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Hi guys!

We had a test and fun game to check for new things to run in our lists....

I play Raven Guard Alpha Strike list on 1k pts with 3 drop pods
With 2 Tac squads, 1 squad of seekers, a few mor deythan and Alvarex Maun

The other player needed a change so he had some help making a new list to show
what list he could play having

1 delegatus, 1 master of signal with heavy support (Augury scanner and Orbital Bombardment)
3 tac marine squads 2 in rhinos

Without knowing what these things do (Scanner+Bombardment) I deepstrike'd as I normal do right in his face (1 Drop with Maun + Mor deythan and 1 drop with seekers)
Heavy support could actually call Skyfire/Interceptor rule and shoot at my movement phase, If we skip the hindsight part where I know what skyfire and just would have drop podded outside those 18"
How do I now compete with having to run up his face with combi meltas/plasmas to Staying outside 18" and shooting from there? And Augury Scanner is 30" in full and 18" if you cant be seen.
How do I denie that?
Heck, why arent everyone running Master of Signals against deepstrikers, havent seen that before?
And Orbital Bombardment, wiped a whole tac marine squad, amazing what that thing does, not too expensive and does a great damage job!

Well, short and (maybe sobering answer): It does not work like this.

In accordance with the current rules and errata the orbital strike of the MoS is no ordenary shooting weapon, but a special ability, that can only be used during the own shooting phase. And follows its own special shooting rules i.e. targetting an other target as the rest of the unit he is attached to.

Master of Signals against Deep Strikers is valuable because Deep Strikers (other than Drop Pods) either show up in a tight cluster or skip out on shooting to Run.

As to trying to use it with the Augury Scanner I'd concur with Xantalora's interpretation that the attack isn't a weapon. Even if it were the Augury Scanner grants Interceptor to Rapid Fire and Heavy weapons, and the Master of Signals' bombardment is an Ordnance weapon.

2 Games in a row my opponent destroyed a full unit of either Dark Fury or Tact Marines

Is there by any chance to denie this "weapon"? I find it difficult to understand it's so easy and so cheap to have a consul that can remove a whole unit in the first round... MoS cost 90 pts, 10 man Tact cost 125 or 10 man Dark Furies cost 330 or so...

Weapons are defined in the Age of Darkness rule book, but I'm going to look into this more because in all the years I've been playing not once has someone intercepted with a template/ordnance weapon

Quoted from the Errata re Legion Master of Signal Consul's Bombardment rule:

"Once per game, in lieu of firing a weapon in the Shooting phase, a Master of Signal can opt to call in a bombardment attack against the enemy....

... This attack has the following profile:
Range (Unlimited) Str (8) Ap (3) Ordnance D3, Large blast (5"), Barrage"

Now it all comes down to your interpretation of this BUT I'd go like this: Bombardment is a special ability that works like a ranged weapon with a profile that you have to activate in your shooting phase. It is not in itself a ranged weapon even though it uses the profile similar to how Witchfire attacks aren't ranged weapons though they use the same profile. So no, you shouldn't be getting Bombarded from Interceptor. At least that's my take on it.

Oh, my question behind it was only how to denie it or stop it.. Since it's so god damn strong, as I said earlier my 2 opponents either destroyed a whole 10 tac marine or 10 dark fury squad - with a consul that cost 90 pts vs 125 / 335pts.

He also gives nice perks.. Ofcourse you have to be friendly with the dice, but 2 different games I get a unit killed with one bombardement.. I dont know who get to hold the most consuls but if I recond correct... Ultramarines can hold 4 of those.... Imagine that

Would be silly to get a few snipers just for 1 guy...

4 consuls? No you'd only get up to 2 as they're a support officer so don't count towards the mandatory HQ you have to take.

As for denying it - kill the unit he's with. Kill his transport. Understand that if he's alive that blast is going to do significant damage and assess him as a threat to deal with.

Stay in rhinos/transports. Run after disembarking from drop pods (unless you dropped to a place where you wanted to shoot). Run after deep-striking if it's something like an Assault Squad (fun fact - Dark Furies would still get there cover save against the attack the turn they land) and spread out.

The MoS is ubiquitous in that it removes a unit from play if you let it. Now I don't know what lists you have or have run into, but with Raven Guard you can infiltrate in an 19" bubble around the MoS - pick your location and apply pressure. Or write off that he's going to fire it at a unit and then work around that.

