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Voss wrote:
I don't agree at all. Eldar of both stripes had multiple points of entry into the 'ongoing story' (Iyanden vs. Tyranids, eldar vs. resurgent necrons & chaos, what the giant warp nonsense means, how it affects the webway, etc, etc.)

None of that required a 'both sides' army glued together by a couple special characters which aren't even memorable enough to have names.

Any given farseer could have patched Roboute's neck and gotten a fast reaction force together to hit hotspots in the chaos surge, and various characters could have participated in post 8th edition events. GW just didn't bother.

Ynead was one of those cryptic un-detailed 'secrets' hanging around to flesh out the background for decades. They could have developed something interesting off of the hints and riddles, but instead decided to pluck that fruit, take a tiny bite and toss it.

Personally, I like the ynnari fluff. Prior to the ynnari, I still loved my space elves, but there was a strong undercurrent of "why bother?" Oh, you won that last campaign? Guess maybe you bought yourself an extra generation before extinction, probably at the cost of one of your favorite special characters. All the diabla ex machina in 40k was kind of sapping the fun out of being the determined final survivors of a species of wizard ninjas. The ynnari have a reason to fight beyond hollow survival.

That said some of the specifics are a bit odd. I strongly suspect that Yvraine was initially meant to be Malys and that the visarch was maybe pitched as reborn Yriel at some point. Also, the advertising leading up to their release made it sound like we were going to actually see a Rhana Dandra with Ynnead fighting and "killing" Slaanesh. I was all hyped for the Ynnead/Slaanesh fusion dance that was going to result in a bunch of reborn gods. Which is still on the table, but they're moving things forward slower than I expected.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Elbows wrote:
It's because three models do not a faction make. It's a horribly written mis-managed and lazy attempt at introducing a faction.

Ynnari should have access to almost all of the aeldari units (sans things like coven units) under the same roof again. Does it give them access to a lot of units in the same detachment? Sure. Marines have tons of units even without going to the non-codex-compliant books, but no one goes around complaining about how White Scars or Salamanders shouldn't be a faction because they don't have enough chapter-specific characters.

Bonus action shenanigans aside, fielding avengers, harlies, and wyches in a single CAD in 7th just felt really good. I miss being able to bring the pointy eared family together in one place.

 Elbows wrote:
As someone who finds Ynnari dreadfully boring and poorly written...I have no issue with them being smacked around by the nerf bat.

If one player disliking faction would be reason to nerf bat every faction would be nerf batted to oblivion. Bad reason. Thank god you aren't anywhere near games design

Because Cruddace and Kelly don't operate the same way?

 vipoid wrote:

 Elbows wrote:

Pain4Pleasure wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
As someone who finds Ynnari dreadfully boring and poorly written...I have no issue with them being smacked around by the nerf bat.

Then you’re part of the problem with the game. You don’t like a faction? Cool story bro. Others do and they’d like for their faction to have at least decent rules. I’m sure you’d be QQ’ing if you’re favorite faction was hit. Smh.

I think "the problem with the game" is too many factions, including little dinky pointless factions which shouldn't actually be armies - it detracts and dilutes the attention normal armies get. They're just sales gimmicks. I'm free to dislike them as I please.

I think this would carry more weight if Ynnari had actually got releases. Instead, not only did they receive no new models, they didn't even get a codex. All they got was a few pages in White Dwarf.

Given that the model releases in the last two years can largely be summed up as: Marines, Marines, Marines, Marines, bigger Marines, more Marines, Evil Marines, even bigger Marines, more Evil Marines etc., you'll forgive me if I find it hard to believe that it's Ynnari that are diluting the attention paid to other armies.

I kinda feel they should just be a part of the Elder craft world codex, with some of the eldar units(craftworld, dark and such) Some things limited in interesting ways but giving access to other things. Probably with there own points list as well would be best for the extra parts.
If GW thinks they will sell, Make a real codex with full points list rather than what we have now.

tneva82 wrote:

 Elbows wrote:
As someone who finds Ynnari dreadfully boring and poorly written...I have no issue with them being smacked around by the nerf bat.

