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So... we know the process of becoming a Space Marine is a long, difficult one. Space Marines have to go through extremely stringent standards of selection, arduous training and conditioning (both physical and mental), surgical and genetic alterations, tests of loyalty and courage, etc.

Is there any canon support for the existence of "failed Marines"? That is to say, people who got SOME of the training and physical alterations of Space Marines, but were somehow found wanting at a late stage of the process? Examples: a trainee who turned out to not quite have the required mental fortitude. A trainee who could never truly adapt to the culture of his chapter. A trainee whose body rejected an artificial organ. Or a trainee who suffered a training injury that will never fully heal, like a busted leg that leaves him with a limp.

I think there's a lot of potential to the idea of supersoldiers who are not bound by holy (or unholy) vows or duties. For example, they could feature in stories where the protagonists are rogues and criminals.

Fabulous bile's superhumans?

I mean you can argue for or against them

Also scouts.

Failed 'trainees' generally end up dead, servitors or chapter menials.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lexicanum wrote:A Chapter's fortress-monastery is home to a large population of these hereditary servants. Although they occupy a humble position, they are loyal members of the Chapter. They are generally descended from individuals selected as potential recruits to the Chapter, but in the end, judged unfit to become actual Space Marines.[Needs Citation]

The serfs are still inducted into the Chapter cult, and do not begrudge the status they could have obtained.[Needs Citation] They are generally well treated within the Chapter, are educated and trained to a much higher standard than most other servants of the Imperium, and have access to a better range of equipment. Many serfs were unsuccessful aspirants who failed to become Adeptus Astartes. [1c]

beast_gts wrote:
Failed 'trainees' generally end up dead, servitors or chapter menials.

I imagine the more secretive chapters (Dark Angels, Grey Knights) are especially determined to make sure no failed Marine is allowed to leave.

But if (say) a failed Ultramarine declares "Screw it, I'm not living out my life as a serf" and takes the next ship to the other side of the Imperium, I rather doubt the chapter goes through a whole lot of trouble to track him down, unless he knows too much.

-Guardsman- wrote:
But if (say) a failed Ultramarine declares "Screw it, I'm not living out my life as a serf" and takes the next ship to the other side of the Imperium, I rather doubt the chapter goes through a whole lot of trouble to track him down, unless he knows too much.

While true, I'm sure each chapter has contingencies in place to make sure anyone who arrives at the "Screw it, I'm not living out my life as a serf" point of the process is lobotomized and already living life as a serf before the thought of leaving even occurs to them. The indoctrination is just that thorough

-

 Galef wrote:
While true, I'm sure each chapter has contingencies in place to make sure anyone who arrives at the "Screw it, I'm not living out my life as a serf" point of the process is lobotomized and already living life as a serf before the thought of leaving even occurs to them. The indoctrination is just that thorough

It doesn't make for interesting stories, though. The Marvel Cinematic Universe would be pretty boring if each and every Avenger were essentially Captain America. You need characters who have a mind of their own, and characters whose values, methods or motivations do not 100% align. Mind, I haven't read a lot of Space Marine-centric fiction, so what do I know? But I just generally dislike the idea that "everyone has the exact same Lawful Neutral, zealously uncompromising, martyrdom-seeking mentality; if they don't, they're either baby-eating heretics, or dead from a bolt shell to the back of the head".

With this thread I'm basically trying to explore the possibility of having "freelance Marines" in my stories. If you tell me: "Nope, can't happen, because reasons", I'll strive to find ways around it.

.

"Having a mind of your own" is code for Heretic in 40K. That's one of the things that makes it so GrimDark. The MCU is borderline NobleBright, so you can't really compare that style of story telling to 40K at all.

But there are indeed "Freelance Marines" but often they are labeled Renegades and almost always fail to Chaos. Those are also often whole Chapters though.

It's a big Galaxy, so pretty much anything can happen, I was just pointing out that the fluff points to a different commonality that what you are looking for

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 Galef wrote:
"Having a mind of your own" is code for Heretic in 40K. That's one of the things that makes it so GrimDark. The MCU is borderline NobleBright, so you can't really compare that style of story telling to 40K at all.

But there are indeed "Freelance Marines" but often they are labeled Renegades and almost always fail to Chaos. Those are also often whole Chapters though.

