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 Dysartes wrote:
Abaddon - They took the poster child for Napoleon Syndrome in the 40k setting, and rather than making him smaller, made him much bigger? The fools.

And 5x what would be a reasonable price point.

 sing your life wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Abaddon - They took the poster child for Napoleon Syndrome in the 40k setting, and rather than making him smaller, made him much bigger? The fools.

And 5x what would be a reasonable price point.

So you think that model should retail at roughly £8? In 2019? Um, no.

 NoiseMarine with Tinnitus wrote:
Militarum Tempestus. Scrap the lot and just gives us the Kasrkin sculpts in plastic.

And I don't even play them!

I like the new Militarum Tempestus. I can understand why the older Kasrkins were cool. They were up-armored guardsmen. As GW decided to move forward and make the “international” Stormtroopers different, I feel just going up-armored in looks would have been bad. I appreciate the more baroque armor—the chestplate and detailing. I also like the “sleek, killer” look. I feel like I’m looking at Sam Fishers or MG Snake in 40K. Being a more specialist force, these are the sleek armored killers I’d imagine a government would send out to perform a mission, just sculpt-wise.

So, I'm a massive fan of the Newcron fluff (as someone who's played and modeled with both), because I think the loss in Spooky Bigger Bad (TM) fluff is outweighed by the faction having the same ability to make "Your Guys". As part of that, I get that the Necron HQs look very ostentatious (and I would have stayed at Lychguard levels of bling as my top end) but that's personal preference and can be circumvented with some kitbashing.

The 5th edition Necron vehicles though, are a failure in just about every aspect of design. They're a faff to make, a slog to paint, a nightmare to store/transport and they're way too busy in all the wrong kids of way (mad scientist contraption VS. ostentatious bling). If I was going to redesign them then I'd take inspiration from the Monolith and make them clean, solid, geometric shapes, with their transport/pilot capacity handwaved with pocket dimensions or remote control.

They had already generic stormtroopers though, its just that the kasrkin kits were more recent and phased them out over time



They really just had to update those guys to plastic. I mean, the Scions look fine, but I think the 3rd ed stormtroopers look better conceptually.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
They had already generic stormtroopers though, its just that the kasrkin kits were more recent and phased them out over time



They really just had to update those guys to plastic. I mean, the Scions look fine, but I think the 3rd ed stormtroopers look better conceptually.

I’ve got a thing in this thread’s opposite that fully explains my reasoning.

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:


The 5th edition Necron vehicles though, are a failure in just about every aspect of design. They're a faff to make, a slog to paint, a nightmare to store/transport and they're way too busy in all the wrong kids of way (mad scientist contraption VS. ostentatious bling). If I was going to redesign them then I'd take inspiration from the Monolith and make them clean, solid, geometric shapes, with their transport/pilot capacity handwaved with pocket dimensions or remote control.

Yeah, 5th ed necron vehicles aren't great. You can tell it was made by an artist showing off, considering how out of place they look and how much of a pain in the ass they are to build and paint.
The only vehicle that actually fits would be the flyers, as they follow the same sort of crescent profile as the BFG models, but then they ruin that by adding in a stupid hole that exposes the pilot. Because building a "shoot me here" point in a vehicle is always a good design choice military wise

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:
The 5th edition Necron vehicles though, are a failure in just about every aspect of design. They're a faff to make, a slog to paint, a nightmare to store/transport and they're way too busy in all the wrong kids of way (mad scientist contraption VS. ostentatious bling). If I was going to redesign them then I'd take inspiration from the Monolith and make them clean, solid, geometric shapes, with their transport/pilot capacity handwaved with pocket dimensions or remote control.

Weren't they all new vehicles, though, not redesigns of existing ones?

I was talking more generally about the general Oldcron->Newcron design, but yeah. My point is that under the overall Oldcron design, I think we would have gotten much better made/looking vehicles. Also, I had forgotten about the open cockpits. Who thought that was a good idea!?

