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The only "realistic" zombie scenarios are where its an aggressive virus that drives people violently insane, like 28 Days later. And even then its going to be too aggressive and burn itself out, or the hosts have to be too far insane to remember to drink, and succumb to environmental effects and/or dehydration.

The better zombie movies are where the victims go insane and aggro, but still remain capable of basic reasoning, which means it's much harder to just avoid or get away from them.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Well, Zombies inherently require suspension of disbelief. And I’m a massive Zombie fan.

Hence, on occasion, I like to start this sort of discussion. Helps ground things a bit, and, much like a Zombie virus, get the old grey cells ticking over


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Besides, one can always put any Zombie invasion down to ‘Necromancer hiding somewhere’.

Indeed, one of the best explanations of Zombies I’ve ever found is in Black Library’s Liber Necris. Supposedly a treatise on Necromancy by none other than Mannfred Von Carstein.

The description of ‘how it works’ is certainly interesting. I would say original, but perhaps ‘original so far as I’m aware’ is more interesting.

Zombies require a relatively small amount of Magic, as it’s effectively replacing the brain’s impulses. Skellingtons? The magic essentially forms an otherwise invisible musculature.

As I said, interesting, if perhaps not original?

IMHO, the way that Days Gone on PS4 handled things makes far more "sense" in zombie mythos to me than most other media out there.

Spoiler that isn't so spoilerish: the zombies are infected via some kind of parasite, so the "dead" never really die, they evolve/mutate via whichever particular variation of the zombie parasite they get. In terms of fictional universes it does seem to neatly skirt the issues inherent in modern, real world virus response (ie, issues mentioned earlier in thread about quarantines and certain reactions based on thought out plans and risk matrices)

Can Firefly/Serenity "Reavers" be like zombies... but not quite?

That was a chemical or drug that was designed to get rid of the will to fight and be peaceful, but in a small number of people it caused psychopathic rages.

I don't know how they managed to build space ships etc.

I've always thought of a potential for a manufactured virus that is designed to wipe humanities will to fight or higher reasoning (and memory). But if that was targeted at other brain centres you could just produce people who were angry or scared/aggressive and just fought and attacked. I don't know how you would get them to attack other people and not other infected though.

To me slow zombies have never made sense. I mean in some of the movies you could just push them over and it wasn't until they lurked and jumped out they would bite you (thinking of the one in the shopping mall). Even in countries with a lack of guns easily available firearms like the UK we would use bats, sticks, tools, shovels etc to fight slow zombies and they wouldn't stand much chance.
Plague Inc tries to gamify a plague of some sort, and includes a pseudo walking dead situation with some kind of parasite worm that infects the brain.

Isn't there a parasite that lives in the guts of cats, which then gets pooped out and exposes mice, which gets in their brain and then makes them more "adventurous" and less fearful so they are more likely to be eaten by cats... cycle completes. I'm sure it's even been proposed that it lives in humans and in some of us causes more reckless behaviour as it changes our brain chemistry.

Reaver's didn't build ships but they flew them. Evidently Reavers didn't attack other Reavers. Thats like the super rabies virus idea: its a similar concept, but one that just makes you hyper aggressive, yes I could see that. Basically everyone who was infected was zinged with a super version of the Butcher's nails going full tilt at all times.

Reavers clearly had some construction skills, even if it was more akin to bolting things together rather than fine manufacture. So they'd steal and tear apart and then stick what they needed together.

Remember in the end of the film some very unique ships appear and they even have capital class ships to use.


I think the key is that Reavers were cannibalistic and clan orientated with a hyper strain of aggression in them. This made them very nasty because they could and would work together and they clearly could build and advance their own ships to their own ends. Even if they didn't care about radiation leaks and the like.

I would suppose that the Reaver mania came in ebbs and flows. Don't forget the first time they are seen the Reavers don't attack, they tag Serenity and follow it. That shows a significantly higher level of thinking than your typical zombie. It's just when in combat against others Reavers go into a near manic blood-rage-craze.


Also don't forget we never actually saw a Reaver outside of combat. The only one we got close too was one of the crew of an abandoned ship and we are never sure if that individual was ever infected with the virus or if they were simply the result of extreme and prolonged torture.

The (most acceptable) answer is just Romero's trilogy.
How things go south is implied at the beginning of Dawn of the Dead. A mix of disorganization, stubbornness, incredulity, religious bigotry, desire to go against the authority creates thousands of isolated mini-outbreaks that lead to an overwhelmed civilization.
You see people keep zombies in the basement because they are their friends and kin.
Understandably, being people human, too human, cannot accept that these people are dead. You even have a scientist or officer at the beginning, in the tv station, talking about the fact that he is worried because people are not acting rationally.
Later Romero movies show that the dead "change" (even recovering part of their cognitive functions, at least if properly stimulated) therefore gaining some sort of pseudo-life, invalidating most of the "why bacteria/insects do not..." criticism.

