Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Am I the only one, who doesn't like the way more and more people are portraying Nurgle? As too loving and caring.
I always saw him more evil and sinister, like how a terrorist loves his IEDs. Or Stockholm syndrome, how a captive develops feelings for the kidnapper.
I'd like to see him as more grim dark, and not like a teddy bear who likes his faction. Thoughts??
Grandfather Nurgle has always been the Chaos power that cares, that isn't new. While you may not wish to be on the receiving end of his affections, he always gives his gifts freely and accepts new converts into the fold with open arms and genuine love.
He has more in common with his capering nurglings and jovial Great Unclean Ones than the dour plague bearers or that sad sack of a primarch, Mortarion.
I mean, you can see it from both ways. Like, he definitely infects people who don't want his "gifts" and makes them believe they love what he's done to them.
He's ALSO one of the most gracious of the Chaos Gods. His followers are one of the few who aren't arguably miserable or completely irrelevant to their patron.
Well, I'm not too fond of the newer direction of Nurgle-Daemon-Minis that are all rather humorous, even the Plaguebearers. Combined with GWs aweful Nurgle -paintjobs one doesn't really get the feeling of Nurgle being a creepy Zombiegod. But that's still in the artworks (in new ones', too) and the fluff. And if you paint the new Death Guard in proper splatter colors they're actually quite horrible in a good way, someone really got inspired by The Thing there which is still one of the best body-Horror-movies out there.
Khorne is blind rage, but also martial pride and honour (the same kind of 'honour' in 'honour killings'). He's the god of wanton, indiscriminate slaughter, and at the same time the god who will punish you for killing unarmed civilians (not because that's 'evil', but because they're not any sort of martial challenge).
Tzeentch is the hope that you can make tomorrow better than today, but also the blade that will turn in your hand and punish you for daring to think you can ever really control anything. He is the ambition to claw your way to the top of the heap, as well as the inevitability that some other bastard will stab you in the back and drag you back down as soon as you reach the summit.
Slaanesh is the pursuit of glory and perfection and universal adulation, and also the fall into decadence, dissipation and self-destruction. Pleasure and pain. Transcendence and Degradation. The passionate artist who wants to lead the world into a new age of spiritual enlightenment; and the selfish hedonist who giggles as he gulps down another glass of wine and watches the world burn around him.
Nurgle is the mortal fear of suffering and death, but also the apathy that allows mortals to endure that existential dread. He laughs in the face of sorrow and terror, because in the grand scheme of things, nothing really matters.
But none of these portrayals are new. GW have emphasised different aspects of the Chaos Gods at different times, but all those aspects have been present in the fluff since the original Realm of Chaos books in the 1980s.
A little bit of righteous anger now and then is good, actually. Don't trust a person who never gets angry.
If you haven't already, read Lords of Silence. There's no laughter or merriment among the Death Guard. Everyone on the Lords' ship is maudlin, droopy, constantly sick and always do their duties slowly. Of course, the Nurglings are happy and playful, but that's just how they are naturally, and if they push it too far, they can find themselves under the boot of a pissed off Plague Marine. Also, in the first Dark Imperium book, when a Noxious Blightbringer starts ringing his bell near the Ultramarines, most of them fall into a severe depression where they see themselves rotting away and dying forgotten, and that nothing they did ever truly mattered. No giggles there.
All of the gods have two sides, one markedly evil and destructive, while the other could be seen as positive, albeit in an often twisted fashion. Khorne is the god of slaughter, but he is also the god of strict martial honor, and he does not look favorably on those who bring him the skulls of weak, unworthy victims. Tzeentch is the god of manipulation and treachery, but also the god of hope since, as the universe is constantly changing, no structure is permanent, and those on the bottom now will sometime be able to rise to power and prominence. Slaanesh is the god of addiction and excess, but also the god of pleasure and living one's life to the fullest, aspirations that are often lost in the grimdark of the 40K universe.
When it comes to Nurgle, his joviality is related to him being the god of perpetual rebirth, that the death of one thing will help to fuel the birth and growth of another, and that nothing ever truly dies off and goes away. On the other hand, he is the god of despair, as one cannot ever truly fight entropy and that to strive to something better is pointless as ultimately, it will all decay into ash. Both sides have been shown in recent fluff, and while the joviality is outwardly promoted more, there is always a heavy layer of despair and rot hanging over everything that Nurgle and his followers do. Even the Sloppity Bilepipers, the comedians of Nurgle's daemon legion, always get to a point where no one laughs at their jokes anymore, they go insane and wither away, and their remains simply become the pipes for a new herald. And Plaguebearers often are not merry, as in the 8th edition daemon codex, it is stated that they do their duty of counting Nurgle's diseases as burdensome and that the meddling of Nurglings annoys them to no end. Nurgle may love his servants, but that love is demonstrated through plague and slow decay that eats away at men's bodies and souls. Even the mighty Death Guard ultimately lose their bulky Astartes muscles mass, probably just to become near-mindless monsters completely stripped of their last shreds of humanity, a fact that they are well aware of and deep down resent bitterly.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 06:23:13
Which is more creepy; the being that infests you with all manner of disease because it wants you to suffer, or the being that infests you with all manner of disease because it wants to help? The former is just a flavor of sadist, the latter is wholly unnatural.