 Dysartes wrote:

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:
The 5th edition Necron vehicles though, are a failure in just about every aspect of design. They're a faff to make, a slog to paint, a nightmare to store/transport and they're way too busy in all the wrong kids of way (mad scientist contraption VS. ostentatious bling). If I was going to redesign them then I'd take inspiration from the Monolith and make them clean, solid, geometric shapes, with their transport/pilot capacity handwaved with pocket dimensions or remote control.

Weren't they all new vehicles, though, not redesigns of existing ones?

Yeah, they were all new designs. And it doesn't really work. I mean, I get they were going for an Egyptian boat light vehicle sort of thing to take the necrons into a new direction, but it doesn't fit their design aesthetic, it doesn't fit their lore (why would a race obsessed with not dying design their vehicles to expose their occupants and pilots? Shouldn't they be all canoptek driven to reduce casualties? It doesn't make sense), and they are nightmarish to build.
Their vehicles should either have been geometric, reminiscent of architecture (preferably of the sepulchral kind, such as tomb stones and the like), or spherical. Something solid, that ties into their theme of being the "orderly" race.
Alternatively, they could have just been given larger canoptek constructs orientated for combat as opposed to maintenance. Something like, idk, a robo-scorpion with a particle cannon on its tail.

They could've also gone with a better form on the transports instead of the structure that now is such a pain in the back even if they wanted to make the whole egyptian ship theme...

Yeah.
Don't get me wrong, when built the Ark type models do look pretty nice. Its just that they don't belong in a necron army in terms of aesthetics and they are way too much of a bother to build for me to consider getting several of them.

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:
So, I'm a massive fan of the Newcron fluff (as someone who's played and modeled with both), because I think the loss in Spooky Bigger Bad (TM) fluff is outweighed by the faction having the same ability to make "Your Guys". As part of that, I get that the Necron HQs look very ostentatious (and I would have stayed at Lychguard levels of bling as my top end) but that's personal preference and can be circumvented with some kitbashing.

I could have stomached the special characters being dressed up light Christmas Trees (I mean, who wants Necrons to look even remotely mysterious or threatening?), but was it really necessary that even the standard HQs have to sport ludicrous amounts of bling? Are we sure that these really are Necrons and not just robots programmed to replicate the wardrobe of Lady Gaga?

Yeah, I really prefer the simple cape the old necron lord had to the weird metal thing the characters have nowadays. They clearly used the 2nd ed lord for inspiration for some reason, and that was a terrible idea



I dunno why they decided to bring donkeycavetep back, but they did.

Newcrons- Oldccrons looked so cool, especially the wraith, and their fluff as the faceless, unstoppable bad guys was more interesting than hamfisting another fantasy race into space.

Angry Bird of Khorne... I mean, "Lord of Change." Far too busy, and exudes too much physical power rather than more subtle magic, and contradicts its own lore.

Abandon- too large, too busy, a lot of the detail just looks "off." And that trophy rack.....

Karanak- his heads are too squished together!

Winged Autarch- the pose is "supposed" to be dynamic, but instead he looks like he's posing for a photo.

Farseer- That robe- ugh! I don't know if its the new CAD software or the sculptors, but most of the models from the last 2-3 years with robes, cloth etc. just don't look right.

Ahriman- too busy, same problem with his robes.

Wulfen.

Blastaar wrote:

Abandon- too large, too busy, a lot of the detail just looks "off." And that trophy rack.....

Even though I'm a huge fan of the redesign, I agree with you on the trophy rack. It's too wide. The one in the concept sketches they had in WD looked far better. It's odd to look at and unbalances him a bit. The odd thing is I've made mine into a DP with a bit of minor conversion work and giving the model a set of wings fixes this imbalance straight away.

Blastaar wrote:

Winged Autarch- the pose is "supposed" to be dynamic, but instead he looks like he's posing for a photo.

To me it looks like he's lost his balance and is trying to stop himself falling backwards.

I think the DE Scourges are vastly better when it comes to winged models in 'dynamic' poses.

 vipoid wrote:

Blastaar wrote:

Winged Autarch- the pose is "supposed" to be dynamic, but instead he looks like he's posing for a photo.

