Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Hey Storm,

If you've got the Rulebook, Codex, and Battlescribe, you're mostly good to go.

The FAQ and Errata typically just clarify rules interactions. If you aren't having a problem with the rules, you don't need them.

Chapter Approved and such also adjust points, and sometimes rules for units (Such as Commissars). While it does change the game, for fundamental rules-learning purposes, not very important.

Consider learning 40k to learning a sport. There are a lot of rules that cover things that really rarely happen. Did you know baseball has rules for hitting a bird with a pitch? I don't know what they are, but I can still play baseball.

That's kind of what 40k is like. You don't necessarily need to have all the rules. You don't specifically NEED to follow them. It's a game with you and your opponent. When you're learning, just do as they do. If you later find out it's wrong, you can fix it going forwards.

The most important part is having fun, learning the basics, and getting a feel for the game.

Thanks every one, just finished the game. I vs'd Dark Angels, and we proxyd GUO as a daemon prince. We both agreed on a draw. But it wasnt really a proper game as it was more of them teaching me the whole time, so im pretty sure he didn't even try at all.


Basicly the person was a legend, and was telling / teaching me what dice to roll and all that sort of stuff pretty much the whole entire time, so was a great experience and im very happy with every thing.


Thanks dakka, really greatful for your kindness and patience and helpfulness. And thank you particularly moderator Intgaer and all mods ( and all dakka participants ) for helping me alot with all of my annoying private message questions.


Thank you!!

Awesome, glad you had a good time!

Thanks Elbow!



More questions


If some thing on a data sheet says this model has 5+ invulnerable save, does that mean any rolls that an attacker does when rolling for wounds mean that any rolls over 5+ does nothing to the enemy?'



Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And does a intercessor on page 10 of the core rules from GW website die because he has 1 wound on the datasheet from when they wrote that rule book?



Thanks

A model that has an invulnerable save may take this save or a normal armour save. The difference is that you ignore the armour modifier, and simply roll your dice. You can take one save or the other, but not both (so obviously you choose whichever one is providing a better save against the weapon you're being targeted with).

A Space Marine Terminator, for instance has a 2+ normal save, and a 5+ invulnerable. Against a bolt gun (no armour modifier) you'd choose the 2+ save because it's going to protect you. However, if attacked with a meltagun (-4 armour modifier) you'd use the 5+ invulnerable save...because your 2+ normal save would become a 6+ save against it.

 Stormatious wrote:
Thanks Elbow!



More questions


If some thing on a data sheet says this model has 5+ invulnerable save, does that mean any rolls that an attacker does when rolling for wounds mean that any rolls over 5+ does nothing to the enemy?'



Thanks!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And does a intercessor on page 10 of the core rules from GW website die because he has 1 wound on the datasheet from when they wrote that rule book?



Thanks

Invulnerable saves are rolled for like/instead of Armor saves. Which core rules are you looking at? The flipout card, the hard cover big rule book, or the ebook from itunes etc. ? That's going to make it easier for people to both point you to the page number you want, and find the page number you ask a question about. As you mentioned page 10, I'm guessing you're looking at the flip and fold reference sheet, not one of the rulebooks? If you have the big hardcover or ebook of the rules, Invulnerable saves are on page 255.

I think you're talking about the Example Turn for the intercessors? Assuming so - They have two wounds in the example, but not all attacks were doing even numbers of wounds, the Intercesor that died in the shooting phase had lost one of their two wounds in the psychic phase. 3 wounds were done in the Psychic phase which killed one intercessor and wounded another once, leaving them with one wound. After that another plague marine threw a grenade which did three wounds to one Intercessor.

This isn't pointed out in the example turn, but this was done for a reason. A bolter does one damage, and there was a marine with one wound remaining, if you shoot the bolters first, you could get rid of the injured Intercessor first, so your multi-wound grenade would kill a whole intercessor - as it's one attack more wounds than the target model has are ignored/lost. This is something you'll want to remember for order of operations.

Its similar to the 4 gallon riddle from Die Hard -
You have two buckets. One holds exactly five gallons and the other three gallons. How can you measure exactly four gallons of water into the five gallon bucket?

Assume you have an unlimited supply of water and that there are no measurement markings of any kind on the buckets.

