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No, it is not "her fault." No one cares about fault.

She has knowingly or unknowingly (and after researching her, she definitely knows where she is and what she is doing) into a toxic online community. Informed risk and all.

The people who are harassing her bear the responsibility for their actions, no one told them what to do, they just did it. This is because they are poorly developed, immature people who also like to pass blame onto others, instead of standing up and being real men, taking responsibility for their actions and acting with maturity rather than with jovial debauchery.

At the same time, she bears the responsibility for going into that community to participate in it, and to profit from it. She is choosing to capitalize on that lewd culture in order to make money and earn a living. That's her choice. And any responsibility she has with relation to it is in informed decisions.

No point trying to talk sense when ex is around. Out come the blatant logical fallacies and refusal to actually debate because clearly their point holds the high ground and thus is correct.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Right.

It's just a total coincidence that you're damning Belle Delphine because "she isn't accountable" - assuming, without deciding, that it is even true - while you twist and squirm to avoid the obvious conclusion that the accountability you demand from her applies equally to the people sending her unsolicited sexual material; a behaviour that, for whatever reason, you're eagerly defending and excusing.

At the very least, I'd be expecting Togusa to be calling out the people sending the unsolicted sexual material. If they didn't, that would call their entire argument about "accountability" into question.

I have. Multiple times, I've explained what their role is in their own personal accountability.

However, I am not a judge. I cannot cast stones at a fellow human being. What more would you like me to do?

 Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

nfe wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Ayuh.

Belle Delphine has to be acountable. The degenerates sending her unsolicited sexual material don't.

Not all men, but definitely this one.

They're going to do what they want to do, they're going to make choices on how to behave. That is not my responsibility, that is their responsibility. And you know this very well.

If you go online acting like a hoebag, do not be surprised when people with no moral standing and poor decision making skills treat you like a hoebag.

Should I be surprised that I get the ever living gak kicked out of me if I go into a biker bar, find three black men and start hurling racial slurs at them for "Teh luls?"

Slut-shaming and comparing the sale of used water to racism is really highlighting your objectivity, here.

Don't forget the implicit assertions that she is irresponsible, indecent and disrespectful. And the explicit, ahem, 'arguments' that she's "a hoebag" and engaging in "risky behaviour".

So it's totally her fault that people send her unsolicited sexual material. Because reasons that definitely aren't naked assertions, or personal opinion passing as established fact.

No, it is not "her fault." No one cares about fault.

She has knowingly or unknowingly (and after researching her, she definitely knows where she is and what she is doing) into a toxic online community. Informed risk and all.

The people who are harassing her bear the responsibility for their actions, no one told them what to do, they just did it. This is because they are poorly developed, immature people who also like to pass blame onto others, instead of standing up and being real men, taking responsibility for their actions and acting with maturity rather than with jovial debauchery.

At the same time, she bears the responsibility for going into that community to participate in it, and to profit from it. She is choosing to capitalize on that lewd culture in order to make money and earn a living. That's her choice. And any responsibility she has with relation to it is in informed decisions.

This is what I was saying.. But SCREECH VICTIM BLAMING SCREECH.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Togusa wrote:Does she play to the audience that she is attracting? Yes or no?

Are people entitled to sexually harass her? Do you think people are EVER entitled to sexually harass another? Yes or no?

Togusa wrote:Do not be surprised if lewd behavior illicit's lewd behavior.

But do you think that's acceptable? That's the real question here.

Do a little research on her and you'll find a lot more risky behavior than just some innocent PR stunts involving bath water.

I don't care what she's done. It doesn't excuse people making unwanted sexual judgement or harassment. That is slut-shaming.

No it is not acceptable, as I have stated a dozen times by now.
No people can't just harass her because they feel like it.

It's cool and all, I get it. The youth of today will do anything and everything to avoid taking personal responsibility for their own actions. Victim culture is the narrative of the day, it's here to stay.

If there is a place where terrible people live and prey, and you go there and get mugged, and you knew that this was not a good place to go or to hang out, you bear responsibility for your own action of going there. If you did not understand the risk, that's on you. If you did, then you should have known better. Don't be surprised when people have a hard time feeling sorry for you in that instance.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
No point trying to talk sense when ex is around. Out come the blatant logical fallacies and refusal to actually debate because clearly their point holds the high ground and thus is correct.