It's still unrealistic, but is the best you can have with this amount of acceptable suspension of disbelief.

 AegisGrimm wrote:
The only "realistic" zombie scenarios are where its an aggressive virus that drives people violently insane, like 28 Days later. And even then its going to be too aggressive and burn itself out, or the hosts have to be too far insane to remember to drink, and succumb to environmental effects and/or dehydration.

The better zombie movies are where the victims go insane and aggro, but still remain capable of basic reasoning, which means it's much harder to just avoid or get away from them.

Actual zambi organisms sort of do this.

it will force a creature it infects to do something to complete its life cycle, such as making parasitic worms making a snail climb high to get eaten by birds, or a fungi that makes ants climb up to high locations to spread spores.

there reason most zombino effects dont really work is because it never sufficiently answers the why. there is no reason to make a human walk around biting other people to spread more of the same to do it again. it serves no purpose in its life cycle unless say every time it bit some one it transferred over a more powerful version or a different step it is cycle which could be a cool hook. (normal psycho person > super mutated person > person mutates further into spore tower or something)

World War Z the book series lays out exactly how the world would handle a zombie invasion.




Essentially people would break off from one another but not like complete morons in the Walking Dead. Governments would still sustain themselves as tribalism brings people together. And many areas would be relatively safe, other areas like major cities not so much. Places already well defended and heavily militarized.

Deep sea pockets would be the most heavily packed with zombies from dead refugee ships floating throughout the pacific and the Altantic.

Zombies in general would only be a threat if people are dumbasses. Which they wouldn't be in certain areas of the countries. Some places would be entirely sacrificed to stop zombie infestations in their tracks, and having safe zones as bait areas. And true isolation areas like Hawaii and the upper rockies would be very safe from zombies. Because geography as a jerk and zombies really can't climb that well.

Zombies would freeze in certain parts of the country and would be unable to move entirely and during this time it would be the easiest to hunt them down, except heavily snowed areas of iceland and Canada and some parts of the US.

Some parts of China and most parts of europe would be dead zones with the exception of mountainous regions where it would be easier to defend.

In my view, countries are not so dumb to waste all of their militaries on defending regions that will be lost.

All it takes is one loss for the military to figure "Yeah that isn't working." and to go to high ground.


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 Easy E wrote:
The premise that once society falls apart, then things get nasty/mad max-esque with every small group of jackwads form themselves is itself a huge fallacy of the genre, IMHO.

But yeah, unless coupled with some other major disaster (Plague, Nuclear War, Mass Famine, Enviro Disaster) then Zombies make no sense as an actual society destroying threat.

Que World War Z book.

Last i recall though TWD series kinda excuses it by saying that universe didnt popularize the zombie concept through films and what not. which is why they call them walkers instead of just zambis.

 Desubot wrote:
Last i recall though TWD series kinda excuses it by saying that universe didnt popularize the zombie concept through films and what not. which is why they call them walkers instead of just zambis.

Thats really lazy, even in-universe reasoning for the zombies somehow taking out the entirety of a government structure and military personnel is hilariously stupid. These aren't elaborate bioweapons, even in the ridiculous confines of Resident Evil Games the world is fine after the first outbreak. In the movies, they are completely idiotic and everyone dies. But in TWD its just like the Governments just sent all their important officials in to die.

Zombies are slow-moving and not assassins, even if one were to get into a government facility they would be trapped entirely in those sections. Fortified areas like Norad and others would be where all the government leadership would retreat to, and there would be no way people would be that stupid to lose the entirety of the leadership, there are always contingencies in place for disaster. Even in real life we have plans of actions set in place in the case of horrific plagues etc, and would be taken as a case by case scenario.

These TV Shows and Comics that show "Oh the Americans are too stupid!" they will all just die to the zombies! Is such a logical fallacy in itself, even if it did happen the US Military, Government and forces would be able to survive? In the case of an Alien attack? No, Humanity would be screwed if we faced off against a technologically superior race. But Against zombies: who have no weapons, no vehicles, no tactics, and no actual strategy would not be able to defeat humanity in any official capacity.

This is one of the largest problems that Zombie Apocalypse's face is that nations would persist, people have a national identity and are willing to come together to face adversary and what greater adversary than a unifying evil of a creature that eats you? Zombies do not have the capabilities to deal with a suitably prepared US and its government forces, if anything the US and several nations would be able to survive the war with the zombies and would be able to make although smaller stabilized region for the US to control and within maybe a hundred years would stablize the US regions and the world.

I read WWZ when it first came out but IIRC the chapter dealing with how the US Armed Forces were not up to the task was one of the dumbest things I have ever read off of a physical page (so, excluding the internet).