Fill up the 3 gallon and pour it in the 5 gallon. Then fill up the 3 gallon AGAIN and pour in the 5 gallon until there is 1 gallon left in the 3 gallon. Then, dump out the 5 gallon completely. Then fill the 5 gallon with the one gallon leftover in the 3 gallon. Then fill up the 3 gallon one last time and pour it in the 5 gallon

You want to time your weapon choices to get the as many wounds out of them as possible - to not lose any you could have gotten on wounded models.

Ooooh.



I see now .


Big thanks specifically to - Breton / Elbows / Intgaer / Greatbigtree / BaconCatBug / Slipspace / AndrewGpaul / Ishagu / Ratius / Slipspace / Cripsy78 / FearTheMoose / Alextroy / Gangland / Tarkinlarson / ccs / Skinnereal / QueenAnnesrevenge / Peregrine / Stomonu / Excommunications / Tazlivar / TyranidHorde / Argive and ALL DakkaDakka users and moderators and owners of website.

Cheers.

 Stormatious wrote:
Thanks every one, just finished the game. I vs'd Dark Angels, and we proxyd GUO as a daemon prince. We both agreed on a draw. But it wasnt really a proper game as it was more of them teaching me the whole time, so im pretty sure he didn't even try at all.


Basicly the person was a legend, and was telling / teaching me what dice to roll and all that sort of stuff pretty much the whole entire time, so was a great experience and im very happy with every thing.


Thanks dakka, really greatful for your kindness and patience and helpfulness. And thank you particularly moderator Intgaer and all mods ( and all dakka participants ) for helping me alot with all of my annoying private message questions.


Thank you!!

And thats what its all about!! Playing a fun game and learning and having a conversation.

Glad you enjoyed it. Now its a case of learning one game at a time. (Then coming up with bonkers list with units you like and put the hours in painting!). You guo lools dope btw!

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 Ishagu wrote:
You're a Ray of sunshine, aren't you? And the advice you gave on the previous page was utterly awful and obfuscating for a new player just starting out. I suggest you stop giving advice altogether.

You can easily find someone local who would be happy to show you how the game is played. Just make sure to explain that you are completely new and are still learning the basics. It doesn't take long to get experience. Even easier if you have a local GW store.

Could you please point out where in my advice I was incorrect, so that I may correct it?

Your advice is bad because it ignores the most common type of 40k, playing against local players or with a small group of friends. You act like 40k is played in some kind of weird vacuum were local rules or expectations are not a thing.

I should remember and know this but i dont.


You can only shoot at the closest model within the unit you are targeting? Because i thought that was irrelevent since the other person allocates where the wounds go...

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well im watching a tutorial and this part has me confused.

 Stormatious wrote:
I should remember and know this but i dont.


You can only shoot at the closest model within the unit you are targeting? Because i thought that was irrelevent since the other person allocates where the wounds go...

Cheers


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Well im watching a tutorial and this part has me confused.

You measure ranges between the closest points between two models. As long as at least a single model of the target unit is in range you can shoot at it. For example if you shoot a Heavy Bolter (Heavy 3, 36" range) at a unit of 10 models, one of which is 35" away and nine are 37" away, you can still shoot the heavy bolter and potentially kill three models.

As a new player, I found it confusing why a model can be killed when you're shooting at a different one. It helps to think of it as an abstraction of combat - a boiled down simpllification of what actually happened - and not literal combat between the shooter and the target.

Wait i'm confused still ahahaha. ( sorry)


So i am right that the person can allocate the wounds to what ever model he wants in the unit i am shooting?

You are correct, yes. Feel free to rationalize this however you want. My prefered way is that the unit reorganizes itself as it loses members, such that if a model in the front is "killed" the others move in to close the gap (in the case of a player removing models from the back of the unit). If that makes sense.

Oh god i love hearing "yes" when i ask questions. Ahahahaha.


Thank you so much mate!

 Stormatious wrote:
Wait i'm confused still ahahaha. ( sorry)


So i am right that the person can allocate the wounds to what ever model he wants in the unit i am shooting?

Yep that's correct.
Your attacks target a unit, not a model inside a unit. The player who controls a unit decides which models to remove when the unit takes damage.

EDIT: Ah already answered. The perils of answering a fast moving thread while being distracted with other tasks

Awesome!, thanks, Arson Fire!

