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What will it do in YOUR games?

Well, if it gets the Primaris tax, I can see it being about 100-120 points? That would be a great alternative to the Rhino.

If it's the Whirlwind, what will they call it? Tornado? Jesushatestrailerparksinthemidwest? Dust Devil? Vortex? Cyclone? Here's to hoping it's got a IDF Plasma Cannon that does nothing!

Martel732 wrote:
What will it do in YOUR games?

Well of course it will depend on points, any weapons, and special rules.

But basically it'll make Aggressors and Hellblasters more mobile and protect them from some early game shooting.

Yeah, when it explodes it's a 1/6 chance of each one dying. But that's better than the unit getting shot directly. And if they're using their anti tank to crack transports, that's less to shoot at Repulsors

Most things suffer a 1/6 chance of dying when being shot at by Boltguns...

Martel732 wrote:
What will it do in YOUR games?

Who knows maybe the dread can infiltrate, maybe the hover rhino infiltrates and has a 4++ against shooting, maybe Las fusils are assault 5 S10 ap - 5 6D let's at least wait and see what they do before buying a ticket for the hate train...

Transport death doesn't have to hit, wound or give a save though.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:

Martel732 wrote:
What will it do in YOUR games?

Who knows maybe the dread can infiltrate, maybe the hover rhino infiltrates and has a 4++ against shooting, maybe Las fusils are assault 5 S10 ap - 5 6D let's at least wait and see what they do before buying a ticket for the hate train...

It's always time for the primaris hate train.

It’s expensive, but we do have a Primaris transport. Can anyone judge to size? If it has a six man capacity and that’s it, I could see it being useful, otherwise I don’t see need another one.

Martel732 wrote:

It's always time for the primaris hate train.

Yes it seems to be a recurring theme with your posts.

While I agree marines as a whole suck, I'm still excited to see new releases as my love for them runs deep. And there's no point getting all riled up over something that might be competitive for marines and haul them up a couple rungs

Primaris is really good at one thing: refuting the idea that GW always overpowers new kits. Some people STILL claim this.

Martel732 wrote:
Primaris is really good at one thing: refuting the idea that GW always overpowers new kits. Some people STILL claim this.

I'm with you on that. So bizarre that many people still think it's true...

Like, sometimes a new kit is overpowered. But it looks basically random more than anythibg.

It is TOTALLY random. I've basically been losing to the same Eldar kits since early 2000s. They redid the whole BA line. Still crap.

Yet, I CONSTANTLY run into to people that claim this.

I've tried hauling around aggressors in a repulsor. No matter what other units I have on the table, that thing is THE target because they know they get the bonus rolls to kill 30+ point models on top of the expensive ass repulsor. Even FW dreads are not juicy enough to distract off such a target. I've borrowed some and tried.

Same Eldar kits, like the Jetbike Farseer? Maybe Eldred too?

Because no other CWE kit has been top-tier since 2000.

Bharring wrote:
Same Eldar kits, like the Jetbike Farseer? Maybe Eldred too?

Because no other CWE kit has been top-tier since 2000.

I don't know the exact age of them all. Wave serpents, reapers, etc. The usual suspects. War walkers were certainly top tier in 5th when used correctly.

WW were good, done right, in 5th and half of 6th, but not great aside from that.

Serpents suddenly got amazing during the second half of 6th, but was nothing special before that.

Reapers got decent in 7th, but didn't get great until 8. They were overcosted in later 6th, and increadibly overcosted in early 6th - they got destroyed by Marines.

"The ususal suspects" are anything but. Each book, it's been mostly different kits. The price/power does track close to random, but CWE have such a random assortment of units that random distribution will generally put them in a good place.

Point is, GW randomly superpowers old kits and constantly makes new kits with crap rules. Like basically every primaris unit.

Wraithknight. Riptide. Grav weaponry.

Each of those were OP when their kits were released.

I am at the point where Im happy about new primaris stuff. It looks cool and the sight of a whole primaris army makes me smile. Its no where near competitive but its fun collecting them.

Bharring wrote:
Wraithknight. Riptide. Grav weaponry.

Each of those were OP when their kits were released.

And there are many that weren't, and many older kits were made OP with an edition change or something too.

GW is just bad at balance in general.

Bharring wrote:
Wraithknight. Riptide. Grav weaponry.

Each of those were OP when their kits were released.

I didn't say it NEVER happened. It's just far from universal.

Bharring wrote:
Wraithknight. Riptide. Grav weaponry.

