below a 1" and "only a 1 on the dice counts as an automatic failure". Therefore, if you can get a Save of 1+, it doesn't matter what AP your opponent uses, you will only fail a Save on a natural 1. There was a big kerfuffle about it when the Ork Codex dropped.

It's only effectively immune to AP because of a silly FAQ. It shouldn't be, but it is.

Ofc GW ignore that FAQ in the Necron FAQ, so who knows anymore.