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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:10:11
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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Is there a rule set for large battles using AoS similar to 40k's apocalypse?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:11:01
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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Not yet - it might come
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:31:20
Subject: Re:Apocalypse for AoS?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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Not yet, but after reading the rules I am hoping we will see it eventually.
Personally I think it is inevitable. GW seems to go for a "All fronts covered" approach and have now managed to do so for 40k. Only logical to think that they would aspire towards the same for AoS.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:52:06
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Twisting Tzeentch Horror
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There's a special set of rules in the GHB 2018 for supermassive games, but I can't see apocalypse really working in aos- it's definitely a more 40k thing.
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insaniak wrote:
You can choose to focus on the parts of a hobby that make you unhappy, or you can choose to focus on the parts that you enjoy. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 19:59:12
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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We'll see I guess.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/08 20:48:38
Subject: Re:Apocalypse for AoS?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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Actually, I imagine that if they bring a version of Apocalypse for AoS it might be similar to something like WHFB. Would make sense and having bespoke movement trays for rank and file could be a selling point for them.
I am willing to bet someone in game design at GW has already thought of this idea.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/08 20:48:58
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/09 12:23:26
Subject: Re:Apocalypse for AoS?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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They should make a game with movement trays, hand out monsters to everyone and massively increase the power of endless spells. They could call it Storm of Magic or something.
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Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/09 12:30:50
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Experienced Maneater
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McMagnus Mindbullets wrote:There's a special set of rules in the GHB 2018 for supermassive games, but I can't see apocalypse really working in aos- it's definitely a more 40k thing.
This. In hindsight, it looks like an alpha build of the 40k Apo rules.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/09 18:02:14
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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[DCM]
Strangely Beautiful Daemonette of Slaanesh
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WarMaster ?... please?...
(doubt they'll ever go back to 10mm figs,
but 28mm figs on movement trays as mentioned above
and use the WarMaster rules!)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/09 19:24:02
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Gore-Soaked Lunatic Witchhunter
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The difficulty with doing a direct port of 40k Apocalypse is that the hard targets/soft targets divide in AoS is fuzzier. If you're playing Space Marines, for instance, 2W and below is infantry while 6W and above is vehicles, and the only things that sit in the middle and makes it at all fuzzy are Centurions and Attack Bikes. If you wanted to do the same divide in, say, Stormcast, you have things that are obviously soft targets (Liberators and derivatives), things that are obviously hard targets (the Stardrakes), but then you have Dracoths, Dracolines, and Palladors sitting in between the two that don't obviously belong on one side or the other.
You could copy the detachment and activation rules, true, and change to-wound stats to d12s, I suppose.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/09 19:27:02
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/09 19:32:17
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Boosting Space Marine Biker
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I think the biggest obstacle for AoS getting an Apoc ruleset is that it lacks any truly big models outside of the recent Khorne dragon.
Most of the reason Apoc existed in the first place was to let 40k players field Titans, everything else was really just there for set dressing.
Now if only FW would release a model for the Ironweld Arsenal Cogfort...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/09 21:31:13
Subject: Re:Apocalypse for AoS?
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Fixture of Dakka
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Casual gaming, mostly solo-coop these days.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 09:32:39
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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Jack Flask wrote:I think the biggest obstacle for AoS getting an Apoc ruleset is that it lacks any truly big models outside of the recent Khorne dragon.
Most of the reason Apoc existed in the first place was to let 40k players field Titans, everything else was really just there for set dressing.
Now if only FW would release a model for the Ironweld Arsenal Cogfort...
I think the more unique problem with AoS is that it generally doesn't have many big models in general. AoS doesn't have many vehicles such as transports or tanks with the exception of maybe KO. So in this regards it would be much harder to play Apoc AoS due to the fact that people need to buy more infantry which can be cost prohibitive. I mean, if I were to expand my FEC for Apoc level I would end up buying 5 more Start Collecting for FEC which is kinda ridiculous. With DoK you technically just have the cauldron as your big vehicle. With Idoneth you have the turtle. In other words, expanding your forces in AoS is currently very limited.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 10:19:42
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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At present AoS hasn't really got a Killteam equivalent nor an Apoc one. GW did release skirmish rules early on and have recently updated them, but only through White Dwarf at the beginning of the year. At present AoS still hasn't got all their armies with a Battletome, some have never had one since AoS started, others are running on old ones.