Irregardless of him, I find this discussion to be a good one. It seems quite civil to me at the moment, which is a good thing.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

Spoiler:

 Excommunicatus wrote:

nfe wrote:

 Togusa wrote:

 Excommunicatus wrote:
Ayuh.

Belle Delphine has to be acountable. The degenerates sending her unsolicited sexual material don't.

Not all men, but definitely this one.

They're going to do what they want to do, they're going to make choices on how to behave. That is not my responsibility, that is their responsibility. And you know this very well.

If you go online acting like a hoebag, do not be surprised when people with no moral standing and poor decision making skills treat you like a hoebag.

Should I be surprised that I get the ever living gak kicked out of me if I go into a biker bar, find three black men and start hurling racial slurs at them for "Teh luls?"

Slut-shaming and comparing the sale of used water to racism is really highlighting your objectivity, here.

Don't forget the implicit assertions that she is irresponsible, indecent and disrespectful. And the explicit, ahem, 'arguments' that she's "a hoebag" and engaging in "risky behaviour".

So it's totally her fault that people send her unsolicited sexual material. Because reasons that definitely aren't naked assertions, or personal opinion passing as established fact.

No, it is not "her fault." No one cares about fault.

She has knowingly or unknowingly (and after researching her, she definitely knows where she is and what she is doing) into a toxic online community. Informed risk and all.

The people who are harassing her bear the responsibility for their actions, no one told them what to do, they just did it. This is because they are poorly developed, immature people who also like to pass blame onto others, instead of standing up and being real men, taking responsibility for their actions and acting with maturity rather than with jovial debauchery.

At the same time, she bears the responsibility for going into that community to participate in it, and to profit from it. She is choosing to capitalize on that lewd culture in order to make money and earn a living. That's her choice. And any responsibility she has with relation to it is in informed decisions.

This is what I was saying.. But SCREECH VICTIM BLAMING SCREECH.

That's the issue of the day. This is why I cannot put myself in any political camp, everyone focuses on finding someone to make a monster out of, and someone to victimize or make a victim out of. Then, once this goal is attained, any discussion of responsibility of the individual is tossed out the window. It's a common tactic used by both the left and the right in America to shut down discussions that use logic to skirt someones attempt at rigging the conversation.

I presume you take the same position when someone gets stabbed walking home late at night? An aid worker gets abducted and beheaded in Syria?

The first thing you do is clarify that whilst the aggressor was also at fault, they shouldn't have put themselves in that position, right?

Well it's the reason I've never gone to any of those countries without a high powered rifle.

Togusa wrote:

At the very least, I'd be expecting Togusa to be calling out the people sending the unsolicted sexual material. If they didn't, that would call their entire argument about "accountability" into question.

I have. Multiple times, I've explained what their role is in their own personal accountability.

However, I am not a judge. I cannot cast stones at a fellow human being.

Really? You're throwing a lot of stones at Delphine, and not at the people degrading her. In fact, the only time I've seen you actually address those commenters directly was in response to me calling you out on it here.

Yet against Delphine? You created a thread about it, using language that paints her actions in a negative aspect, and most of your posts are in opposition to her. What was that about "throwing stones"? Take some responsibility.

What more would you like me to do?

Stop slut-shaming and victim-blaming. Quite simple, really.

Togusa wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Togusa wrote:Does she play to the audience that she is attracting? Yes or no?

Are people entitled to sexually harass her? Do you think people are EVER entitled to sexually harass another? Yes or no?

Togusa wrote:Do not be surprised if lewd behavior illicit's lewd behavior.

But do you think that's acceptable? That's the real question here.

Do a little research on her and you'll find a lot more risky behavior than just some innocent PR stunts involving bath water.

I don't care what she's done. It doesn't excuse people making unwanted sexual judgement or harassment. That is slut-shaming.

No it is not acceptable, as I have stated a dozen times by now.

So why do you think that it's Delphine's fault for doing things in a "toxic environment", when it's not her making it toxic?

No people can't just harass her because they feel like it.

But apparently they can, because she should have known better? That's equally ridiculous.