To me it looks like he's lost his balance and is trying to stop himself falling backwards.

I think the DE Scourges are vastly better when it comes to winged models in 'dynamic' poses.

I hate that model so much. It represents so much that's wrong with GW character design nowadays. Why have variety and options when you can just have a single monopose character?

Scourges are beautiful. I made entire units out of them in my Corsairs...when they were a thing anyway.

I could have stomached the special characters being dressed up light Christmas Trees (I mean, who wants Necrons to look even remotely mysterious or threatening?), but was it really necessary that even the standard HQs have to sport ludicrous amounts of bling? Are we sure that these really are Necrons and not just robots programmed to replicate the wardrobe of Lady Gaga?

Certainly, I think the Overlord is way OTT, and I think they took that into account with the new Cryptek model (something for the other thread!). As for the old lore, it was perfect for an NPC race but not really broad enough for a player faction IMO.
To continue on this thread (and move my contribution to the subject on), Logan Grimnar on his daft sled looks completely absurd. Who looked at the old model and thought "MORE WOLF"?

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:

I could have stomached the special characters being dressed up light Christmas Trees (I mean, who wants Necrons to look even remotely mysterious or threatening?), but was it really necessary that even the standard HQs have to sport ludicrous amounts of bling? Are we sure that these really are Necrons and not just robots programmed to replicate the wardrobe of Lady Gaga?

Certainly, I think the Overlord is way OTT, and I think they took that into account with the new Cryptek model (something for the other thread!). As for the old lore, it was perfect for an NPC race but not really broad enough for a player faction IMO.
To continue on this thread (and move my contribution to the subject on), Logan Grimnar on his daft sled looks completely absurd. Who looked at the old model and thought "MORE WOLF"?

I thought they were far better before, they were interesting and had unique factors in them. Now they're just boring. I understand wanting to add characters but they cut off they dropped the ball repeatedly with newcrons.

The answer to that is the same person who looked at the Wulfen models and said "good job" rather than "go away".

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:

I could have stomached the special characters being dressed up light Christmas Trees (I mean, who wants Necrons to look even remotely mysterious or threatening?), but was it really necessary that even the standard HQs have to sport ludicrous amounts of bling? Are we sure that these really are Necrons and not just robots programmed to replicate the wardrobe of Lady Gaga?

Certainly, I think the Overlord is way OTT, and I think they took that into account with the new Cryptek model (something for the other thread!).

Oh yeah, the Canoptek cryptek is much better than the fine cast one. Still has that cape and goatee, but they did it right this time. For starters, it doesn't have that stupid crest that they seem to think necrons should have.


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 Phaeron Gukk wrote:


As for the old lore, it was perfect for an NPC race but not really broad enough for a player faction IMO.

If this were a RPG you'd have a point, but this isn't an RPG, its a wargame. You are just controlling figures on a board. Whether or not they have backstories is irrelevant.
Its no different from playing an RTS. In fact, from a player perspective the fact that Necrons are just killing machines is perfect; you, the player, are their central AI, and necrons are the units under your control, like units on computer screen.

In fact, the Necron lore should have gone mechanical, not Egyptian. It should have focused on Tomb World AIs, and they could have given those AIs little quirks, to show their sophistication and the toll time has had on them.
Its why I think its a pity that the Empire of the Severed was never expanded upon, because that's how necrons should have been.

insaniak wrote:It's the current plastic Commissar for me. Not just a step down from the previous models, but a horrible model in its own right - awkwardly posed and proportioned. GW have a long history of awesome Commissar models, so this one was a real 'What were they thinking?' moment.

100% support this statement.

insaniak wrote:

 Formosa wrote:
I am really saddened to say this as I have waited so long but the new chaos space marines squad..... better detail, beautiful models and utter utter crap for customisation, you MUST put them together as the instructions show you, the old multi part kit allowed for a hell of a lot more customisation, different torsos, arms, weapons etc. I hate the new CAD models now :(

It's an unavoidable trade-off, unfortunately... Awesome detail, Customisation, and Ease of Assembly - pick two, and the third is going to suffer as a result.