 Manchu wrote:
I read WWZ when it first came out but IIRC the chapter dealing with how the US Armed Forces were not up to the task was one of the dumbest things I have ever read off of a physical page (so, excluding the internet).

Are you referring to the Battle of Yonkers?

 Easy E wrote:

 Manchu wrote:
I read WWZ when it first came out but IIRC the chapter dealing with how the US Armed Forces were not up to the task was one of the dumbest things I have ever read off of a physical page (so, excluding the internet).

Are you referring to the Battle of Yonkers?

yeah up until that point the US military was doing fine, the only time they failed was at the battle of yonkers because they were entirely over confident which seems more pausible than the US military being defeated on the field

 Asherian Command wrote:


Thats really lazy, even in-universe reasoning for the zombies somehow taking out the entirety of a government structure and military personnel is hilariously stupid.

Im aware

no one really does zombies right. i dont think it can ever really be done right without magic or non actual dead zombies. i think the most brutal one that "could" be realistic is crossed

and that comic is messed up yo.

But Against zombies: who have no weapons, no vehicles, no tactics, and no actual strategy would not be able to defeat humanity in any official capacity.

Unless of course your Zombies are armed military contractors with a plan

So to go back to ‘existing disease which could replicate Zombies’.

We’ve established that tertiary stage syphillus (Google at your own risk. Do not post results on Dakka. Do not sue Mad Doc Grotsnik for retinal scarring) can easily replicate the look. Seriously, that’s a hideous disease.

For the general lack of coordination, there are no end of brain infections etc which could provide that (not that you’d want them to).

Rabies makes the infected want to spread it, usually through biting. So that’s the ‘why are they eating me/why you don’t want to get bitten’ bit largely covered.

But what about that most central of Zombie traits, the lack of pain? I mean, I don’t think total invulnerability to all but headshots is going to be realistic. But we see through illicit drugs, such as PCP, the human body able to keep going through severe pain. But are there disease which offer the same? Well, do the same. Because that’s probably not an offer one wants to accept.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So to go back to ‘existing disease which could replicate Zombies’.

We’ve established that tertiary stage syphillus (Google at your own risk. Do not post results on Dakka. Do not sue Mad Doc Grotsnik for retinal scarring) can easily replicate the look. Seriously, that’s a hideous disease.

For the general lack of coordination, there are no end of brain infections etc which could provide that (not that you’d want them to).

Rabies makes the infected want to spread it, usually through biting. So that’s the ‘why are they eating me/why you don’t want to get bitten’ bit largely covered.

But what about that most central of Zombie traits, the lack of pain? I mean, I don’t think total invulnerability to all but headshots is going to be realistic. But we see through illicit drugs, such as PCP, the human body able to keep going through severe pain. But are there disease which offer the same? Well, do the same. Because that’s probably not an offer one wants to accept.

Experimental combat / bio weapons seem a more likely route - who knows what stuff people are messing with around the world.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So to go back to ‘existing disease which could replicate Zombies’.

We’ve established that tertiary stage syphillus (Google at your own risk. Do not post results on Dakka. Do not sue Mad Doc Grotsnik for retinal scarring) can easily replicate the look. Seriously, that’s a hideous disease.

For the general lack of coordination, there are no end of brain infections etc which could provide that (not that you’d want them to).

Rabies makes the infected want to spread it, usually through biting. So that’s the ‘why are they eating me/why you don’t want to get bitten’ bit largely covered.

But what about that most central of Zombie traits, the lack of pain? I mean, I don’t think total invulnerability to all but headshots is going to be realistic. But we see through illicit drugs, such as PCP, the human body able to keep going through severe pain. But are there disease which offer the same? Well, do the same. Because that’s probably not an offer one wants to accept.

I mean with science going off lately with the whole crisper thing, you could say some company is making a bio engineered virus used to make or be an alternative non addictive pain killer that some how mutates into one that does it but also makes people absolutely BSC like people on pcp with infections only requiring saliva. but realistically a component police force after maybe the first encounter should be able to deal with it no problems. at least in the USA. set it in the uk then maybe the cultural differences would allow it to propagate.

I guess something like that, rendered aresol and released over major population centres would prove somewhat problematic?

Especially if there’s a chance the worst effects (if a modified, PCP type narcotic) would wear off?

TarkinLarson wrote:

To me slow zombies have never made sense.

Slow zombies were more of a thing in the era of "the dead rise from their graves" style zombies, where their numbers are largely formed around the idea that the dead vastly outnumber the living and everyone will someday join them. They were supernaturally impervious to force and only developed weaknesses as stories needed to give the heroes some means of fighting back. It's one of those things that have gotten less believable as they've added more believability to them. All the rules and structure and science makes them susceptible to rules, structure and science that doesn't really allow them to exist.