It's cool and all, I get it. The youth of today will do anything and everything to avoid taking personal responsibility for their own actions. Victim culture is the narrative of the day, it's here to stay.

So if you ask for terrible people to stop harassing you, you're just being a victim?

And people like you wonder why rape victims don't come forward.

If there is a place where terrible people live and prey, and you go there and get mugged, and you knew that this was not a good place to go or to hang out, you bear responsibility for your own action of going there. If you did not understand the risk, that's on you. If you did, then you should have known better. Don't be surprised when people have a hard time feeling sorry for you in that instance.

Or maybe people shouldn't just tut and say "oh well, you should have known better" and instead actually get off their high horse and do something about the environment their laziness has caused.

We don't blame people for owning a TV if it gets stolen by a thief. But clearly, you think that they should be to blame as well, and should take responsibility for owning at TV.

For all your talk of "responsibility", your overzealousness in blaming Delphine and those aforementioned twitch streamers I mentioned shows a blatant bias against them, and not the people actually causing the toxic problems in that environment. By blaming the victims, you are allowing for an acceptance of those toxic environments, which causes the harassment of those people.
Therefore, you are responsible for allowing those environments to exist.

What are you going to do about that, seeing as you're all about people taking responsibility for things?

nfe wrote:
I presume you take the same position when someone gets stabbed walking home late at night? An aid worker gets abducted and beheaded in Syria?

The first thing you do is clarify that whilst the aggressor was also at fault, they shouldn't have put themselves in that position, right?

When someone gets stabbed walking home at night from work, they're the victim of a crime.

If someone leaves work, goes into a bad neighborhood with the intent on purchasing drugs, and gets stabbed, that's a crime, that was also avoidable.

When an Aid worker in Syria gets abducted and killed, that is a crime. However, they took the chance and presumably knew the risks that such a thing would happen by going to a warzone to provide aid. This would be an example of informed consent.



We tend to call the former person (the one who got stabbed while doing something illegal) a moron, and the latter person (the Syrian aid worker) a hero.

 Togusa wrote:

nfe wrote:
I presume you take the same position when someone gets stabbed walking home late at night? An aid worker gets abducted and beheaded in Syria?

The first thing you do is clarify that whilst the aggressor was also at fault, they shouldn't have put themselves in that position, right?

When someone gets stabbed walking home at night from work, they're the victim of a crime.

Is abuse and harassment not a crime?

If someone leaves work, goes into a bad neighborhood with the intent on purchasing drugs, and gets stabbed, that's a crime, that was also avoidable.

Is wearing certain clothes and behaving "lewd" a crime?

No it is not acceptable, as I have stated a dozen times by now.
No people can't just harass her because they feel like it.

You've referred her rather consistently by pejoratives for someone stating you aren't judging and don't consider harassment acceptable. .

That's the issue of the day. This is why I cannot put myself in any political camp, everyone focuses on finding someone to make a monster out of, and someone to victimize or make a victim out of. Then, once this goal is attained, any discussion of responsibility of the individual is tossed out the window. It's a common tactic used by both the left and the right in America to shut down discussions that use logic to skirt someones attempt at rigging the conversation.

You fit in a political identity just fine. Your OP and continued condemnation of this woman makes it pretty clear that you want to make a monster of her and/or victimize her.
At _best_, you want her to stop (at least in the OP), but you've ceased framing it that way. Now she's just a "hoebag," but sure, claim you aren't throwing stones.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Well it's the reason I've never gone to any of those countries without a high powered rifle.

I do it all the time. It's fine. And worthwhile.

For clarity, though, every time a foreigner is murdered your first response is 'Take the rough with the smooth'. When pressed, you'll agree that 'oF course, ISIS were in the wrong, but you know what you're setting yourself up for, right?

Every policeman that was murdered by the IRA? Every lone walker murdered at night?

The other person was at fault BUT...

If so, yeesh, but fair enough. If not, why not?

Excommunicatus is not a "him".

nfe wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Well it's the reason I've never gone to any of those countries without a high powered rifle.

I do it all the time. It's fine. And worthwhile.

For clarity, though, every time a foreigner is murdered your first response is 'Take the rough with the smooth'. When pressed, you'll agree that 'oF course, ISIS were in the wrong, but you know what you're setting yourself up for, right?