So are there any "special" places where you fiind abilitys that models have other then the data sheets?. Or can i reply on data sheets to tell me all that and shouldn't worry about some thing on some book some wherE?

Thanks

 Stormatious wrote:
So are there any "special" places where you fiind abilitys that models have other then the data sheets?. Or can i reply on data sheets to tell me all that and shouldn't worry about some thing on some book some wherE?

Thanks

8th edition (at least initially) went with completely bespoke rules. All the rules for a unit are found on their datasheet, or at worst point you to the page in the Codex where the rule is found (e.g. "And They Shall Know No Fear (pg 131)"). However this has become slightly less true over time as GW don't hire good rules writers, so we now have psudo-USRs in the form of FLY and AIRCRAFT in the BRB errata.

For me page 131 is Bloodletters datasheet lol, i guess im on the wrong book.

So are you saying all the rules for a unit were found "intitially" on the datasheet, or are you talking about right at the moment?

 Stormatious wrote:
For me page 131 is Bloodletters datasheet lol, i guess im on the wrong book.

So are you saying all the rules for a unit were found "intitially" on the datasheet, or are you talking about right at the moment?

Sorry I gave that as a generic example. All the rules for a unit are found on the datasheet in their entirety or as a reference to somewhere else in the codex. The only "universal" special rules are the ones covering FLY and AIRCRAFT in the BRB.

My comment about "initially" is that GW stated that all the rules were going to be bespoke and on the datasheet, but then added in a clunky AIRCRAFT rule instead of sticking to their (flawed) design philosophy and putting the AIRCRAFT keyword and rules on all the datasheets via errata.

You mean the data sheet might reference some thing else in the codex?

 Stormatious wrote:
You mean the data sheet might reference some thing else in the codex?

Yes. For example, Bloodthirsters have the rule "Daemonic Ritual (pg 119)". So, they don't technically have all their rules on their datasheet in full, but do have a rule telling you that it's spelled out in its entirety somewhere else in the codex.

Nice, thanks, Bacon Cat Bug.

I don't think you get stuff like chapter tactics (or equivalent) on the data sheet, so that needs to be remembered.

Where in the rules does it explain that units in detachments of battleforged armies have to be from the same codex? because i can only see where it says they only have to share atleast 1 faction keyword ( chaos for e.g )

 Stormatious wrote:
Where in the rules does it explain that units in detachments of battleforged armies have to be from the same codex? because i can only see where it says they only have to share atleast 1 faction keyword ( chaos for e.g )

Nowhere, because that isn't a rule.

Colloquial Definitions:
Internal Keyword: The keyword shared by units inside a specific detachment.
External Keyword: The keyword shared by all units in the army.

By default, all units inside a detachment in a Battle-forged army must share a common Internal Keyword. There is no need for all detachments to share an External Keyword.

In Matched Play, this is further restricted that said Internal Keyword cannot be CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI, YNNARI or TYRANIDS and that all detachments must also share an External Keyword (which can be CHAOS, IMPERIUM, AELDARI, YNNARI or TYRANIDS).

Example 1: In matched play you can take a detachment of Black Legion, a detachment of World Eaters and a detachment of Daemons, because the detachments are BLACK LEGION, WORLD EATERS and DAEMON, and all detachments have the CHAOS keyword. You can also theoretically take a mixed detachment of Black Legion and World Eaters if you really wanted, as they share the HERETIC ASTARTES keyword, but you'll lose both detachment benefits so there is zero real reason to ever do so.

Example 2: You cannot take a Patrol of Orks and a Patrol of Necrons in the same Matched Play army because the two detachments do not share a keyword, despite the detachments themselves having valid Internal Keywords.

So the units within the detachment have to be the same legion, but detachments it self ave to be the same faction ( chaos etc )?

Crispy78 wrote:
I don't think you get stuff like chapter tactics (or equivalent) on the data sheet, so that needs to be remembered.

most of the special rules are pop ups on the ebook codex, though I think the chapter tactic younstill have to hunt for.

Breton wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:
I don't think you get stuff like chapter tactics (or equivalent) on the data sheet, so that needs to be remembered.

most of the special rules are pop ups on the ebook codex, though I think the chapter tactic younstill have to hunt for.

I dont care about tactics at the moment really.


Thanks for your help though!