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Hi all, I think of safe to say we’ve all seen the new Contrast Paints from Citadel. However for the job they’ve been designed for would it be possible to to make these at home ourselves???

I mean there a base coat and shade all in one so my thoughts are they’ve got a base and a shade put it all into one pot and mixed it lol I have no idea on how paints are made but I can’t see them being much different from what we already use

Thanks all

No.. I'd put money on that not working at all. Feel free to post results though!

A base paint and a shade paint want to do two different things.
A base wants to be opaque. A shade wants to be translucent.

I think you're going to find that just mixing the two will not yield the results you want.

Contrast paints are transparent and rely on the primer base to provice the opacity. So you'll want a clear medium, something to make it flow better and a high intensity source of pigment.

A fluid matte or satin medium, water and acrylic ink should work. The flow aid could be actual artists flow aid or a couple drops of dish washer rinsing agent or even a bit of dish soap.

F&W, Winsor Newton, Higgins, and others all make good artists inks that are bright and intense. The challenge will be to get CMYK and figure out the ratio of inks to make all the colours you want.

Hmmm. No I don't think so.

Being a very VERY careful mix of medium with new pigments and all that malarkey, it's just going to be impossible to home-made the stuff. Just do the normal method if you're against spending any money.

Without having the new line in hand, it's hard to tell. That said, my "go to" painting method is Future floor polish washes and the results are strikingly similar. Google it for a super simple recipe.
I highly recommend.

 frozenwastes wrote:
Contrast paints are transparent and rely on the primer base to provice the opacity. So you'll want a clear medium, something to make it flow better and a high intensity source of pigment.

A fluid matte or satin medium, water and acrylic ink should work. The flow aid could be actual artists flow aid or a couple drops of dish washer rinsing agent or even a bit of dish soap.

F&W, Winsor Newton, Higgins, and others all make good artists inks that are bright and intense. The challenge will be to get CMYK and figure out the ratio of inks to make all the colours you want.

When you say "rely on primer", do you mean it relys on the primer you put on before hand, or are you saying there is primer inside of contrast paint pots?

Thanks heaps.

The first. The base coat or primer layer provides the highlight colors, and then the thickness variation in the contrast paint provides the shading/base by filtering that more or less intensely. I recall a thread a few months to a year back here about painting with only washes over white primer, its a similar idea.

I mean you could try it... but reading this article I would probably imagine it would be a resounding failure!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/the-science-of-paintgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-3/

You can always chat to INSTAR about how long it took them to create thier paint range if you are curious.

People have been painting with washes and shades and inks on white primer for years. The principle is the same for contrast paints. Just increase the colour intensity and find a good ratio of medium to ink to make it go in the recesses just enough.

I painted with a bunch of vallejo inks tonight on white primer and I bet most of the time, a 50-50 ink to varnish mix with very little water will probably get you what you're after. Ink alone is very intense so it tends not to fade off the high points as much as if you add some matte varnish. Depending on how strong your inks are you may need to add more varnish.

If you're dead set on homemade contrast paints, then you're going to need to learn colour theory to mix your pigments (like inks) in the right ratios. And learning the CMYK colour model is better for transparent colours than working in RGB terms.

I'd recommend just getting some inks and some matte varnish and play around mixing them together and seeing what you come up with. You may not end up with the direct analogue of contrast colours, but you'll learn a ton about transparent paint on white primer and probably not need contrast paints as a result.

 Garrlor wrote:
I mean you could try it... but reading this article I would probably imagine it would be a resounding failure!

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2019/05/31/the-science-of-paintgw-homepage-post-2fw-homepage-post-3/

You can always chat to INSTAR about how long it took them to create thier paint range if you are curious.

To answer this question, it took us around 6 months just to do the base colour shades nearly two years ago, if you take into account the vintage line as well it's taking well over a year to get to where we are now.

Contrast paints are deceptive and we've already managed to reverse engineer them in the lab (To be honest we were already looking into a similar system but they beat us to it, though we already had the basics down) but to do them homemade........It's certainly possible, though getting the ratios right will be trial and error, too much flow agent it'll go soapy when you apply it, too much pigment it'll be really intense, too much binder you'll end up with a very weak solution.

We're still on the fence as to whether we'll release our version or not, we're more on the no side as we're releasing SPECTRUM this weekend (More details on the website) and also we're still working on our Alpha project, we want to do something unique

But yes, you could make them yourself but I think it'll just be cheaper for you to buy them really.

