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I think we are all overlooking something major here.....


HOW MANY MELEE ATTACKS DOES IT GET???

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I think we are all overlooking something major here.....


HOW MANY MELEE ATTACKS DOES IT GET???

It's Primaris, so 1 more attack than the Oldmarine version.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:


The 24 PL on the Apoc Executioner makes zero sense, and if its even remotely an indication of points costing it'll be beyond DoA in 40k.

My concern as well. I mean, it puts the Executioner in the same power level range as Knights. I'm hoping that 315 points with the HLD rumour to be true...

It's not comparable. In 40K a S10 gun means nothing for typically fielded units - it already wounds it wants to hit everything on a 3+. In apoc it wounds vehicles better than a lascannon including knights then you add on double tap. It will be really formidable in that system.

Something that focus fires, rerolls 1s to hit - so 2s rerolling 1s - and then wounds on 4s on a D12 with reroll 1s to wound...is going to hurt a LOT.

I mean a primaris captain is barely different in apoc than a regular captain, but they're the same cost. Comparing the two systems is a fools errand.

It's important to note that the version detailed in the data sheet is equipped with the plasma weapon by default.

Slipspace wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:

Slipspace wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Would a DW Repulsor be an effective tool for dropping a squad of HTH Vets in close range? That would be scary.

Don't Repulsors only carry Primaris? If so there's not really a good HtH unit they can transport.

Oh jeez, I'm getting my Vet loadouts confused. Thank you. You are right. I somehow melded the Vet's rules with the primaris rules.

What about Repulsors dropping off Reivers at 8", and they all unleashing Vengence rounds, and one tossing the "No overwatch grenade". Followed up by other charges?

Assuming you can safely get to 8" away you get to engage in some thoroughly mediocre combat with your overpriced Primaris. You'd be better off dropping Intercessors off at a longer distance, probably in cover, and unloading with them. The real benefit of Repulsor/Executioner transport capacity is the ability to keep expensive but fragile units like Hellblasters off the table for a turn to protect them from shooting. It's not good at delivering units into the enemy's face, because there aren't too many units you'd really want to do that with.

A Gravis Captain with 3 Agressors and a Lieutenant would work with the Lastalon Repulsor, especially if they're SW and the Gravis Captain/ Lord has Wulfen Stone. The Lastalon repulsor wants to be within 24 or 18" anyway to unleash all it's dakka, might as well drop off that Aggressor Squad + Gravis Captain within threat range. That or safely get a Captain + a Rapid Fire Hellblaster squad within 15" of whatever your opponents Precious is. For the executioner though, the only way you should use it's transport capacity is to keep something valuable safe from harm in case you lose T1. You never want one to move more than 5" if at all possible so it can double tap the super plasma/ lascannon.

can it carry executioners?

 Xenomancers wrote:
can it carry executioners?

Wouldn't that be something.

Like a nesting doll.

I never played it but I hear in MWDA you could do stuff like that.

 Stux wrote:
I think a lot of that sentiment stems from previous editions where FW actually was often much more powerful than GW stuff. The feeling is still somewhat strong in some communities though. As you say, these days it's not really any different in power level to standard GW. Sure there's a few units that are well above the curve, but that's true of GW just as much.

The rumour is that FW is moving away from making content for core GW games though, that it's being refocused to concentrate eventually solely on specialist games like HH, Necromunda and Blood Bowl. Even assuming that is true though, we don't know what that means for existing 40k content, and presumably some future HH stuff would still 40k rules.

I'm not sure about that one, I mean technically the Thunderhawk and Warlord Titan etc are for the Core rules, but they're not really for a Core game. I get what you're saying also, but between the special game core rule models, and GW unlikely to start making the super heavy flyers/titans, etc. FW will continue to make them as long as there's a demand. GW is also unlikely to make the purely aesthetic models like the Deimos pattern stuff people buy because they want the look of a 2nd Edition Predator/Rhino etc. They MIGHT make an addon sprue for the command rhino, etc, they could easily take over the Contemptor Dreads and what not given they've already put out a plastic contemptor in the Calth box, and the other small stuff like Minotaur chapter, landraider and rhino doors etc is just a matter of iconography and making a bigger codex, but I just don't see them taking over most of what Forgeworld makes, and Forgeworld wouldn't make it if they could turn a profit on it.


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 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I agree. DS'ing for non-elite armies should cost something.