If one player disliking faction would be reason to nerf bat every faction would be nerf batted to oblivion. Bad reason. Thank god you aren't anywhere near games design

Well from what other people seem to say it does happen. Unless people lie everywhere Grey Knights being bad is the punishment for a good codex in in 3ed or 4th ed, that was beating one of the designers IG army over and over again.

Wyldhunt wrote:
That said some of the specifics are a bit odd. I strongly suspect that Yvraine was initially meant to be Malys

But then GW realised that this would entail actually releasing a model for DE.

Wyldhunt wrote:

Ynnari should have access to almost all of the aeldari units (sans things like coven units) under the same roof again. Does it give them access to a lot of units in the same detachment? Sure. Marines have tons of units even without going to the non-codex-compliant books, but no one goes around complaining about how White Scars or Salamanders shouldn't be a faction because they don't have enough chapter-specific characters.

Out of interest, if there was a Ynnari book containing most of the units from CWE, DE and Harlequins, would you change the auras of models like the Autarch and Archon to match? As in, would the Autarch's aura affect all CWE-Ynnari or all Ynnari period?

Maybe I am just so influenced by AoS these days, but I always viewed Ynnari as Grand Alliance: Aeldari, and I found that just cool.

I played against Ynnari craftworld eldar this weekend, and they had some nasty surprises for me. Shining spears with +1 to hit and charging after advancing seriously caught me off-guard.
He also had an index autarch skyrunner armed to the teeth with the locket relic that adds an attack for every model he kills (not just in combat) and the warlord trait that gives him 5+++ and wound regeneration is very nasty. By finishing off the last models of multiple units and a characters, it became an unstoppable killing machine that could shred anything in combat (+5 attacks, +5" movement). When my daemon prince finally crushed him, he revived the autarch with 3 wounds outside of combat, he regenerated another one, was healed by the word of the phoenix during his turn and charged to just kill an unwounded DG daemon prince in a single round of combat at full health.
He did a bunch of other cute tricks, like a farseer buffing 5++ to wraithlords who became real monsters in close combat with T8/5++ and hitting on 2s. Trying to kill Shining Spears with 5++/6+++, -1 to hit from stratagem with a farseer reviving one every turn takes a lot of firepower. Losing your warlord also hurts twice as much as they simply get to souldburst for the rest of the game when you do. To help with that, they have a smite which gets to pick targets rather than targeting the nearest model. The combination of triggering fight first for the enemy and the Yncarne jumping all over the board also makes removing enemy units without setting yourself up for a counter-charge or even heroic intervention difficult.

In general my impression was that Ynnari got powerful stratagems, relics, warlord traits (which they ca have two of for 1 CP), psychic powers and characters and free counter-attack on any turn. They require some building around them (like ork freebootas), but I seriously doubt that they are a weak army.

 Jidmah wrote:
I played against Ynnari craftworld eldar this weekend, and they had some nasty surprises for me. Shining spears with +1 to hit and charging after advancing seriously caught me off-guard.
He also had an index autarch skyrunner armed to the teeth with the locket relic that adds an attack for every model he kills (not just in combat) and the warlord trait that gives him 5+++ and wound regeneration is very nasty. By finishing off the last models of multiple units and a characters, it became an unstoppable killing machine that could shred anything in combat (+5 attacks, +5" movement). When my daemon prince finally crushed him, he revived the autarch with 3 wounds outside of combat, he regenerated another one, was healed by the word of the phoenix during his turn and charged to just kill an unwounded DG daemon prince in a single round of combat at full health.
He did a bunch of other cute tricks, like a farseer buffing 5++ to wraithlords who became real monsters in close combat with T8/5++ and hitting on 2s. Trying to kill Shining Spears with 5++/6+++, -1 to hit from stratagem with a farseer reviving one every turn takes a lot of firepower. Losing your warlord also hurts twice as much as they simply get to souldburst for the rest of the game when you do. To help with that, they have a smite which gets to pick targets rather than targeting the nearest model. The combination of triggering fight first for the enemy and the Yncarne jumping all over the board also makes removing enemy units without setting yourself up for a counter-charge or even heroic intervention difficult.

In general my impression was that Ynnari got powerful stratagems, relics, warlord traits (which they ca have two of for 1 CP), psychic powers and characters and free counter-attack on any turn. They require some building around them (like ork freebootas), but I seriously doubt that they are a weak army.