Khorne is blind rage, but also martial pride and honour (the same kind of 'honour' in 'honour killings'). He's the god of wanton, indiscriminate slaughter, and at the same time the god who will punish you for killing unarmed civilians (not because that's 'evil', but because they're not any sort of martial challenge).
Tzeentch is the hope that you can make tomorrow better than today, but also the blade that will turn in your hand and punish you for daring to think you can ever really control anything. He is the ambition to claw your way to the top of the heap, as well as the inevitability that some other bastard will stab you in the back and drag you back down as soon as you reach the summit.
Slaanesh is the pursuit of glory and perfection and universal adulation, and also the fall into decadence, dissipation and self-destruction. Pleasure and pain. Transcendence and Degradation. The passionate artist who wants to lead the world into a new age of spiritual enlightenment; and the selfish hedonist who giggles as he gulps down another glass of wine and watches the world burn around him.
Nurgle is the mortal fear of suffering and death, but also the apathy that allows mortals to endure that existential dread. He laughs in the face of sorrow and terror, because in the grand scheme of things, nothing really matters.
But none of these portrayals are new. GW have emphasised different aspects of the Chaos Gods at different times, but all those aspects have been present in the fluff since the original Realm of Chaos books in the 1980s.
that is a really awsome description of the chaos gods. Though I really miss the martial honor aspect of khorne in more recent editions, where they portray him as a god who just wants indiscriminate slaughter and only punishes cowards, which is really lame compared to the older descriptions.
The jovial aspect of Nurgle has been there since the very beginning. It is a key part of his personality and adds to the worrisome nature of him. Have a look at some of the old minis on SoLegends, the disturbing grin of an individual content with life despite being ravaged with disease is present on the majority of them. It's the juxtaposition of these two things that makes it so disturbing.
Even in his daemons, which represent the cycle of life. Nurglings are infants/children and full of boundless energy and playfulness. Plaguebearers are sullen teenagers, then the cycle goes to the GUOs who are like a loving parent/grandparent.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
More to the Lords of Silence, there's also some fantastically creepy writing with the Death Guard telling their victims how much better things will be once those victims accept their 'gifts,' and thinking about how much better things have gotten since they were adrift in the Warp dying of Nurgle's Rot. Nurgle's love is both indiscriminate and somewhat abusive. He loves you and he loves the bacteria and viruses eating you, and the fungus growing between your toes, and the cute way your skin sloughs off as it rots and feeds the flies he loves so much.
Nurglitch wrote: More to the Lords of Silence, there's also some fantastically creepy writing with the Death Guard telling their victims how much better things will be once those victims accept their 'gifts,' and thinking about how much better things have gotten since they were adrift in the Warp dying of Nurgle's Rot. Nurgle's love is both indiscriminate and somewhat abusive. He loves you and he loves the bacteria and viruses eating you, and the fungus growing between your toes, and the cute way your skin sloughs off as it rots and feeds the flies he loves so much.
The one that sticks out in my mind from that is when the Biologus Putrifier character (whose name I forget) looks at a guardsmen and sees the tumour growing in his body and how he'll never get to experience the full gamut of the cancer growing inside of him as he has to kill him.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/07/10 21:14:12
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Nurglitch wrote: More to the Lords of Silence, there's also some fantastically creepy writing with the Death Guard telling their victims how much better things will be once those victims accept their 'gifts,' and thinking about how much better things have gotten since they were adrift in the Warp dying of Nurgle's Rot. Nurgle's love is both indiscriminate and somewhat abusive. He loves you and he loves the bacteria and viruses eating you, and the fungus growing between your toes, and the cute way your skin sloughs off as it rots and feeds the flies he loves so much.
The one that sticks out in my mind from that is when the Biologus Putrifier character (whose name I forget) looks at a guardsmen and sees the tumour growing in his body and how he'll never get to experience the full gamut of the cancer growing inside of him as he has to kill him.
Sylhfer wrote: Am I the only one, who doesn't like the way more and more people are portraying Nurgle? As too loving and caring.
I always saw him more evil and sinister, like how a terrorist loves his IEDs. Or Stockholm syndrome, how a captive develops feelings for the kidnapper.
I'd like to see him as more grim dark, and not like a teddy bear who likes his faction. Thoughts??
Nurgle is my favourite chaos god. Here is a list of the reasons:
- GUO looks like a blob of flesh like the gelatinous blob from 50s sci-fi.