Every policeman that was murdered by the IRA? Every lone walker murdered at night?

The other person was at fault BUT...

If so, yeesh, but fair enough. If not, why not?

Furthermore, if that's genuinely the argument they're going to use, that opens up a WHOLE load of slippery slopes.

"Oh, that bank lost all your money? Serves you right for using that bank!"
"You got aggressively confronted by a cop because your skin colour prejudiced them against you? Guess you shouldn't have lived in America!"
"You got stoned to death in Brunei because you're gay? Guess you shouldn't have been gay, or lived in Brunei!"
"Got food poisoning? Serves you right for eating at XYZ!"
"School shooting? Shouldn't have gone to school!"

This is ridiculous. We should blame the perpetrator for crimes, not the people it happens to, simply because they happened to be near where the crime was.

Guys, there's a difference of scale in the crime here...

Are you really equating being murdered with receiving lewd images or messages on the internet? Seriously?

If you dive in a pool of sewage, you gotta expect to have some stick to you when you get out. Gamer culture on the internet is toxic and full of absolute garbage people. If you get involved with that in any way, you can expect inappropriate messages to come back at you.

It sucks, but it's a terrible, toxic subculture. Unlike in real life where you may have to walk through bad areas, you can choose to just not interact with "gamer" culture.

Really? You're throwing a lot of stones at Delphine, and not at the people degrading her. In fact, the only time I've seen you actually address those commenters directly was in response to me calling you out on it here.

Yet against Delphine? You created a thread about it, using language that paints her actions in a negative aspect, and most of your posts are in opposition to her. What was that about "throwing stones"? Take some responsibility.

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that discussing the actions of the streamer in question was me "throwing stones" at her. I thought I was talking about her behavior and how it related to the problem.

Let me be clear.

When a girl goes onto twitch.tv to stream a session of her playing Deep Rock Galactic with some friends, and receives unsolicited dick picks, she has been the victim of immature people.

When a girl goes onto twitch.tv and purposefully uses meme culture, revealing clothing and blatant sexualized movements and speech in order to profit from men who are desperate enough to give her money, she is cultivating the behavior the first girl got, on purpose.

Stop slut-shaming and victim-blaming. Quite simple, really.

I've no interest in buzz words meant to shut down open discussion.

So why do you think that it's Delphine's fault for doing things in a "toxic environment", when it's not her making it toxic?

Interesting. Egging on behavior to make money isn't her contributing to the toxic environment?

If you compare her to other twitch streamers, is she more like Pokimane, or Brittany Venti? Bonus points if you can tell me the difference between the two and why that matters.

But apparently they can, because she should have known better? That's equally ridiculous.

You all really seem to be hung up on this. Calling it like it is, isn't supporting it and saying its okay.

Some countries in Africa and the middle east are plagued with sectarian violence, rape and murder. It's not okay, but it is the reality of the situation and cannot be changed by soft language and talk. Deep roots and all.

So if you ask for terrible people to stop harassing you, you're just being a victim? And people like you wonder why rape victims don't come forward.[/spoiler]

Don't assume what I wonder about please. And, no, asking for people to stop harassing you isn't you being a victim. Going to a place where harassment is common, doing the very behavior that eggs on said harassment in order to make money, and then crying when the harassment then occurs is what happens when someone "plays" being a victim, instead of actually being a victim. See the above examples of a normal girl playing games on twitch and a person just walking home from work, as compared to the other two in each case and play spot the difference.

Or maybe people shouldn't just tut and say "oh well, you should have known better" and instead actually get off their high horse and do something about the environment their laziness has caused.

Uh-oh! So I am to blame for bad cultures. L O L.

We don't blame people for owning a TV if it gets stolen by a thief. But clearly, you think that they should be to blame as well, and should take responsibility for owning at TV.

Clearly, I don't. But it's really hard to argue against a personal responsibility narrative and young people especially get mad when they learn how life actually works.

You know, if you have sex, with no protection and you get a girl pregnant. Well, that was your dumb mistake.

If you have sex, with protection, and the protections fails, and you get a girl pregnant, that's called an accident. You're still responsible, but you did do everything right. You were responsible for your actions by acting as safe as you could.