Even my Custodes have to pay a tax for FGTC. They could overnight really make transports viable again by making DS'ing less easy.

I really hope this has a high (12) transport capacity.

The original Repulsor only carries 10, this is supposedly less.


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endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Thought has just occurred... will standard repulsors get the double shot turret weapon rule? Probably not but I think it should be justified by GW why they do not other than them being not equipped with the optics... It seems a no brained they should also have them

The turret is different between the two, if the original isn't retconned, it'll be something in the turret.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lemondish wrote:
Apocalypse data sheets are up on the website. Two things of note for the Executioner that almost certainly will carry over to 40k.

1. The pintle mounted heavy stubber is optional, unlike for the Repulsor itself.

The Turret/Hull/Fixed Stubber was optional, and looks like it's been repalced by a mandatory Gatling of some kind. Looks like they just moved the optional location.


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 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:


As far as the power of this thing vs the regular Repulsor, I sincerely hope it isn't particularly more expensive. Its average damage is a short improvement and it has no more potential, but has to move at half speed to keep output parity [it also has less offensive flexibility, since all 4 shots hit the same thing]. It does have range, but that's it.

Power level and points costs are frequently relative, but not directly linked. Look at the various incarnations of Marneus Calgar. Higher Points costs Marneus's have been lower power level.

Breton wrote:

The Turret/Hull/Fixed Stubber was optional, and looks like it's been repalced by a mandatory Gatling of some kind. Looks like they just moved the optional location.

Nope - one stubber is optional, the other is part of the starting loadout from the data sheet. The normal Repulsor currently requires a pintle mounted weapon - whether that's a stubber or replaced with an onslaught cannon. Per the data sheet, it is necessary to take one or the other. It's how you can take a hull mounted one in addition to the mandatory pintle mounted weapon.

This new unit does not require a pintle mounted stubber despite the precedent set by the preview pics and the standard Repulsor.

According to the Apoc data sheets, that is.

Lemondish wrote:

Breton wrote:

The Turret/Hull/Fixed Stubber was optional, and looks like it's been repalced by a mandatory Gatling of some kind. Looks like they just moved the optional location.

Nope - one stubber is optional, the other is part of the starting loadout from the data sheet. The normal Repulsor currently requires a pintle mounted weapon - whether that's a stubber or replaced with an onslaught cannon. Per the data sheet, it is necessary to take one or the other. It's how you can take a hull mounted one in addition to the mandatory pintle mounted weapon.

This new unit does not require a pintle mounted stubber despite the precedent set by the preview pics and the standard Repulsor.

According to the Apoc data sheets, that is.

If you look at the original Repulsor is has two Stubbers. One built into the turret, one on a Pintle mount. The one on the pintle mount was "required" - it was upgradable but something was there. The one built into the turret wall was optional and could be replaced by a light bit.
If you look at the Repulsor Executioner, it looks like they got rid of the stubber built into the turret and replaced it with a Gatling Something that will always be there - while the pintle stubber is now optional.

I don't think they've reduced the number of gun mounts (outside of those Stormbolter/Grenade Launcher mini turrets) , just moved them around for which is required. Possibly due to modelling/storage/transport feedback. The pintle mount may be more fragile than an inline below turret top mount that allows for a lower foam height and fewer snapped off point bits sticking in the air - especially for the people who leave off the aerials/antennae

Doesn't it also carry two assblasters? Like, Iron hail heavy stubbers in it's butt?

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Doesn't it also carry two assblasters? Like, Iron hail heavy stubbers in it's butt?

Wild speculation if you will, but they appeared to be twin linked Icarus Ironhail. The Apoc sheet references "Icarus weapons" so the anti-air theme seems to be a lock. I'd bet on 12 points for that thing, and a perusal of the sprue makes me think it won't be optional, but it might! We shall see, though.

If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

 Xenomancers wrote:
can it carry executioners?

It is an Executioner. Do you mean Eliminators?

If so, I guess it probably can but you may be better off setting them up with their infilatration rules.


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Pandabeer wrote:
For the executioner though, the only way you should use it's transport capacity is to keep something valuable safe from harm in case you lose T1. You never want one to move more than 5" if at all possible so it can double tap the super plasma/ lascannon.

I was thinking the same. If you have some backfield Intercessors then they can sit in it quite happily to protect them from T1 shooting if your opponent is going first.

Maybe some Flamestorm Aggressors as defence against someone getting into your DZ but I am not convinced that is a good use of the points.