It's a big Galaxy, so pretty much anything can happen, I was just pointing out that the fluff points to a different commonality that what you are looking for

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Galef summed it up pretty well. You're basically looking for what was called Blackshields in 30k, during the Horus Heresy, where a lot of marines on both sides went rogue. For 40k, Blackshields are more penitent marines that are survivors of a decimated/dishonoured chapter that are looking for absolution in the Deathwatch.

Some of the blackshields in 30k survived to present 40k era though, you might be interested in these guys: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ashen_Claws

Theoretically? As described? Yes.

On account I’m not aware of any background, old or new etc, that says a human either completes the transition or dies. That’s not canonical to the best of my knowledge.

But? Failed Aspirants are either killed by the process itself, or during training. Those that don’t measure up become Servitors, or, if before any implantation? Chapter Serfs.

keep in mind once you join the chapter leaving is difficult. most chapter monestaries are in locations that are difficult to get to.

 Galef wrote:
"Having a mind of your own" is code for Heretic in 40K. That's one of the things that makes it so GrimDark.

That's just not true. Black Library novels are full of ordinary people who don't spend their waking hours actively seeking martyrdom and their nights dreaming of killing xenos and heretics. They're just... people, trying to survive from day to day in a hostile galaxy. So long as they don't actively work against the Imperium, they're not branded heretics.

There's a difference between "Imperial Thoughts of the Day" and the Imperium's everyday reality.

The MCU is borderline NobleBright, so you can't really compare that style of story telling to 40K at all.

That's not my point. I know the settings are quite different. My point is that characters with different personalities are what makes a story interesting.

No one wants to read a story where all characters have the exact same mindset. Just like you wouldn't read a story where everyone is Captain America, neither would you read a story where everyone is the Punisher or the Joker. Characters need to act as foils to one another. Where one is brash and reckless, another is cautious. Where one is self-sacrificing, another is more selfish. Where one is uncompromising, another is pragmatic and goal-oriented.

Presumably that's also true of Space Marines, otherwise their novels would be boring as hell. Surely there are some Space Marines who do not quite have the attitude that is expected of them, but are not heretical either. Some of them may flunk out during training because of this. That's pretty much what I have in mind here.

.

-Guardsman- wrote:

 Galef wrote:
While true, I'm sure each chapter has contingencies in place to make sure anyone who arrives at the "Screw it, I'm not living out my life as a serf" point of the process is lobotomized and already living life as a serf before the thought of leaving even occurs to them. The indoctrination is just that thorough

It doesn't make for interesting stories, though. The Marvel Cinematic Universe would be pretty boring if each and every Avenger were essentially Captain America. You need characters who have a mind of their own, and characters whose values, methods or motivations do not 100% align. Mind, I haven't read a lot of Space Marine-centric fiction, so what do I know? But I just generally dislike the idea that "everyone has the exact same Lawful Neutral, zealously uncompromising, martyrdom-seeking mentality; if they don't, they're either baby-eating heretics, or dead from a bolt shell to the back of the head".

Unfortunately, that's pretty much EXACTLY what Space Marines are.

Sure, you'll have variations from Marine to Marine, even within the same Chapter and squad (which is where you get your interesting stories - where conflicting ideologies mix, for example, between Abaddon and Loken, or Titus and Leandros), but if your Space Marine isn't a zealot who wants to see the enemies of man burn, then they're a heretic, because that's what a Space Marine is. In your MCU example, it's like trying to make Tony Stark *not* a billionaire philanthropist playboy, or Steve Rogers just a roided-up kid from Brooklyn with a heart of gold, or Thor not an Asgardian god of thunder. That's intrinsic to who they are, their own characters - and it's the same for Space Marines. You remove that element of them, their inhumanity and their hyperfocused attitude, you're better off running with something like a Scion (who ALSO have that kind of mentality, but is easier to work away from).

I just take issue with the idea that you can't write engaging or interesting stories if you have "normal" Space Marines. It's totally capable. Helsreach pulls it off. A lot of the 30k novels pull it off.
A lot of the time, it's interesting *because* the Marine is emotionally stunted, and having their beliefs contrasted by the people they meet who aren't demigods of war and have a more human view of the world is often engaging.

With this thread I'm basically trying to explore the possibility of having "freelance Marines" in my stories.