What are you going to do about that, seeing as you're all about people taking responsibility for things?

Personal responsibility.

But, just to be a little nice, I do help. By not being a toxic piece of gak to people, by not sending nude photos to random women online, or looking at celebrity nude leaks or any of the thousands of other gaking things people do in this world. If that's not enough for you, too bad.

Victim blaming, slut shaming, what's next on the incel checklist? Arguing that the people sending offensive messages are really "nice guys" and blaming feminism for allowing women to say no to them and forcing them to be desperate creeps?

 Horst wrote:
Guys, there's a difference of scale in the crime here...

Are you really equating being murdered with receiving lewd images or messages on the internet? Seriously?

If you dive in a pool of sewage, you gotta expect to have some stick to you when you get out. Gamer culture on the internet is toxic and full of absolute garbage people. If you get involved with that in any way, you can expect inappropriate messages to come back at you.

It sucks, but it's a terrible, toxic subculture. Unlike in real life where you may have to walk through bad areas, you can choose to just not interact with "gamer" culture.

Well, yeah. That is the 'argument'.

But that 'argument' was not raised by the side that has been so eloquently encapsulated as SCREECH VICTIM BLAMING SCREECH by our resident third-rate Rod Liddle impersonator. With all bits of gravy on him.

It was raised to exclude conduct that absolutely is a crime from other conduct that is absolutely a crime - nonsensically - by the side that is bravely and heroically defending entrenched privilege and attempting to dictate what is and is not acceptable, foreseeable and, somehow, therefore justifiable according to personal peccadilloes that they have learnt but consider innate.

Also, really obvious cop-outs.

She is the topic of the post is she not?

She is toxic, people like her use this as a shield while they make a tidy profit and hurt actual women gamers online. What is supremely ironic is that while she is turning it around on the incel like communities online, she's also taking the piss on the more progressive communities that want to fight for her. Playing both sides for gain.

I didn't call her a hoebag, I'm used it as a descriptive term to explain the behavior she goes for in a lot of her videos. Nice try though.

 Horst wrote:
Guys, there's a difference of scale in the crime here...

Are you really equating being murdered with receiving lewd images or messages on the internet? Seriously?

According to some people, the victim is at least somewhat to blame too. So I see no reason they can't be equated.

These same people see no issue in calling what attractive streamers do "pornography", so again, I think this is easily par for the course.

If you dive in a pool of sewage, you gotta expect to have some stick to you when you get out. Gamer culture on the internet is toxic and full of absolute garbage people.

Sewage isn't a person. Sewage is a non-sentient, non-living object. Culture is people.

If sewage affected you, it didn't do it of it's own action, because it's literally not alive.
If a person affacted you, that's because they took action.

For the person who was aghast with people comparing crimes with crimes, it's funny that you're comparing people with literal inanimate trash.

If you get involved with that in any way, you can expect inappropriate messages to come back at you.

This is the problem. You expect and allow for people to continue to be inappropriate instead of actually doing something about it and refusing to accept it.

It sucks, but it's a terrible, toxic subculture. Unlike in real life where you may have to walk through bad areas, you can choose to just not interact with "gamer" culture.

Maybe the responsible thing to do is to dismantle that toxic subculture, if you genuinely think it is toxic, like you say.

Maybe the bad area is where you have to walk to go to work. Maybe it's your school. Maybe it's your country. Maybe it's the whole planet.
You can't just keep saying "well, you were in a bad place, so you deserve it".

How would you go about dismantling a toxic subculture? What you are proposing doesn't sound possible even. The best thing you can hope to do is quarantine it. People aren't going to stop being gakky just because you don't want them to be.

Even if you do manage to dismantle it (which I don't think is possible), you get rid of Dephine's money source. Do you honestly think normal, well-adjusted people are going to buy her bath water, or pay to watch her play video games in her underwear? No. Normal, well adjusted men do not do this. So, if you manage to get rid of the toxic subculture, you get rid of her source of income, which means she doesn't participate in the toxic subculture anymore anyway.

nfe wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Well it's the reason I've never gone to any of those countries without a high powered rifle.

I do it all the time. It's fine. And worthwhile.