Ultimately, what's happened is that we've come full circle - we started with monopose metal, with easy (if any) assembly and awesome detail. We progressed to multipart plastic, sacrificing detail and character in favour of customisation. And now we're back to the original style, just in plastic instead of metal... which does at least mean that customisation is easier than it once was, since plastic is easier to cut than metal was.

I really miss the old metal Grey Knights with the ammo feed from the backpack, it looked so much neater. I understand that with the number of options in the kit, that wasn’t possible, but the wrist mounted magazines just look dumb. And don’t get me started on the redesign of the army, but that’s a different thread...

The new scions and Officio Preffectus models.

Scions would look acceptable if they hadn't ornamental, baroque armor. Rigid plates the Kasrkin had would be much better IMHO.
The Tempestor would fit as a replacement for Gilderoy Lockhart, really.

And the commissar looks just slowed. On top of that, he has a curved sword. Curved. Sword.

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:

I could have stomached the special characters being dressed up light Christmas Trees (I mean, who wants Necrons to look even remotely mysterious or threatening?), but was it really necessary that even the standard HQs have to sport ludicrous amounts of bling? Are we sure that these really are Necrons and not just robots programmed to replicate the wardrobe of Lady Gaga?

Certainly, I think the Overlord is way OTT, and I think they took that into account with the new Cryptek model (something for the other thread!).

Oh yeah, the Canoptek cryptek is much better than the fine cast one. Still has that cape and goatee, but they did it right this time. For starters, it doesn't have that stupid crest that they seem to think necrons should have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:


As for the old lore, it was perfect for an NPC race but not really broad enough for a player faction IMO.

If this were a RPG you'd have a point, but this isn't an RPG, its a wargame. You are just controlling figures on a board. Whether or not they have backstories is irrelevant.
Its no different from playing an RTS. In fact, from a player perspective the fact that Necrons are just killing machines is perfect; you, the player, are their central AI, and necrons are the units under your control, like units on computer screen.

In fact, the Necron lore should have gone mechanical, not Egyptian. It should have focused on Tomb World AIs, and they could have given those AIs little quirks, to show their sophistication and the toll time has had on them.
Its why I think its a pity that the Empire of the Severed was never expanded upon, because that's how necrons should have been.

except a big part of 40k has been customizing your units to make it your own, building and painting your army is RPGish in that regard. and oldcrons didn't have a lot of options for that

 Hawky wrote:
And the commissar looks just slowed. On top of that, he has a curved sword. Curved. Sword.

I'm sorry - what's wrong with a curved sword? It isn't like many examples of them haven't existed throughout history...

BrianDavion wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:

I could have stomached the special characters being dressed up light Christmas Trees (I mean, who wants Necrons to look even remotely mysterious or threatening?), but was it really necessary that even the standard HQs have to sport ludicrous amounts of bling? Are we sure that these really are Necrons and not just robots programmed to replicate the wardrobe of Lady Gaga?

Certainly, I think the Overlord is way OTT, and I think they took that into account with the new Cryptek model (something for the other thread!).

Oh yeah, the Canoptek cryptek is much better than the fine cast one. Still has that cape and goatee, but they did it right this time. For starters, it doesn't have that stupid crest that they seem to think necrons should have.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Phaeron Gukk wrote:


As for the old lore, it was perfect for an NPC race but not really broad enough for a player faction IMO.

If this were a RPG you'd have a point, but this isn't an RPG, its a wargame. You are just controlling figures on a board. Whether or not they have backstories is irrelevant.
Its no different from playing an RTS. In fact, from a player perspective the fact that Necrons are just killing machines is perfect; you, the player, are their central AI, and necrons are the units under your control, like units on computer screen.