It's possible, more in 30k than 40k, due to the chaos of the Horus Heresy and less restriction on "how" a Marine was trained.


In 30k, they're called Blackshields - different from the 40k Blackshields who are individual rogue Astartes who wish to atone for any of their sins and fight for the Emperor as part of the Deathwatch. 30k Blackshields are whole groups of renegade Astartes, who could be pro-Imperial, anti-Imperial, pro-Chaos, anti-Chaos, or anything in between.

However, rogue single Marines who fight almost like blind knight errants? It's *possible*, certainly - but more likely because they're the last survivor of their unit/company/Chapter than they were freely let go and allowed to wander. As said above, most of the time, if a Marine fails to complete initiation, they'll either be terminated, lobotomised, or just inducted into the Chapter as a serf. And once you're in the Chapter, only death or dishonour gets you out.
.

basicly the TLDR of it is that Marines are very very differant, but among initates you generally don't see anti-authorian rebels. they screen their canidates very closely, and someone with those tendancies likely wouldn't make the cut

Space marine chapters don't seem very keen on the idea of letting anyone leave... Failed recruits normally get "recycled." It's always possible to imagine a situation where one would manage to escape, but that would take some really unusual circumstances to say the least. The near destruction of a whole chapter, eldar shenanigans, the warp doing warpy stuff...

Even if a fully-formed marine wants to leave his chapter for whatever reason, there aren't many possibilities. He can turn traitor, maybe join some other pirates/renegades/chaos warband or he can ask to join the deathwatch permanently.
Beyond that there's not much... maybe one could arrange to be in service of an inquisitor or a rogue trader? Also, I think there's some fluff saying that space marines need to see an apothecary regularly to make sure their inhuman biology doesn't go wrong. That would mean living outside of their chapter is really not simple.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Sure, you'll have variations from Marine to Marine, even within the same Chapter and squad (which is where you get your interesting stories - where conflicting ideologies mix, for example, between Abaddon and Loken, or Titus and Leandros), but if your Space Marine isn't a zealot who wants to see the enemies of man burn, then they're a heretic, because that's what a Space Marine is. In your MCU example, it's like trying to make Tony Stark *not* a billionaire philanthropist playboy, or Steve Rogers just a roided-up kid from Brooklyn with a heart of gold, or Thor not an Asgardian god of thunder. That's intrinsic to who they are, their own characters - and it's the same for Space Marines. You remove that element of them, their inhumanity and their hyperfocused attitude, you're better off running with something like a Scion (who ALSO have that kind of mentality, but is easier to work away from).

But we're not talking about Space Marines, are we? We're explicitly referring to people who are NOT Space Marines; namely those who literally failed to become them. Furthermore, the dedication to seeing 'the enemies of man burn' is variable at the entrance stage. Your average Space Wolf doesn't even know the Imperium exists before joining, on account of having lived out his life in a nomadic monster-filled Nordic Iron Age wasteland. The Space Wolf trilogy shows us that much. It is easy to conceptualise what the OP is after within the realms of the lore.


For example, imagine if you will, the world of Xanax VI. A primary world within its system; the abundance of rare Resource X, a criticial component in Knight scale meltaguns, resulted in the planet being assigned as the Home recruiting world for the Black Grail chapter of Marines. With their Fortress-Monastery based upon the world, the Black Grail Marines are highly venerated as the protectors of the planet against the Eldar scourge which regularly ravishes neighbouring systems. The scions of all the great and good consequently spend their formative years vying to meet the physical entrance requirements for their Selection Year; desperate to garner the honour and social status joining the ranks of the Black Grail will lavish upon their families.

The Black Grail chapter for their part are fortunate in many ways. Given that Xanax VI possesses several Hive Cities and a large spaceport, their ships are always accorded priority for repairs. Furthermore, the prestige in being associated with them means a ready supply of fresh recruits keen to staff more mundane positions; acting as pilots, drivers, gunners, loaders, and whatever else the chapter requires. So many in fact, that a lottery has to be held every time a Black Grail ship enters orbit, to see who may join the Sons of the Emperor in their quest to bring justice to His Realms.