Each of those were OP when their kits were released.

in fairness Grav weaponry had a big impact beyond just being OP because it was a hard counter to the meta at the time of it's release.

but yeah, GW has been very conserfitive with Primaris pricing, my guess is they're deliberatly trying to not rock the boat and obselete old marines. If an intercessor squad was say.. 15 points at release no matter what corrections and changes they made the narrative would have been "old marines are obselete now, get ridda em, they want you to switch to Primaris" plenty of people already think that but GW seems to be trying to subtly present a "mixed formations" narrative, at least for now.

Grav was the marine crutch because their other units were just getting skunked.

I'm pretty sure GSC was pretty broken, hence week 1 patch, or am I misremembering how GSC released?

Also, are you telling me the Castellan didn't unbalance the entire game when it first dropped?

How about when DW were getting Beta Bolters with SIA while carrying SSs?

New kits were overpowered, we are just forgetting quickly.

Sometimes they are. But then, primaris. The point is that its totally random.

 p5freak wrote:
Great, one more overpriced primaris only transport, and another useless, overpriced dread, like the redemptor. Both probably wont have an inv.

Redemptor is 155pts with the onslaughts. That is cheap as chips for the firepower, wounds and S/T

Redemptor is one of the few good primaris units. It's not cheap. Cheap would be sub 10 ppw. It's still overcosted probably, but not by much. To be truly fearsome, it would need to clock in around 120. Xenos level costing.

Martel is right at this point. for every new kit that releases somewhat broken, there's one that releases that's not that great. moving away from Primaris Marines...

does anyone rememebr the Taurox dominating the battlefield on release? Cause I sure don't! Custodes when they released had one unit widely agreed as amazing but the terminators and wardens where just "alright" anytime an entire new faction gets released chances are some of it';s units will be amazing and others will be crap, just the way it goes.

BrianDavion wrote:

Bharring wrote:
Wraithknight. Riptide. Grav weaponry.

Each of those were OP when their kits were released.

in fairness Grav weaponry had a big impact beyond just being OP because it was a hard counter to the meta at the time of it's release.

but yeah, GW has been very conserfitive with Primaris pricing, my guess is they're deliberatly trying to not rock the boat and obselete old marines. If an intercessor squad was say.. 15 points at release no matter what corrections and changes they made the narrative would have been "old marines are obselete now, get ridda em, they want you to switch to Primaris" plenty of people already think that but GW seems to be trying to subtly present a "mixed formations" narrative, at least for now.

They're failing miserably if that's what they're aiming at.

The good news is that as much as Primaris are nudging mini-marines out of the boat in Vanilla Marine armies, mini-marines are still hands-down better that Primaris in Death Watch due to Stormbolters interacting so much better with SIA and the Primaris DW squad being less flexible. I'm more sanguine about that than I expected, even if I don't really want to do the conversion and re-painting.

- I'm looking forward to getting a second box of Suppressors once the stand-alone kit comes out, their cannon is just about as on-meta as you can get.
- If the Lasfusile is any sort of good then LasFusile Eliminators push Devs out of the boat just on being a 1+ save in cover. Especially if it winds up being something middle-of-the-road since Marines have a problem with only having specialized guns and nothing like the Battle Cannon that is good against the field.
- A hover-rhino means there's a decent chance that the various Rhino-based tanks that Death Watch can't use are only a printed conversion kit away from usable in a solid Primaris list. There's probably files out there already for the Land Raider.

It's in a place where I can kind of see it coming together.

I've thought about DW, but I hate the concept so much. Marines that are even MOAR marininer. Marines are already absurd. GK, DW, and such are on a different level.

I'd rather they just make primaris good so we can compete and get rid of old marines entirely. It's better than this middle limbo world where every marine unit sucks. Yeah, that's like 90% of what I own, but it's already garbage at this point.

 bullyboy wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, one more overpriced primaris only transport, and another useless, overpriced dread, like the redemptor. Both probably wont have an inv.

Redemptor is 155pts with the onslaughts. That is cheap as chips for the firepower, wounds and S/T

It hits on 3s, when it moves on 4s, and when its damaged its on 5s, or even 6s. No inv. Thats ridiculous.

Pretty excited for Primaris Rhino. It probably wont be able to hold gravis though. It will be able to hold hell blasters though. Maybe intercessors.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 p5freak wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Great, one more overpriced primaris only transport, and another useless, overpriced dread, like the redemptor. Both probably wont have an inv.

Redemptor is 155pts with the onslaughts. That is cheap as chips for the firepower, wounds and S/T

It hits on 3s, when it moves on 4s, and when its damaged its on 5s, or even 6s. No inv. Thats ridiculous.

Yeah and on demand -1 to hit. Lots of times this unit can't even hit. Vehicle degrading profiles really make increased wound not as valuable as in when things get bigger they should start paying less for wounds.