I'm noticing a distinct lack of Dark Eldar or Harlequins in that list. You know that Ynnari is supposed to be more than just CWE, right?

That's why he said it was Ynnari Craftworld Eldar in the very first sentence.

The units are same I would have picked btw. Spears, Lords for that 5++ and Vampire-Autarch with locket is too obvious not to use.

 Shadenuat wrote:
That's why he said it was Ynnari Craftworld Eldar in the very first sentence.

But this is my point. One of my biggest objections to Ynnari is that the bonus is completely worthless for Dark Eldar units.

Hence, saying 'it seems okay on CWE' rather misses the point. Ynnari isn't supposed to be exclusive to CWE.

 Jidmah wrote:

He also had an index autarch skyrunner armed to the teeth with the locket relic that adds an attack for every model he kills (not just in combat) and the warlord trait that gives him 5+++ and wound regeneration is very nasty.

You might want to ask your opponent to re-read how that relic works. It's certainly not an attack for every model he kills.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

He also had an index autarch skyrunner armed to the teeth with the locket relic that adds an attack for every model he kills (not just in combat) and the warlord trait that gives him 5+++ and wound regeneration is very nasty.

You might want to ask your opponent to re-read how that relic works. It's certainly not an attack for every model he kills.

Good point. It's +1M and +1A per unit killed, not per model killed.

It's for every unit, but farming ~5 units per battle is possible if you steal the frags from your other units. Every lost enemy 1-2 models, a leftover Tau drone or weak character is a prey for your killstealer.

If you are allowed to use Index, Autarch has 3 ranged weapons to fire per phase and 4 melee attacks which is enough to hunt for the bonus.

I'm aware, but all he needs to do is kill the last pox walker from one unit, the last plague marine from another and then shoot his melta into a character/vehicle and hope for another kill.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

He also had an index autarch skyrunner armed to the teeth with the locket relic that adds an attack for every model he kills (not just in combat) and the warlord trait that gives him 5+++ and wound regeneration is very nasty.

You might want to ask your opponent to re-read how that relic works. It's certainly not an attack for every model he kills.

he did say later that he used him to finish off units so I think he was doing it right, just poorly worded in the sentence you quoted.

 vipoid wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
That's why he said it was Ynnari Craftworld Eldar in the very first sentence.

But this is my point. One of my biggest objections to Ynnari is that the bonus is completely worthless for Dark Eldar units.

Hence, saying 'it seems okay on CWE' rather misses the point. Ynnari isn't supposed to be exclusive to CWE.

It's really really good on Reavers and some people are having luck with wyches. For the most part I agree though.

The Yncarne, while overcosted, is still a lot of fun to use. He worked well with a unit of 10 Axe and Shield Wraithblades in a game last night. I would send him into combat recklessly to swing his death sword around, then activate the Wraithblades who were fighting elsewhere, when they killed their target the Yncarne could teleport to them to be screened and provide 6+++. Really annoyed my opponent.

Drager wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Shadenuat wrote:
That's why he said it was Ynnari Craftworld Eldar in the very first sentence.

But this is my point. One of my biggest objections to Ynnari is that the bonus is completely worthless for Dark Eldar units.

Hence, saying 'it seems okay on CWE' rather misses the point. Ynnari isn't supposed to be exclusive to CWE.

It's really really good on Reavers and some people are having luck with wyches. For the most part I agree though.

I don`t think that is true, just DE and Harlequins have very good traits and relics and CWE don`t. So Ynnari give CWE better warlord trait and relics, but you lose the powerful CWE powers.
I really wish the characters were cheaper, i`m kind of struggling to get enough long range fire with Ynnari list.

Given that the model releases in the last two years can largely be summed up as: Marines, Marines, Marines, Marines, bigger Marines, more Marines, Evil Marines, even bigger Marines, more Evil Marines etc., you'll forgive me if I find it hard to believe that it's Ynnari that are diluting the attention paid to other armies.

In our gaming group, Ynnari didn't get any attention recently.
Players simply skipped their new release. Most of them are working in the CSM and Daemons department with all the shiny new toys they got.