My guess there will be an answer from other manufacturers to pile in the hype cart like Army Painter and Vallejo. Or maybe not, since if you want to paint over white you can just use paints, inks and mediums.

Fist of all, the type of paint is not really new

High pigment, translucent paints are there for a long time now under various different names depending on the brand
Call them Wash, Shade, Ink + adjective of the brand

Quick Shade, Acrylic Ink, Intensity Ink, high liquid Shade, Clear Paint, and so on.

Actually this was always the advantage of Citadel metallic colours as 90% of metallic out there are translucent and more like those shades (there are dedicated painting techniques using those over different base colours for dark/red/blue steel/gold etc)


Main difference for those new Contrast colours is that of course that it will not exactly match anything that is available.
Neither in colour, nor in consistency

So, It would be nearly impossible to get a 1:1 match for the GW colours by doing it on your own (because it would the get the right acrylic medium and pigment types in the correct mix wich means a lot of testing and time)

But if you have your favourite Colours and use standard artistic products to create an Inks/Shades/Washes should be no problem at all


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Supershandy wrote:

But yes, you could make them yourself but I think it'll just be cheaper for you to buy them really.

the interesting part here as sonn as they are released will be to test them against Tamiya, Liquitex, Daler Rowney and GS-World, as all of them have similar colours available

 kodos wrote:
Fist of all, the type of paint is not really new

It's so not new that in my 2003 How to Paint Citadel Miniatures book there are a lot of examples of painting like that including using Citadel Inks (I never owned them) over preshade with white drybrush over black.

Interesting they discontinued their Inks.

 Shadenuat wrote:

 kodos wrote:
Fist of all, the type of paint is not really new

It's so not new that in my 2003 How to Paint Citadel Miniatures book there are a lot of examples of painting like that including using Citadel Inks (I never owned them) over preshade with white drybrush over black.

Interesting they discontinued their Inks.

I think the inks may have been forced behind the scenes, However while that was back in 2003 and for some of us older folks who have been around since the early days of warhammer, for those who are new to the hobby this will be a lifesaver product for those who just want to paint something that looks good and quickly.

While painting skills take time to master to get some really great looking miniatures, many of us just don't have the time to paint or learn, I myself find very little time to be able to paint my Tau army though I want mine to be something that I can be proud of so I will continue to use Instar products (), Contrast is just offering a way in for people to play tournament settings, have a nicely painted army or at the very least Warhammer World (Where you cannot play with a grey army), however it will still take some skill to really get the best out of Contrast, some of the things I've seen so far look fairly untidy and quickly slapped together (It's already available in some countries I think....) so there is still a level of skill required,,,,

So yeah, while it's not a new thing, for the vast majority who are new to the hobby, this is going to be the best thing for them since sliced bread

Are we going to jump on the bandwagon though?

We finally decided no...we already have a new exciting product in the works

To make paint at home... You need pigment powder and some sort of medium. That is too complicated and expensive.

Perhaps comparable substitute could be Indian Ink? Ink has been used historically to stain and etch armor.
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=indian%20ink%20color&qs=n&form=QBIR&sp=-1&pq=indian%20ink%20color&sc=7-16&sk=&cvid=B9D308F0A9134B76B126EF677463F7C2
I have no idea how ink will hold the color over time or react to varnish.

GreenStuff makes Intensity Ink paints as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z7oCJ61knHc

Seeing the contrast paints are 6.30€ a piece and I'm probably not needing more than 10-15ish in greater quantities I'm wondering if anyone has an educated guess how well normal shade/base paints + Contrast Medium mimics the behavior of "real" contrast paints? I mean the ratio of contrast medium to paint might be a bit of trial and error but once you dial that down should it be similar? Basically are the contrast pigments fundamentally different than shade/base or is it all about the contrast medium?

 Weazel wrote:
Seeing the contrast paints are 6.30€ a piece and I'm probably not needing more than 10-15ish in greater quantities I'm wondering if anyone has an educated guess how well normal shade/base paints + Contrast Medium mimics the behavior of "real" contrast paints? I mean the ratio of contrast medium to paint might be a bit of trial and error but once you dial that down should it be similar? Basically are the contrast pigments fundamentally different than shade/base or is it all about the contrast medium?