For clarity, though, every time a foreigner is murdered your first response is 'Take the rough with the smooth'. When pressed, you'll agree that 'oF course, ISIS were in the wrong, but you know what you're setting yourself up for, right?

Every policeman that was murdered by the IRA? Every lone walker murdered at night?

The other person was at fault BUT...

If so, yeesh, but fair enough. If not, why not?

Don't misquote me dude.

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest that not flailing wildly to defend it is a decent first-step.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Guys, there's a difference of scale in the crime here...

Are you really equating being murdered with receiving lewd images or messages on the internet? Seriously?

According to some people, the victim is at least somewhat to blame too. So I see no reason they can't be equated.

These same people see no issue in calling what attractive streamers do "pornography", so again, I think this is easily par for the course.

If you dive in a pool of sewage, you gotta expect to have some stick to you when you get out. Gamer culture on the internet is toxic and full of absolute garbage people.

Sewage isn't a person. Sewage is a non-sentient, non-living object. Culture is people.

If sewage affected you, it didn't do it of it's own action, because it's literally not alive.
If a person affacted you, that's because they took action.

For the person who was aghast with people comparing crimes with crimes, it's funny that you're comparing people with literal inanimate trash.

If you get involved with that in any way, you can expect inappropriate messages to come back at you.

This is the problem. You expect and allow for people to continue to be inappropriate instead of actually doing something about it and refusing to accept it.

It sucks, but it's a terrible, toxic subculture. Unlike in real life where you may have to walk through bad areas, you can choose to just not interact with "gamer" culture.

Maybe the responsible thing to do is to dismantle that toxic subculture, if you genuinely think it is toxic, like you say.

Maybe the bad area is where you have to walk to go to work. Maybe it's your school. Maybe it's your country. Maybe it's the whole planet.
You can't just keep saying "well, you were in a bad place, so you deserve it".

Sarge...you can't change human nature in a day, week, year of century.

Toxic culture does suck, and it's on each person to choose not to be a part of that culture. It is not on me to police the next guy however.

2pac once said in an interview that he didn't know how to be responsible for what every black male did, but that he did know how to be responsible for what he did. It'd be nice if more people thought that way these days. Make a better world, I'm all for it, but don't die on a hill fighting lost causes you cannot change.

 Peregrine wrote:
Victim blaming, slut shaming, what's next on the incel checklist? Arguing that the people sending offensive messages are really "nice guys" and blaming feminism for allowing women to say no to them and forcing them to be desperate creeps?

I do believe we've jumped to 'aggressive self defense' against foreigners who are 'that way' because its 'just reality' and 'deep roots,' so things escalated quite a bit faster than expected.

Togusa wrote:She is the topic of the post is she not?

Unfortunately yes. That would be the root of the issue- the premise that the poor behavior isn't the problem, but the one woman is.

I didn't call her a hoebag, I'm used it as a descriptive term to explain the behavior she goes for in a lot of her videos. Nice try though.

It isn't a noun, it's an adjective!

 Horst wrote:
How would you go about dismantling a toxic subculture? What you are proposing doesn't sound possible even. The best thing you can hope to do is quarantine it. People aren't going to stop being gakky just because you don't want them to be.

Even if you do manage to dismantle it (which I don't think is possible), you get rid of Dephine's money source. Do you honestly think normal, well-adjusted people are going to buy her bath water, or pay to watch her play video games in her underwear? No. Normal, well adjusted men do not do this. So, if you manage to get rid of the toxic subculture, you get rid of her source of income, which means she doesn't participate in the toxic subculture anymore anyway.

HERE HERE.

The best way to do so is to

A. Don't be that person in the first place.
B. When you have your own kids, teach them, raise them and love them.

Who is defending this sub culture, Ex? You keep saying people are defending it.

Nobody is defending it. Nobody should receive unwanted sexual messages. The problem is, I don't think there's a way to stop it. What exactly is your solution, except to complain about it? Are you suggesting the police track down people who sent unwanted sexual messages and charge them with sexual harassment? What if the messages come from a foreign country? What if people are sending them anonymously, and cannot be tracked down?

Offer some solutions please, or stop suggesting that everyone is "flailing wildly to defend" these asshats.

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

 Horst wrote:
Guys, there's a difference of scale in the crime here...