- Standard daemon is a zombie and zombies are the best monsters to ever grace any kind of geek setting.
- Play style suits me just fine which is tanky but slow.
But there is also a lot of stuff which I don´t like:
- Stupid grins/facial expressions on a lot of units: GUO, Nurglings & Beasts of Nurgle.
- Bloated bodies should be restricted to the Plague Marines (PM) and even those shouldn´t be exaggerated. The PM from the 90s were just fine. The new ones are bad.
- I miss a more emaciated look on some models.
Yeah, this teddy bear business is associated with the grinning daemons. Both are bad.
The rictus grin has been part of Nurgle's aesthetic since day one. Seriously, go back and look at the old minis on SoLegends and how prevalent it is on them.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
Grimtuff wrote: The rictus grin has been part of Nurgle's aesthetic since day one. Seriously, go back and look at the old minis on SoLegends and how prevalent it is on them.
I own metal Nurglings which don´t grin. Vintage Beasts of Nurgle also don´t look like ass like they do now.
Grimtuff wrote: The rictus grin has been part of Nurgle's aesthetic since day one. Seriously, go back and look at the old minis on SoLegends and how prevalent it is on them.
I own metal Nurglings which don´t grin. Vintage Beasts of Nurgle also don´t look like ass like they do now.
Bruh... There is a grinning GUO on the cover of LATD. Beasts of Nurgle have been dopey feths since their original inception, only now do the models represent that fact.
White Dwarf 119 (1989) wrote:Despite its fearsome appearance and deadly attributes, the Beast is a friendly and effectionate creature behaving in all respects like an over-friendly and easily excited puppy. It craves attention, greeting newcomers by slobbering all over them with its slimy tentacles.
Then we have the Nurglings. Note the cheeky grins on many of them. Nurgling 12 is tittering to himself. Only the 3rd generation of Daemons did away with that and deviated from the established designs (which was the same for every god). The disturbing smile of being happy with what you have whilst simultaneously being a walking corpse is a key component of Nurgle's aesthetic. It's the celebration of life. Nurgle is the god of life too and his followers embrace it to its fullest.
Games Workshop Delenda Est.
Users on ignore- 53.
If you break apart my or anyone else's posts line by line I will not read them.
He doesn't want you to be happy, he wants you to embrace despair. He doesn't want to raise you up, he wants you to sink down with him. He doesn't want you to be beautiful, he wants to be so ugly you can't ever leave. He "loves" Isha, and look how he treats her.
All the gods have daemons they've punished for exceeding their bounds – the Blue Scribes, the Masque, Skarbrand, etc – but it's telling that Nurgle is the only one with a whole species that exists specifically for him to abuse. The Plague Toads are plaguebearers he devolved for displeasing him, and he squishes and pops them whenever he's pissed off, like a child stomping on, well, toads.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2019/07/18 10:18:21
He gives Isha constant gifts and involves her in his work. That's good treatment. Nurgle doesn't infect with malice, he's sharing life with you and giving what's important for you. He just happens to find disease nice...
To be fair the Blue Scribes aren't being punished for anything. They were just made for their task because they're low ranking and uncooperative.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
pm713 wrote: He gives Isha constant gifts and involves her in his work. That's good treatment. Nurgle doesn't infect with malice, he's sharing life with you and giving what's important for you. He just happens to find disease nice...
This is the exact logic that abusers use, yes. They're not hurting you, they're toughening you up. They're not controlling you, they're protecting you from bad influences. Nurgle and Isha's "relationship" is Misery-esque at best.
Nurgle is an entity of despair and degradation. He despises hope because he believes all creatures are fundamentally just as broken as he is, and are only hurting themselves and wasting time by putting up this charade of happiness and principles and dreams. He refuses to accept that hey, maybe he's just uniquely screwed up. Maybe the universe isn't a sick joke, and there's no need to laugh at it. Maybe it's just him.
pm713 wrote: He gives Isha constant gifts and involves her in his work. That's good treatment. Nurgle doesn't infect with malice, he's sharing life with you and giving what's important for you. He just happens to find disease nice...
This is the exact logic that abusers use, yes. They're not hurting you, they're toughening you up. They're not controlling you, they're protecting you from bad influences. Nurgle and Isha's "relationship" is Misery-esque at best.
Nurgle is an entity of despair and degradation. He despises hope because he believes all creatures are fundamentally just as broken as he is, and are only hurting themselves and wasting time by putting up this charade of happiness and principles and dreams. He refuses to accept that hey, maybe he's just uniquely screwed up. Maybe the universe isn't a sick joke, and there's no need to laugh at it. Maybe it's just him.
I think you're humanising Nurgle a bit too much. Nurgle doesn't ignore the idea he's the one whose screwed up, he's incapable of being anything else. A human abuser is capable of changing or understanding the idea that they're wrong. Nurgle is literally born of and made of feelings of despair so hope is incomprehensible.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