Per now, I try different stuff..

Lately I ran

10man tact in pod
10 man seekers in pod with combi melta
5 heavy supp with culverines
10man dark furies with 1 vigilator + 1 apoth + praetor buffed with digitals weps, iron halo etc

in a 1500 list.

Problem is that he nukes the deathstar unit so it doesnt get to do anything, I had 10 man tac marines that didnt get on due to the dice gods, and 10 man dark furies who died the first round due to bombardment, but they will always be a target anyways, and its hard to deepstrike since you need to be lucky with that and running them with a vigilator worked somehow better, only thing is that they got nuked anyways..

So I guess, they have to be in a dedicated transport instead but then I dont get to move them as fast I can or should....

My only thoughts are you're bunching them up too close together then.
And remember this is Heresy - you can always ask the guy not to play the MoS every game if it's causing that much of a problem.

Honestly it sounds like he's hiding it in a place you can't get to. What is his regular 1.5k list?

1750 is the lowest point level and how are you running pods without a rite of war?

Spread out your men in conga lines to limit how many are hit? Strategically place artificer sarges to soak wounds as the barrage is only AP3

 BroodSpawn wrote:
My only thoughts are you're bunching them up too close together then.
And remember this is Heresy - you can always ask the guy not to play the MoS every game if it's causing that much of a problem.

Honestly it sounds like he's hiding it in a place you can't get to. What is his regular 1.5k list?

It's hard not to bunch them in, behind a building to avoid Line of Sight.. I can always ask him not to use them/him,
but there must be a good way around it. My strong suite is to alpha strike into my opponent so I guess it's fair
that he uses MoS to prevent that, Hurts like a fether when you forget theres an intercept(rapid fire) in my face
if you jump inside his 18".

Nah, he didnt hide him that much, he started the 1st round thats all... I went without Maun this game just to try out
the praetor. And honestly I dont think I wouldnt have got close enough, fast enough unless I had snipers and theres
a luck chance etc... and basing my list on something that has to kill a MoS first round is lame..? For me that consul is
broken anyway, and if players roll MoS allot or full, it would be more broken, ruining the game prolly.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crablezworth wrote:
1750 is the lowest point level and how are you running pods without a rite of war?

We started at 1000 pts. And I normally go pods, but on 1000 pts it feels like its not worth it against MoS anyways, because I dont get close enough with my combi melta/plasmas



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 agurus1 wrote:
Spread out your men in conga lines to limit how many are hit? Strategically place artificer sarges to soak wounds as the barrage is only AP3

Good Idea, but this is a death star unit thats supposed to get close real fast, thats why I wanted a vigilator aswell, but conga line - not everyone get close enough. And the artificer soaked allot acttually, but only enough so save the Vigilator, Apoth, Praetor.
I even specified that I wanted more buildings because we played too openly..

Also remember the Bombardment is "once per Game" and can not be fired if the consul has moved. I also see you are using an HSS with Volkite Culverine, they should be more than capable to deal with the MoS. Also if the MoS can not draw LoS (from himself or an Nuncio Vox) the Bombardemt scatters full 2d6".

I also highly recoment not to outflank the Dark Furies, as they will be sitting ducks the first turn they arrive. Putting them in tue table first turn and they are an additional target to consider and will pull of an earlier charge.

As for Pods, what is the maximun a MoS can pull of? Either Plasmaguns in a TSS or some heavy Weapons in a HSS. What about a Dreadnought in a Dreaddroppod?

Also you might want to exchange the Praetor for a delegatus, to get more bodys in the field.

I am intriegued, what exact list are you playing against?

Yeah giving us the two lists you and your opponent play will help us help you. As detailed as you can.

 agurus1 wrote:
Yeah giving us the two lists you and your opponent play will help us help you. As detailed as you can.