 Karhedron wrote:

I was thinking the same. If you have some backfield Intercessors then they can sit in it quite happily to protect them from T1 shooting if your opponent is going first.

Maybe some Flamestorm Aggressors as defence against someone getting into your DZ but I am not convinced that is a good use of the points.

Maybe not anywhere near an efficient use, but sounds fun when it works.

Could also carry a 5 man Intercessor squad and an HQ to add 3'' of movement to them before they head out to a nearby objective. Same with a 3 man bolter Aggressor squad. Or just a 5 man Intercessor unit to intercept any backfield threats. I'm not sure if folks will run both Hellblasters and the Executioner, but if so then they'll probably be castling together and can help protect the blasters if you lose T1.

There will also be times where full movement is all but necessary to get the platform into a better position for a next turn salvo, either due to LoS blocking terrain or if you're running the plasma option and run out of valid targets in its range, so carrying some Intercessors could be worthwhile.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
can it carry executioners?

It is an Executioner. Do you mean Eliminators?

If so, I guess it probably can but you may be better off setting them up with their infilatration rules.


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Pandabeer wrote:
For the executioner though, the only way you should use it's transport capacity is to keep something valuable safe from harm in case you lose T1. You never want one to move more than 5" if at all possible so it can double tap the super plasma/ lascannon.

I was thinking the same. If you have some backfield Intercessors then they can sit in it quite happily to protect them from T1 shooting if your opponent is going first.

Maybe some Flamestorm Aggressors as defence against someone getting into your DZ but I am not convinced that is a good use of the points.

I might use it to pack a Wolf Lord and Pack Leader in it for drop reduction, so they can jump out and support it on turn 1. 5 Intercessors for holding points also sound like a good idea if you're going for limited backfield commitment. Unfortunately, it doesn't fit Long Fangs, or I'd moderately strongly consider ditching their metal box [which they hide in like cowards and fools ] for it.

Sterling191 wrote:

Lemondish wrote:
Apocalypse data sheets are up on the website. Two things of note for the Executioner that almost certainly will carry over to 40k.

1. The pintle mounted heavy stubber is optional, unlike for the Repulsor itself.

2. Transport capacity is 6 (woohoo!)

I'm not sure it's worth trying to glean any kind of insight into the power level comparison, but since wild speculation is so much damn fun let's just dig into it a bit.

The power level of the standard Repulsor equipped with las-talon, stubber, twin heavy bolters, "icarus weapons", and "defensive weapon systems" is 13. Icarus is the anti-air shenanigans and defensive weapon systems are likely to be the stormbolters/fragstorm/krakstorm launchers. A current Repulsor in 40k with this loadout (assuming fragstorms) would be about 270 points.

It can upgrade to the heavy onslaught for +3 power rating and replace the stubber with the onslaught for a +1 power rating, and replace the twin heavy bolters for lascannons for free bringing the power rating to 17 but reflecting a unit just 1 point shy of 300.

In comparison, the Executioner starts with a heavy onslaught, icarus weapons, macro plasma, twin heavy bolter, and defensive weapon systems for 24 power rating.

I certainly hope it isn't that big of a gap in 40k.

The 24 PL on the Apoc Executioner makes zero sense, and if its even remotely an indication of points costing it'll be beyond DoA in 40k.

Apoc and normal 40k are completely different rule systems now, it would be stupid as hell to copypaste power levels and point costs from that.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Again - Apoc does not cleanly transfer to 40K. Chaos bikes are PL8 for 3 and they're no where near 160 points for 3 in 40K.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Again - Apoc does not cleanly transfer to 40K. Chaos bikes are PL8 for 3 and they're no where near 160 points for 3 in 40K.

Marneus Calgar is/has been been PL 10 200 points, PL11 200 points, and PL9 235 points. All in one edition of 40K not even Apocalypse. And that 2 power level spread is based off of - as near as I can tell - what he can ride in, as the lowest PL highest point cost is the guy who can ride in the most choices, the middle one has teleport strike and can ride in the second most choices while the highest PL (thus lowest points per PL - is the primaris version who has the fewest choices.

One of the only other differences - Terminator Marneus has a never used Relic Blade, and Artificer Marneus doesn’t halve wounds.

PL and Points are not that closely or strictly related.

For almost all new releases, 1 PL = 20 points has been a pretty good guess - all the ork and chaos stuff, for example.