In fact, the Necron lore should have gone mechanical, not Egyptian. It should have focused on Tomb World AIs, and they could have given those AIs little quirks, to show their sophistication and the toll time has had on them.
Its why I think its a pity that the Empire of the Severed was never expanded upon, because that's how necrons should have been.

except a big part of 40k has been customizing your units to make it your own, building and painting your army is RPGish in that regard. and oldcrons didn't have a lot of options for that

Yeah, and its all cosmetic. Its ultimately no different from choosing a different color palette, and has no bearing on gameplay or background as a whole, unless you mean to tell me that Hello Kitty Marines are now canon. There was no need to force that sort of thing in their lore, especially when players already did what they wanted with their necron armies.
I'm pretty sure those mexican necrons date from 3rd ed, after all. There was no need to introduce background into the game to justify it.

And that's not RPG. By that rational, everything is RPG. Changing clothes on a barbie is RPG, slapping two dolls together and say they're fighting is a RPG. RPG isn't about just about the story (The story is certainly important mind you, as it provides the framework a RPG requires to function, but its not the only factor) or goofy cosmetics, its about meaningful player interactions with the world in a way that effects everything, in correspondance with his background. Its about consequences. That's how RPGs used to be, until people started to confuse them with adventure games, and started to treat them as murder-hobo simulators where you kill things with no consequence and steal their stuff.
Until the game supports rules to make every single model a playable character and the ability to make decisions that affect how the game progresses, or that the player is forced to state their alignment and personality type a general and stick to it (you know, to play a role), its not a RPG.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Hawky wrote:
And the commissar looks just slowed. On top of that, he has a curved sword. Curved. Sword.

I'm sorry - what's wrong with a curved sword? It isn't like many examples of them haven't existed throughout history...

Its a Skyrim reference. The town guards say that about Redguard (Basically Arabs in TES world.)

My opinion of curved swords is identical to the opinion of this town guard.

And his pose suggests he took 'an arrow to the knee' : )

 Apple Peel wrote:
I also like the “sleek, killer” look. I feel like I’m looking at Sam Fishers or MG Snake in 40K. Being a more specialist force, these are the sleek armored killers I’d imagine a government would send out to perform a mission, just sculpt-wise.

See, I hate Scions because I thought the old 3rd Ed Stormtroopers captured that aesthetic perfectly:



They have a very grounded, special-forces kind of feel, but the weapons, cowls, and rebreathers make them suitably 40K, all while being something other than uparmored Guardsmen.

In contrast the Scions are just a little too over-the-top for my tastes. The ornate armor doesn't seem particularly sleek to me, but more importantly, they have a total lack of LBE and gear that I would expect from a SF-type unit.

catbarf wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:
I also like the “sleek, killer” look. I feel like I’m looking at Sam Fishers or MG Snake in 40K. Being a more specialist force, these are the sleek armored killers I’d imagine a government would send out to perform a mission, just sculpt-wise.

See, I hate Scions because I thought the old 3rd Ed Stormtroopers captured that aesthetic perfectly:



They have a very grounded, special-forces kind of feel, but the weapons, cowls, and rebreathers make them suitably 40K, all while being something other than uparmored Guardsmen.

In contrast the Scions are just a little too over-the-top for my tastes. The ornate armor doesn't seem particularly sleek to me, but more importantly, they have a total lack of LBE and gear that I would expect from a SF-type unit.

I don’t know, all I see when I look at those ones are battle-ready bomb disposal. What kind of LBE are you looking for? Stuff for tools or supplies? I think the tool role in the back carries most of that. Scions don’t need to worry about foodstuffs due to the nutrient gruel that can be supplied to the helm from the pack. So there are reasons for that. When I spoke of being sleek, I refer to how smooth the armor plates are at, say the knee and chest, compared to the solid block on these older chests.

I’ve got a response on why I like these in the opposite thread that deals with the throwbacks to old on the current kit and the mesh of old an new compared to WW1.


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They have a very grounded, special-forces kind of feel, but the weapons, cowls, and rebreathers make them suitably 40K, all while being something other than uparmored Guardsmen.

The old trooper are grounded, and that’s nice, but I don’t think that fits in 40K. These guys would look great elsewhere, but 40K has always been about being a little over the top, and I think Scions do that well.