Are you really equating being murdered with receiving lewd images or messages on the internet? Seriously?

According to some people, the victim is at least somewhat to blame too. So I see no reason they can't be equated.

These same people see no issue in calling what attractive streamers do "pornography", so again, I think this is easily par for the course.

If you dive in a pool of sewage, you gotta expect to have some stick to you when you get out. Gamer culture on the internet is toxic and full of absolute garbage people.

Sewage isn't a person. Sewage is a non-sentient, non-living object. Culture is people.

If sewage affected you, it didn't do it of it's own action, because it's literally not alive.
If a person affacted you, that's because they took action.

For the person who was aghast with people comparing crimes with crimes, it's funny that you're comparing people with literal inanimate trash.

If you get involved with that in any way, you can expect inappropriate messages to come back at you.

This is the problem. You expect and allow for people to continue to be inappropriate instead of actually doing something about it and refusing to accept it.

It sucks, but it's a terrible, toxic subculture. Unlike in real life where you may have to walk through bad areas, you can choose to just not interact with "gamer" culture.

Maybe the responsible thing to do is to dismantle that toxic subculture, if you genuinely think it is toxic, like you say.

Maybe the bad area is where you have to walk to go to work. Maybe it's your school. Maybe it's your country. Maybe it's the whole planet.
You can't just keep saying "well, you were in a bad place, so you deserve it".

Also, saying it happened isn't saying you deserved it.


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Voss wrote:

 Peregrine wrote:
Victim blaming, slut shaming, what's next on the incel checklist? Arguing that the people sending offensive messages are really "nice guys" and blaming feminism for allowing women to say no to them and forcing them to be desperate creeps?

I do believe we've jumped to 'aggressive self defense' against foreigners who are 'that way' because its 'just reality' and 'deep roots,' so things escalated quite a bit faster than expected.

Togusa wrote:She is the topic of the post is she not?

Unfortunately yes. That would be the root of the issue- the premise that the poor behavior isn't the problem, but the one woman is.

I didn't call her a hoebag, I'm used it as a descriptive term to explain the behavior she goes for in a lot of her videos. Nice try though.

It isn't a noun, it's an adjective!

It's unfortunate, but sometimes the drive for fame and money can turn the best of people into the worst.

 Horst wrote:
Who is defending this sub culture, Ex? You keep saying people are defending it.

Nobody is defending it. Nobody should receive unwanted sexual messages. The problem is, I don't think there's a way to stop it. What exactly is your solution, except to complain about it? Are you suggesting the police track down people who sent unwanted sexual messages and charge them with sexual harassment? What if the messages come from a foreign country? What if people are sending them anonymously, and cannot be tracked down?

Offer some solutions please, or stop suggesting that everyone is "flailing wildly to defend" these asshats.

People are clearly defending it. It isn't everyone, but it ranges from the passive 'well nothing can be done, so whatever' to the active 'it is the woman's fault for encouraging it.'

Stating out-right that it isn't acceptable, and people should be punished for doing it is, in fact, a step in the right direction. Just one, but saying 'No, you don't get to do this' (or, rather sadly, 'No, you can't drag us back to this') is how things start.

 Horst wrote:
Who is defending this sub culture, Ex? You keep saying people are defending it.

Nobody is defending it. Nobody should receive unwanted sexual messages. The problem is, I don't think there's a way to stop it. What exactly is your solution, except to complain about it? Are you suggesting the police track down people who sent unwanted sexual messages and charge them with sexual harassment? What if the messages come from a foreign country? What if people are sending them anonymously, and cannot be tracked down?

Offer some solutions please, or stop suggesting that everyone is "flailing wildly to defend" these asshats.

Exactly, none of us in this thread wants this behavior to continue.

Have you heard of that game Mordhau? It's a really fun game, but I ended up refunding it because the community was so freaking toxic that I couldn't stand it. I didn't want my money to go to that project, the things I heard in game chat were horrifying. And that was in about 1.5 hours of play.

1.5 hours.

I don't want this toxic gak anywhere near me, and that includes men or women to masquerade in the culture for profit, they are part of the problem and should be chastised in this discussion. It is unfortunate that some believe this equates to me saying they deserve what they get, or that I am buzzwording them to dismiss them. But that's also a part of life.