Note that the PL is calculated by using the average between the cheapest and the most expensive loadout, so a PL of 24 could still resullt in a 400 point tank with all gear you might want.

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Are you joking or trolling?

This the Apoc datsheet. Have you seen the 40k rules?

I didn't think so

 Ishagu wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Are you joking or trolling?

This the Apoc datsheet. Have you seen the 40k rules?

I didn't think so

Still, a repulsor is 13 PL in apoc and the executioner almost twice as much. Since the rules are somewhat bases on WH40k, it wouldn't be surprised if it were significantly more expensive than a repulsor.

 Jidmah wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Are you joking or trolling?

This the Apoc datsheet. Have you seen the 40k rules?

I didn't think so

Still, a repulsor is 13 PL in apoc and the executioner almost twice as much. Since the rules are somewhat bases on WH40k, it wouldn't be surprised if it were significantly more expensive than a repulsor.

or transports simply get a discount in Apoc vs normal. which actually makes sense. a Rhinos of minimal use unless you have eneugh for your entire detachment I would think

 Jidmah wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Are you joking or trolling?

This the Apoc datsheet. Have you seen the 40k rules?

I didn't think so

Still, a repulsor is 13 PL in apoc and the executioner almost twice as much. Since the rules are somewhat bases on WH40k, it wouldn't be surprised if it were significantly more expensive than a repulsor.

Landraiders have vastly different costs also in Apoc. The new Repulsor is costed appropriately for the Apoc game. Simple as that. Random tings cost more in Apoc than they do in regular 40k, whilst other things are cheaper.

We'll have the rules by next week. Assuming anything now is silly.

 Ishagu wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:

 FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
If this is 24PL, I see this being 400pts. Easy. Which stinks. You can't even field 3 at that cost.

Are you joking or trolling?

This the Apoc datsheet. Have you seen the 40k rules?

I didn't think so

Still, a repulsor is 13 PL in apoc and the executioner almost twice as much. Since the rules are somewhat bases on WH40k, it wouldn't be surprised if it were significantly more expensive than a repulsor.

Landraiders have vastly different costs also in Apoc. The new Repulsor is costed appropriately for the Apoc game. Simple as that. Random tings cost more in Apoc than they do in regular 40k, whilst other things are cheaper.

We'll have the rules by next week. Assuming anything now is silly.

I'd say a few things are pretty safe assumptions, like the carrying capacity and which weapons appear to be optional, all derived from the Apoc data sheet. Points cost really isn't one of those things to assume in this case.

 Karhedron wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
can it carry executioners?

It is an Executioner. Do you mean Eliminators?

If so, I guess it probably can but you may be better off setting them up with their infilatration rules.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Pandabeer wrote:
For the executioner though, the only way you should use it's transport capacity is to keep something valuable safe from harm in case you lose T1. You never want one to move more than 5" if at all possible so it can double tap the super plasma/ lascannon.

I was thinking the same. If you have some backfield Intercessors then they can sit in it quite happily to protect them from T1 shooting if your opponent is going first.

Maybe some Flamestorm Aggressors as defence against someone getting into your DZ but I am not convinced that is a good use of the points.

Yeah that is what I met. Every game I play them they get targeted heavily. Typically they are all dead turn 1. They aren't easy to kill ether. They are just that much of a priority to kill it seems. Can't think of any other primaris unit I'd like to protect turn 1 in a backfield transport. The reason I ask is because they are Phobos - I don't know if it can carry phobos.

If you find the same unit in your list is always destroyed on turn 1, then your list or deployments are not balanced and you're making your opponent's choices for him.

You need to present multiple threats, maybe units that are cheaper but in more pressing positions that can soak up attention, or multiple units that draw attention.

Also, you need more redundancy. You can't expect anything to change if you make no changes.

Everything in this post was dumb, ignore

Of course they can carry Phobos. The Repulsor can carry Primaris infantry. Phobos have the keyword Primaris Infantry.

The only stipulation is nothing with jump packs, and Gravis takes up 2 slots. That's it

 Ishagu wrote:
If you find the same unit in your list is always destroyed on turn 1, then your list or deployments are not balanced and you're making your opponent's choices for him.

You need to present multiple threats, maybe units that are cheaper but in more pressing positions that can soak up attention, or multiple units that draw attention.

Also, you need more redundancy. You can't expect anything to change if you make no changes.

Its really hard to draw attention off aggressors. Scouts and infiltrators won't do it. Most people will lose a couple turns of vps to set up the tabling.