Unfortunately, where the possibility for success, honour, and glory exists, so too does failure. The Marine implantation and indoctrination process is arduous and many things can go wrong. Some die upon the operating table. Others show themselves to lack sufficient mental fortitude when tested by the Librarians. Whatever the case, for every ten dozen novices taken on the by the chapter, scarce but one survives to don their scout armour. Whilst most die, either by their own hand or from some biological twist; some few always survive, to be turfed out ignominously from the Chapterhouse's gate. Scorned by the society which glorifies their superhuman saviours and expected to make their own end, many such creatures hide themselves away. But not all. Many of those who have survived to such a stage have often received several of the biological enhancements a Marine would have. With physical growth being one of the first adjustments made to their physiology, virtually all boast of a similar outward stature to a Marine, even if they cannot interface with power armour or spit acid. Such strength alone makes them valuable bodyguards and retinues for those in need of protection.

Several hundred such specimens currently make up the staffing roster of one mercenary outfit on Xanax. Known informally as the Spilt Cup group, the band actively seeks out and recruits failed aspirants. Whilst their reputation grants a new recruit more fear than respect, the open disdain shown to a failed novice elsewhe leaves many feeling that they have few other options in finding a place to call home. With their physical stature marking them out wherever they go, donning the faceless helmets worn by the group and seeking solace in the company of others like them does not absolve them of shame. But it provides company in misery, and the opportunity, however different in circumstance, to put into practice the combat skills which they spent years honing prior to that fateful year of disappointment.


Et, voila. A bunch of dirty, disillusioned mercs with the physical strength and size of a marine, if not their many other physical/mental quirks. The Imperium is a large place with many Chapters. The above could be replicated in a slightly different format on a hundred worlds, quite easily. It's certainly within the realms of possibility that it happened on at least one.

Serivahn, the first Emperor's Spears primaris marine to survive the implantation process, was left horribly crippled and deformed but was still a very important figure in the chapter.

Lacking mental fortitude when tested is absolutely grounds for execution or servitor-hood. That would be universal.

Failed physiological changes would most likely result in death, with little medical knowledge (or care) to fix it.

No one wanders in and out of fortress monasteries un-monitored, especially not SM candidates.

As far as a merc company of semi-marines goes, there would be no reason to be ignorant of it happening and less to tolerate it.

The ones that walk away from marine training are aspirants, before any of the implants. We see it with the BA in some of their fiction if they're incompatible with the implants or have some other flaw, they're turned away. If they fail the initial trial (pit fight) and survive, they're turned away. Once the implants go in, being turned away or cut loose isn't in the cards anymore.

And this is one of the more friendly chapters and far past the original concept of marines, where they're largely murderous felons who were drugged and mentally programmed to be obedient little monsters.

Voss wrote:
Lacking mental fortitude when tested is absolutely grounds for execution or servitor-hood. That would be universal.

Would it? Why? There's nothing in the Codex Astartes saying 'Thou must kill all who only make it halfway and fail at the ceremonial milkshake drinking contest'. The fact that many chapters canonically employ their failed aspirants as serfs very clearly shows you to be wrong on this front. What a Chapter chooses to do would appear to be entirely up to them. So universal, it ain't.

Failed physiological changes would most likely result in death, with little medical knowledge (or care) to fix it.

Again, there's a degree of variability here. The Iron Hands? Perhaps. The Salamanders however, are known for their humanity and empathy. I could well see them doing what they could to ease the life/existence of a failed aspirant.

No one wanders in and out of fortress monasteries un-monitored, especially not SM candidates.

Initiates are monitored from the minute they enter the door. Assuming they've been booted out the front of it with appropriate security rigour, who would care? They're not taking anything valuable with them.

As far as a merc company of semi-marines goes, there would be no reason to be ignorant of it happening and less to tolerate it.

Who would care about a bunch of overly muscular losers, when most of them commit suicide and the rest hang around in backalley bars? And when there's a scarce few hundred of them on a world where billions of citizens inhabit each city? The Space Marines wouldn't, they certainly don't have the manpower to be shifting paperwork and doing detective work to track down people they turfed out without giving a damn. Your average smuggler/pirate has people genehanced to space marine size all the time, we see it in various books. A scraping of failed applicants hanging out together would be of no real interest to anybody except the local Arbites.

Many chapters have failed aspirants as serfs; if one decided a year into his first cruise to jump ship at a large orbital trading platform, no marine would care enough to go looking for him. I mean, seriously, 'The Saga of Sven Loreksson and the Hunt for some sour dude who spent the last year changing power cables before deciding to bugger off'. One for the Skjalds indeed!