Paint is generally very fine particles of solid pigment in a liquid suspension medium, while the new Contrast paints appear to be inks, which are typically dissolved into their medium. You may be able to generally replicate the effects, but paint + medium is inevitably going to be more chalky and inconsistent, especially if heavily diluted. Note that GW's current washes are inks, and you can get similar effects to Contrast by adding thicker medium, but that further reduces the opacity so you end up needing multiple coats.

If you want to replicate Contrast (vivid colors in one layer), you'll probably want to experiment with mixes of artist's ink, medium, and surfactant until you get the results you like.

catbarf wrote:

 Weazel wrote:
Seeing the contrast paints are 6.30€ a piece and I'm probably not needing more than 10-15ish in greater quantities I'm wondering if anyone has an educated guess how well normal shade/base paints + Contrast Medium mimics the behavior of "real" contrast paints? I mean the ratio of contrast medium to paint might be a bit of trial and error but once you dial that down should it be similar? Basically are the contrast pigments fundamentally different than shade/base or is it all about the contrast medium?

Paint is generally very fine particles of solid pigment in a liquid suspension medium, while the new Contrast paints appear to be inks, which are typically dissolved into their medium. You may be able to generally replicate the effects, but paint + medium is inevitably going to be more chalky and inconsistent, especially if heavily diluted. Note that GW's current washes are inks, and you can get similar effects to Contrast by adding thicker medium, but that further reduces the opacity so you end up needing multiple coats.

If you want to replicate Contrast (vivid colors in one layer), you'll probably want to experiment with mixes of artist's ink, medium, and surfactant until you get the results you like.

I don't believe they are inks as you can thin inks with water with no problems, they've expressly stated that you shouldn't thin these with water which leads me to believe they have used a medium which gets a higher surface tension when mixed with water meaning it'll attempt to "bead up" on palettes...that or it has so much surfactant in it that it'll go soapy....my educated guess would be that it's the first one as we had similar issues when we first developed our washes.

The fact that they also say it settles quickly leads me to believe that it's a very fine pigment powder as they have also stated that you need to keep remixing it, with ink based washes this doesn't usually happen. But even if it IS an ink it's the medium that's the key, you shouldn't need a great deal of the contrast medium to thin down the new Contrast washes....I mean paints and you probably won't notice the opacity change.

Though the idea of thinning down paint to get a similar effect to contrast isn't that bad an idea, I mean....contrast is effectively coming across as a glaze paint almost....and considering they're dropping glaze paints........

Again though, it's probably still going to be cheaper to buy the stuff outright then try and make your own....and potentially less disappointing

I've read an idea that Contrast is multi-component paint where one medium is heavier than other + something to slow the drying time while heavier part settles in.

I don't think your will achieve the same affect by mixing a Base and a Shade.
However, long before Contrast paints came out, I was mixing Layer paints with Lahmean Medium to achieve similar results. It doesn't quite "base" the model, but it's a far more opaque "wash" than the Shades.

The best part is that I already have all the Layer paints I could ever need, so all I need to do is keep enough Lahmean Medium on hand. It's more convenient than going out an getting the dozen+ Contrasts I'd need to "replace" all my Layers.

If I was starting from scratch though, I'd get the Contrasts

-

Okay thanks a lot for the insight. I'm going to get a pot of contrast medium anyway in addition to some of the paints so I might as well experiment a little.

Contrast paint is a wash with higher pigment density.

As others posted, Contrast paint depends highly on the color of the primer it'll sit on - i.e. contrast paint will not work (as intended) on black primer.

I tried GW washes over a white primer. It does provide the shading effect, but it tends to look a bit "washed out", the color intensity isn't really there.
Adding a little bit of paint to the wash increases the intensity, but not enough (if you don't add too much you still get a mixture that gets into the recesses).
So you need to add more pigments, which means adding inks (real inks, from art supply shops). The main issue is that most inks come in pretty large bottles and are therefore quite expensive, so if you're after cost savings, it won't work with colors you don't use much.

I think the best course of action would be to try and produce a "contrast medium", with something like matte medium + flow aid. Once you have the right consistency, you can add a few drops of ink to get the color intensity that works. But you'll need many different inks (or mix them).

FWIW I'm not talking about creating your own medium but using GW's official contrast medium.

Just looking at the "flow" of the stuff and the end result, I am pretty sure it would be like this:

- Start with ~50% matt-medium (Liquitex).
- 25% Distilled Water.
- 15% Slo-dry (Liquitex)
- 5% Flow-Aid (Liquitex).
- 5% High Pigment Acrylic "Ink" (Liquitex).