Furthermore we've got armies like the various Aelf ones where no one is sure what GW is going to do with them from combining, expanding or removing.
If you look at the points values AoS also runs higher than 40K. For a 2K game you might well be putting down less models for a comparable army in 40K. You can sort of see this with Demon armies. I figure this is to try and keep army sizes a little smaller since the game is basically new to the market and growing its fanbase - even though there's a good tribe of oldies around (and coming back); AoS is still more in its infancy than 40K.
As a result the time isn't right for an Apoc game nor really a Killteam, though Warcry might be stepping into that slot in some form (we don't yet know what its going to be). I fully expect GW to do a full on Apoc scale and type of game rules for AoS, esp since both AoS and 40K are basically running very similar sets of rules.
As for the argument about a lack of "big stuff" I don't think that's quite as valid as some are making out. AoS has a lot of big models, from dragons to giant undersea turtles. Though it does lack "titan" sized models and likely will never have them since FW doesn't seem all that keen on the fantasy franchise end and is also being messed around a lot. They formed an AoS dedicated team, it produced 2 sets of alternate stormcast heads and then it was disbanded. I think that FW isn't in a stable place right now and pressures through the loss of some key staff as well as GW's own focuses alongside all the specialist games etc... has left FW kind of understaffed and without a strong direction to itself. AoS suffers in that regard because Old World was mostly ignored by them. FW team seems to love tanks above all else and that really is evident when you look at what they produce in bulk - lots of marines, lots of Imperial Guard and lots of Tau. Far less organics even though they can do them really well.
The other thing I think is that AoS has less unit divisions than 40K. 40K has a much greater breakdown of unit types from troops, anti tank, jumpjets, skimmers, dedicated fliers, tanks, artillery, supertanks, knights, titans.
AoS is missing big gaps really. There's no dedicated flying models nor concept within the force (everything is basically jump-jet style flying). There's no real artillery since it seems a lot of them got removed (either through models being removed and/or through single armies being broken up into many smaller ones leaving them without artillery); whilst it has large models all the way up to dinosaurs, dragons and greater demons there's nothing that really starts to come close to a Warhound or Reaver titan.
That said GW could certainly do Apoc for AoS, it would just have a different feel and possibly be more infantry heavy. They might even throw a bone to the old-fantasy fans and evolve the Warmaster rules and release rank and file style movement trays for it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 10:49:25
Subject: Re:Apocalypse for AoS?
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Angered Reaver Arena Champion
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As for the argument about a lack of "big stuff" I don't think that's quite as valid as some are making out. AoS has a lot of big models, from dragons to giant undersea turtles.
I think the problem is more in the variety of big stuff. Idoneth has the Turtle so if you want more big stuff you will add... another turtle. Whereas if I was playing Apoc Craftworlds I could take Wave Serpents, Falcons, Fire Prisms, Wraithknights, Wraithlords, Wraithfighters, Crimson Hunter Exarchs, Night Spinners, Vypers, War Walkers, and that before I start adding Forgeworld stuff. Then you also tend to have more named characters that cost more and tend to be hard to field in normal 40k games(Court of the Young Prince style detachment would be pointless in normal 40k game).
However, as with you I do believe an Apoc version is inevitable for AoS. What I do believe though is that instead of fighting as faction vs faction I would be more inclined it were framed as Grand Alliance vs Grand Alliance. I mean, that's the Apoc version of AoS as whole Grand Alliances muster for war to defend their side. It would also open the door for what GW loves most: People buying more than just one specific faction.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 10:55:51
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Honestly I'd be very happy if GW moved the concept of Grand Alliances into an Apoc scaled game. I think its a fantastic idea because it means that the grand alliance concept moves out of the regular balanced core game and into the apoc region where balance isn't as much of an issue because those games are often way more social and just for fun.
I think the concept of Grand Alliances in the core game is a bit tricky because its so easy to "soup break" it and GW has otherwise done really well at preventing that in AoS in general.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 11:47:22
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Mighty Vampire Count
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AOS has the variety of large creatures and indeed REALLY big stuff in the background material - in fact much bigger than Titans but Forgeworld /GW does not make many of them.