The ones that walk away from marine training are aspirants, before any of the implants. We see it with the BA in some of their fiction if they're incompatible with the implants or have some other flaw, they're turned away. If they fail the initial trial (pit fight) and survive, they're turned away. Once the implants go in, being turned away or cut loose isn't in the cards anymore.

One chapter's example and your edict that it is so does not make it so.

Regardless of which, we're coming up with one plausible scenario in a vast, vast universe. That's all. There are a million chapters out there. To have a single example which is slightly different is not beyond the realms of possibility. It's clearly canonically feasible, even if it isn't the standard.

 Ketara wrote:

Regardless of which, we're coming up with one plausible scenario in a vast, vast universe. That's all. There are a million chapters out there. To have a single example which is slightly different is not beyond the realms of possibility. It's clearly canonically feasible, even if it isn't the standard.

Well, 40k is very open as a setting; there's not that much that is absolutely impossible according to canon. So yes, you can imagine that some chapter lets failed aspirants leave with a "sorry this didn't work out" and a pat on the shoulder. You can also imagine that some chapter ritualistically kills failed aspirants and eats their brains to honor their memory... All we can really say is that the default stance is to make them serfs or servitors. A chapter will always need laborers, so it makes sense to keep anyone who gets in.
I agree that they probably wouldn't waste time going after a rogue serf, though. As long as they don't know any chapter secrets anyway.

Granted it’s a 30k example but I always though the vigil operatii
Would include some half marines mainly because people that failed for mental reasons wouldn’t be trusted with that kind of power

https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vigil_Opertii

keep in mind if that rogue serf has ANY astartes implants he's damn well got chapter secrets in him.

Scout Marines.

 Melissia wrote:
Scout Marines.

thats a good point, most of the fluff describes them as not yet having the black carapiece.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Scout Marines.

thats a good point, most of the fluff describes them as not yet having the black carapiece.

Aren't Scout Marines just new marines that will eventually become new marines. They haven't failed yet, and just need some extra implants (black carapace as said above) and need extra training. They are also not free to come and go either. So I guess they're "incomplete Marines" but they're not independent.

TarkinLarson wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
Scout Marines.

thats a good point, most of the fluff describes them as not yet having the black carapiece.

Aren't Scout Marines just new marines that will eventually become new marines. They haven't failed yet, and just need some extra implants (black carapace as said above) and need extra training. They are also not free to come and go either. So I guess they're "incomplete Marines" but they're not independent.

scout marines have the most freedom to come and go, to and from the battlefield!

It usually takes a good three to four years to physically modify a child into a space marine. Assuming that these organs take successfully, that still leaves plenty of time for a candidate to fail on the basis of lack of mental fortitude, martial aptitude, and various factors beside biological catastrophe. As mentioned before, gene-enhanced growth implants are not unique to marines, and a favourite for use in fighting rings and the like. It is worth noting that hypnotherapy/brainwashing does not begin until the first two rounds of implants are successful.



When looking at reasons for biological failure, the first implant is the second heart. The second is the Ossmodula, which when combined with the third - the Biscopea- (they are usually implanted at the same time ) are the organs primarily responsible for their exponential growth and meshed ribcages.It is quite possible that the Larraman's Organ (a form of extra liver to add platelets) could easily fail and be rejected; whilst leaving the initiate otherwise well and able to make a full recovery. That would be the most likely point for initiates to be failed purely on biological grounds, whilst still remaining hale and hearty enough to do something like mercenary work. After that, many organs wire into the nervous system and rejection would likely be fatal. The Larraman is non-crucial enough however that survival would be highly likely (it simply needs to be removed, as with any alien foreign object) and early enough in the process that rejection would likely make the Apothecaries unwilling to waste any more effort on the applicant. Certainly, the additional vulnerability to bleeding out on the battlefield would mean that the Apothecary couldn't just skip over it (as sometimes happens with one or two of the later organs).