Oh it's hard to remember exact how theire list are made... But my opponents are Salamanders, Blood Angels/Iron Warriors (Newly went over to Iron Warriors), Ultramarines

Normally the guy that plays Blood Angels plays 2 Assaults Marines Blobs with Centurion and what not in each squad with Paragon Blade, its hard to remember how they are specced
but lets say they are fairly standard but just in large quantity, 20 assault marines or so.. some has shield and fist, but they are made to get as fast as possible in melee, specialy with
the Champion/Centurion (dunno who carries that Blade really, hurts like a fether) since we mostly play shooty lists. 1000 pts
- As for his Iron Warrior whom ive never played against yet but I do know it's a 1000 pts list with Primarch, Termies and a HSS with Missile Launchers. (Personally I didnt want to go for Primarch in my list before 2000)

Salamanders, last game, as far as I can remember... He had 10man Assault Marines, 1 MoS, 1 Medusa (who I sabotaged with my vigilator), Contemptor dread, 1 Land Raider, I think it was a Praetor/delegatus he had... some kind of dude
that can take allot of saves, and has insane survivabilty and can also strike good dmg (like my praetor, but mine dont have those saves/armor/shield/cape like he does) and aprox 20 man Marines + 1 apoth. This was a 1500 pts list

And for last, the ultramarines player, He plays squishy lists.. mostly like me - because we/I havent found my comfort zone on what and which lists works best for me.
He has been trying to play tanks list with 2 Predators and 1 tanks with Magna Melta/or Land Raider, but he placed them so silly it was too easy to kill them so he went
away from that kind lists after my Blood Angel/Iron Warriors player showed him the way of MoS (placed in a HSS group with Culverines) with the Interceptor Rule (This is a game where I didnt know anything where the game was just friendly and a test match, wont do that again, haha)
- So he might be hard to know what plays at the moment, but keep in mind he has also made an MoS, and are in fact making those HSS with the Culverines and maybe some duders with Missile Launchers. We'll see...


My list is based on, 1500 pts
10 man Dark Furies with 1 apoth + 1 vigilator + Praetor with Paragon Blade+Digital Weapons+Iron Halo etc
10 man Seekers with Combi Melta (Due the Medusa, Land Raider, Contemptor)
10 man Tac Marines in Pod (Didnt get on until 4th round, ran away from the contemptor and kept my objective, we played the game we're we had to stay in the enemy lines 24")
5 man HSS with Culverines (Unlucky with the dices, didnt do gak...)

But I have been playing Pod list with Maun, Seekers, Tac Marines and Mor Deythan aswell (1000 pts), but I havent really found 100% what I want yet... I was told I dont play my Dark Furies
enough, so I tried them, really fun when they actually get in Melee but if I play them it feels like they are too much target practice for my opponent (prio first kill) so we had an argue how much
value they give on the table, and by having them nukes in the 1st round I dont really feel that they are worth it yet but shame to buy them and not play them

What I do have for now in total, is 3 drop pods, 20 man Tac Marine, 10 Seekers, 10 Dark Furies, Alvarex Maun, 1 lib, 1 delegatur, 2 apoth, 1 praetor, 10 mor Deythan, 1 Rhino, 2 Vener Dreadnaught (Who I want to play as proxy as Contemptors since I dont really like how they contemptors look)

I would argue that Rules as Written you cannot use the Master Of Signals bombardment attack with Interceptor.

Also the Iron Warriors at 1000 with a Primarch doesn’t sound legal as far as army building?

TBH it sounds like you need something that can shut down that MOS on the turn they arrive with your Dark Furies, so maybe give your seekers a pod and combi-Plasma to nuke em off the table turn 1 as well, or maybe replace the 5 man culverin squad with a plasma support squad in pod?

 agurus1 wrote:
I would argue that Rules as Written you cannot use the Master Of Signals bombardment attack with Interceptor.

Also the Iron Warriors at 1000 with a Primarch doesn’t sound legal as far as army building?

TBH it sounds like you need something that can shut down that MOS on the turn they arrive with your Dark Furies, so maybe give your seekers a pod and combi-Plasma to nuke em off the table turn 1 as well, or maybe replace the 5 man culverin squad with a plasma support squad in pod?

Well isnt it stated so that if you deepstrike / infiltrate within 18" of MoS, he can choose a unit that can rapid fire that your shooting phase? Or even so, what he did.. put MoS in a HSS squad with culverines so they get better BS aswell.

You are probably right... but a shame to dedicate points for that, I mean it's broken with Orbital Bomb, If I wanted to be sneaky enough I should just go with Maun and extra consul with MoS myself, even so, if I put a pod or not, I dont get the full distance with plasma/rapid plasma since I cant infiltrate within his 18", are Mor deythan snipers any good? 5 man or 10 man with preci shot on +5