I would add the Ink last and count the drops until you get a colour density you like. <edit> May want to compare the look of your mix to the real stuff to see how close you get. This recipe I think is a good baseline and only needs the right pigment density.
I have been making the shade for a while and this stuff is really just a higher pigment version.
The "Matt-medium" is the binder and helps lend more transparency without removing adhesion that too much water could bring. It is what determines how "thick" the paint is.
If you feel the contrast paint does not sit well on the flat surfaces, throttle back on the Flow-aid, it does help with it sitting/levelling better so I would not remove it completely..
The "slo-dry" is to allow more work-time for the pigment to settle into the cracks, the flo-aid helps speed up that process BUT reduces coverage on flat surfaces.

It would not surprise me that there is little difference in formulation from shade other than pigment density.

That's a recipe for a wash, similar to Les Bursley's one. I don't think we know for certain that the contrast paints are just washes.

You can certainly paint using just washes, although doing a zenithal highlight with an airbrush (or just drybrush, using a kind of grisaille method) will produce better results than a wash over white primer.

fresus wrote:
I tried GW washes over a white primer. It does provide the shading effect, but it tends to look a bit "washed out", the color intensity isn't really there.
Adding a little bit of paint to the wash increases the intensity, but not enough (if you don't add too much you still get a mixture that gets into the recesses).
So you need to add more pigments, which means adding inks (real inks, from art supply shops). The main issue is that most inks come in pretty large bottles and are therefore quite expensive, so if you're after cost savings, it won't work with colors you don't use much.

I think the best course of action would be to try and produce a "contrast medium", with something like matte medium + flow aid. Once you have the right consistency, you can add a few drops of ink to get the color intensity that works. But you'll need many different inks (or mix them).

Those ink bottles may be expensive, but they're also pretty large and the pigments very intense. A couple mL goes a long way...

 Vulcan wrote:

fresus wrote:
I tried GW washes over a white primer. It does provide the shading effect, but it tends to look a bit "washed out", the color intensity isn't really there.
Adding a little bit of paint to the wash increases the intensity, but not enough (if you don't add too much you still get a mixture that gets into the recesses).
So you need to add more pigments, which means adding inks (real inks, from art supply shops). The main issue is that most inks come in pretty large bottles and are therefore quite expensive, so if you're after cost savings, it won't work with colors you don't use much.

I think the best course of action would be to try and produce a "contrast medium", with something like matte medium + flow aid. Once you have the right consistency, you can add a few drops of ink to get the color intensity that works. But you'll need many different inks (or mix them).

Those ink bottles may be expensive, but they're also pretty large and the pigments very intense. A couple mL goes a long way...

I agree, and they're very good value too. But the pigment density is so high that apart from maybe blacks and browns, it would take most of us years and years to empty a bottle.
Bottles 10 times smaller for like 5 times cheaper would be much better for mini painters.

Possible? Sure.

Practical? No, not really. Consistency of the mix will be tricky (you'd need to mix up way more than you'll need), and behavioural traits per colour will mess with that too. For the time and effort involved, for me personally, I'll just buy them.

Talizvar's got a recipe here that's very close to what I'd suggest, however, I'd bet that GW's contrast paints dry a lot faster. They'll have worked out the base recipe to behave over a long period of time. Possible they've done some adjustments per colour as well.

 Talizvar wrote:
Just looking at the "flow" of the stuff and the end result, I am pretty sure it would be like this:

- Start with ~50% matt-medium (Liquitex).
- 25% Distilled Water.
- 15% Slo-dry (Liquitex)
- 5% Flow-Aid (Liquitex).
- 5% High Pigment Acrylic "Ink" (Liquitex).

I would add the Ink last and count the drops until you get a colour density you like. <edit> May want to compare the look of your mix to the real stuff to see how close you get. This recipe I think is a good baseline and only needs the right pigment density.
I have been making the shade for a while and this stuff is really just a higher pigment version.
The "Matt-medium" is the binder and helps lend more transparency without removing adhesion that too much water could bring. It is what determines how "thick" the paint is.
If you feel the contrast paint does not sit well on the flat surfaces, throttle back on the Flow-aid, it does help with it sitting/levelling better so I would not remove it completely..
The "slo-dry" is to allow more work-time for the pigment to settle into the cracks, the flo-aid helps speed up that process BUT reduces coverage on flat surfaces.

It would not surprise me that there is little difference in formulation from shade other than pigment density.