Usually, failed serfs then wish to carry on serving the chapter in whatever capacity. It is conceivable that being proud warriors however, Marines might not want to be served by those who failed to come up to the mark; instead preferring to send them away in favour of more suitable human servants. This could and does result in failed initiates being mulched into servitors, but it seems like enough of a waste of a perfectly good resource to me that I doubt it would even be the most statistically prevalent outcome. I would imagine that a man with the strength and stature of a Space Marine would be damn useful in many ways, both within the chapter and without.

The more I look into this, the more possible the idea of 'incomplete marines' seems.

The Rites of Initiation Index Astartes article stated:
"If an implant fails to develop properly, it is likely that a Marine's metabolism will become badly out of synchronisation. He may fall into a catatonic state or suffer bouts of hyperactivity. In either event, he will probably die.

Those unfortunates that do not die almost invariably suffer mental damage, degenerating into homicidal maniacs or gibbering idiots. When a Chapter is at full strength these misfits may be put out of their misery. However, if the Chapter is short of Marines they are often allowed to live, and may be placed within their own special units. Those who display uncontrollably psychotic tendencies can be recruited into suicide assault squads."

Is there any canon support for the existence of "failed Marines"? That is to say, people who got SOME of the training and physical alterations of Space Marines, but were somehow found wanting at a late stage of the process? Examples: a trainee who turned out to not quite have the required mental fortitude

As it happens I was reading today some of the original fluff about SM. The gist of it was that a Marine either completes the training or goes mad. There's no inbetween. If you can't handle the process you go mad and end up either dying or being lobotimised. There's no such thing (or at least there doesn't appear to be) as someone who can't handle the process but still comes out the other side as a normal or near normal functioning human being.

 Gashrog wrote:
The Rites of Initiation Index Astartes article stated:
"If an implant fails to develop properly, it is likely that a Marine's metabolism will become badly out of synchronisation. He may fall into a catatonic state or suffer bouts of hyperactivity. In either event, he will probably die.

Those unfortunates that do not die almost invariably suffer mental damage, degenerating into homicidal maniacs or gibbering idiots. When a Chapter is at full strength these misfits may be put out of their misery. However, if the Chapter is short of Marines they are often allowed to live, and may be placed within their own special units. Those who display uncontrollably psychotic tendencies can be recruited into suicide assault squads."

That's certainly an interesting one I haven't heard before. A bit like the Wulfen Squads!

And given that there's eighteen organs in total, frankly, there aren't many which could reject and not be fatal. A solid half of them wire into the nervous system/key organs, so a failure there would either be fatal/destructive to the psyche. Most of the earlier ones affect crucial things like growth and breathing. Depending on how badly they rejected, you might survive, but you'd likely be crippled.

The ones which could likely reject without causing severe permanent physical/mental harm to the applicant are the Larraman's Organ (blood replenishes, so any issues are easily fixed), the Preomnor (assuming you cut the connection between the stomach and the gullet to insert it, you could stitch this back up before starvation set in), the Lyman's Ear (the applicant would just be left deaf), and possibly (I'm not sure on this one), the Betcher's Gland (which lets them spit poison) - a gland should theoretically be easily removable and the candidate able to survive at such a late stage in the process.

That's four out of eighteen where rejection doesn't cause permanent damage, or under 25%.

I'm not entirely sure, that all having been said, how going deaf for example, (Lyman rejection) would make you mad, hyperactive, mentally slowed, homicidal, catatonic, or otherwise likely to die. The writers may have just been generalising given that the vast majority of SM organ rejections (over 75%) would result in that sort of thing.

Grimskul wrote:

 Galef wrote:
"Having a mind of your own" is code for Heretic in 40K. That's one of the things that makes it so GrimDark. The MCU is borderline NobleBright, so you can't really compare that style of story telling to 40K at all.

But there are indeed "Freelance Marines" but often they are labeled Renegades and almost always fail to Chaos. Those are also often whole Chapters though.

It's a big Galaxy, so pretty much anything can happen, I was just pointing out that the fluff points to a different commonality that what you are looking for

-

Galef summed it up pretty well. You're basically looking for what was called Blackshields in 30k, during the Horus Heresy, where a lot of marines on both sides went rogue. For 40k, Blackshields are more penitent marines that are survivors of a decimated/dishonoured chapter that are looking for absolution in the Deathwatch.

Some of the blackshields in 30k survived to present 40k era though, you might be interested in these guys: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Ashen_Claws

Those guys have a dope chapter symbol. It looks like something out of Doom.