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I AM A MARINE PLAYER
"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page
A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 12:15:03
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Liche Priest Hierophant
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Would be kind of hard to make, though. We'd really need Warmaster back so that you can have normal stuff the size of a Titanicus Warlord and then the humongous stuff that's the size of a 40k Warlord.
And then you still cannot actually portray the continent sized beasties.
I joked before, but if GW wants an AoS equivalent of Apocalypse, I think it would actually be more sensible to go the Storm of Magic route with more instead of larger monsters, and have cataclysmic spells. Maybe even expanded magic rules where spells face off against other spells (magic monster clash  ) instead of being weapons used against normal models.
Eldarsif wrote:Jack Flask wrote:I think the biggest obstacle for AoS getting an Apoc ruleset is that it lacks any truly big models outside of the recent Khorne dragon.
Most of the reason Apoc existed in the first place was to let 40k players field Titans, everything else was really just there for set dressing.
Now if only FW would release a model for the Ironweld Arsenal Cogfort...
I think the more unique problem with AoS is that it generally doesn't have many big models in general. AoS doesn't have many vehicles such as transports or tanks with the exception of maybe KO. So in this regards it would be much harder to play Apoc AoS due to the fact that people need to buy more infantry which can be cost prohibitive. I mean, if I were to expand my FEC for Apoc level I would end up buying 5 more Start Collecting for FEC which is kinda ridiculous. With DoK you technically just have the cauldron as your big vehicle. With Idoneth you have the turtle. In other words, expanding your forces in AoS is currently very limited.
Part of the reason Apocalypse came into being is that 40k had simply existed so long that "more infantry" was just a description of the average long-term player's collection. In this way even though Age of Sigmar is now four years old, it may sitll be too early for that to naturally evolve for most players. I don't think GW minds the cost prohibitive nature of that, though. I could imagine them seeing a great opportunity to sell some bundle deals because of the larger number of potential customers.
I think AoS Apocalypse would also be the natural place for mixed Grand Alliance armies, much like those free city themed boxes from a while back. As you say, AoS isn't hurting for factions that at a normal points level work but are so under supplied with different units that you wouldn't get a fun Apocalypse sized army out of them. Enter an alliance system, conveniently oriented around detachments like in Apocalypse, and you'll get a lot more mileage out of the Grand Alliances., Well, Order and Chaos anyway.
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Nehekhara lives! Sort of!
Why is the rum always gone? |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 13:22:39
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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I know AoS isn't very old, but aren't most of the models from WFB still viable for use?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 13:39:16
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Clousseau
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Technically all of them are. Many are not matched play viable. There is even a GHB 2019 faq that states explicitly if there is no profile in the ghb for the model it is not matched play legal (which has a lot of people up in arms right now) though everything has a warscroll somewhere so if you aren't beholden to matched play you can still use those models.
Then there is the matter of them being mostly garbage rules-wise.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 14:09:34
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Pyromaniac Hellhound Pilot
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auticus wrote:Technically all of them are. Many are not matched play viable. There is even a GHB 2019 faq that states explicitly if there is no profile in the ghb for the model it is not matched play legal (which has a lot of people up in arms right now) though everything has a warscroll somewhere so if you aren't beholden to matched play you can still use those models.
I can understand, spending money on models and being told you can't use them anymore.
Then there is the matter of them being mostly garbage rules-wise.
Yeah, but they tend to be the most fun to play.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 14:25:23
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Clousseau
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If anything it should let GW know that after blowing themselves up with no points in AOS on launch and then catching liquid hot rage when removing things from matched play means a giant chunk of their playerbase are matched play only.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2019/07/10 14:40:55
Subject: Apocalypse for AoS?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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auticus wrote:If anything it should let GW know that after blowing themselves up with no points in AOS on launch and then catching liquid hot rage when removing things from matched play means a giant chunk of their playerbase are matched play only.
I don't think its just about being "matched play only" but rather that even the other two modes - open and narrative - basically build right off the back of matched play. That finding and playing games is infinity easier when both sides have a common set of rules and points to work with.
The people I see who really loved AoS at the start are all mostly cut from a similar cloth - they were all keen to write and play their own game rules. For them AoS was great fun because communities embraced the home-brew openly and quickly. Even without the unity between groups, the fact that the group could play at all was what they were after.
It was a shocking release because it showed how utterly out of touch the upper management were with their customerbase.
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