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He'll be solving murder mysteries in Imperial Oxford and you'll all be pleased to know that the opening theme has already been finalized...



...at least it'll make a change from Midsommer Murders!

SamusDrake wrote:
He'll be solving murder mysteries in Imperial Oxford and you'll all be pleased to know that the opening theme has already been finalized...

Spoiler:

...at least it'll make a change from Midsommer Murders!

naahhhh, Rumpole would be the best Inquisitor.

I think the obvious solution is to only cast actors under five feet tall as humans, and the largest bodybuilders you can find as marines.

 Grey Templar wrote:



"It is the 41st millenium. The Imperium of Man, the mightiest empire ever seen, stretches across the galaxy. The God Emperor is interred on his Golden Throne, mortally wounded, he is kept alive only by sheer will and the unknowable technology within its gilded machinery. His immense psychic might is entirely focused on guiding the Astronomicon, a beacon without which interstellar travel would not be possible. He cannot devote attention to the minutia of ruling his empire. An empire beset upon all sides by foul aliens and traitors alike. But that is not the only threat, for the Dark Gods turn their eyes upon the mortal realm as well. Heresy spreads within the Imperium like a cancer.

It is left to Inquisitors to root out these heretics and traitors wherever they hide. They are empowered with ultimate authority. N one are above suspicion. None are beyond their reach."

You probably don't even need that much exposition in the first place. Currently Star Wars is the only franchise that pulled of that type of text blurb, and even that turned into an inside joke after a few movies.

"In the Grim Darkness of the far future, there is only War..."

Done. That's enough.

Exposition in a Tv-show is best done through visual storytelling.

Show don't Tell. And with something episodic like a tv-show, divide it across episode.

You can explain the importance of Eisenhorn's character through the environment that he's in and/or through the interactions he has with others. The concept of an inquisition is well known, so viewers will quickly realise his authoritive power by his title alone.

TBH I think the one issue that might arise from adapting Eisenhorn first is it might increase the number of people who view the Imperium as unironically "the goodies" of the setting.

They'll have to work hard to communicate to viewers new to the setting that the Imperium is a horrifying place not just because of aliens and heretics and daemons, but because it's the Imperium. The very thing that makes Eisenhorn and his gang a good way into the setting - them being relatively likeable or, at least, relatable characters - also makes it harder to see them more as protagonists than heroes.

Having the "baddies" as the protagonists isn't a new idea; after all, the Sopranos cast were all horrible thugs and that did really well. Or take GoT or HBO's Rome. Both of those had characters with a pretty alien morality (Rome started out with Vorenus having captives crucified, and had us feel sympathetic to him because his investment in the slave markets didn't work out). Showing the Imperium as an oppressive theology isn't such a huge challenge.

Hard sell for TV there - I suspect they will 'soften' that aspect of the Imperium a bit.

Dan himself does, after all...

 Yodhrin wrote:
TBH I think the one issue that might arise from adapting Eisenhorn first is it might increase the number of people who view the Imperium as unironically "the goodies" of the setting.

Why would that be a problem? The Imperium are the good guys, but by the standards of the 41st millennium and from a general human perspective, not by our 3rd millennium standards.

But the easiest way to answer someone who asks who are the good guys in 40k,



At least not for current definitions of good. In the 41st millennium, the only good is survival. The only evil is extinction. For humanity to survive, the Imperium has to be ruthless and barbaric.

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I think the obvious solution is to only cast actors under five feet tall as humans, and the largest bodybuilders you can find as marines.

Look, you.

I will not have Tom Sodding Weirdo Cruise in 40k!

 Yodhrin wrote:
TBH I think the one issue that might arise from adapting Eisenhorn first is it might increase the number of people who view the Imperium as unironically "the goodies" of the setting.

They'll have to work hard to communicate to viewers new to the setting that the Imperium is a horrifying place not just because of aliens and heretics and daemons, but because it's the Imperium. The very thing that makes Eisenhorn and his gang a good way into the setting - them being relatively likeable or, at least, relatable characters - also makes it harder to see them more as protagonists than heroes.

I'm hopeful this will change as they go through and continue to rewrite the fluff of the game. I'd much rather see the IoM toned back, made less fascist and more of a force for good in the galaxy. This show might be able to do that.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
TBH I think the one issue that might arise from adapting Eisenhorn first is it might increase the number of people who view the Imperium as unironically "the goodies" of the setting.

Why would that be a problem? The Imperium are the good guys, but by the standards of the 41st millennium and from a general human perspective, not by our 3rd millennium standards.

But the easiest way to answer someone who asks who are the good guys in 40k,



At least not for current definitions of good. In the 41st millennium, the only good is survival. The only evil is extinction. For humanity to survive, the Imperium has to be ruthless and barbaric.

Genuinely?

That could be the main hook of the series.

As hardcore Nerds (and we are), we get the joke of 40k. There is no redemption. To survive, horrific prices have to be paid.

Assuming it works, and doesn’t do a Sarah Connor Chronicles on us ( oh gods please spare us from that, especially if, like SCC it’s actually good), each season can see A Good Man fall ever further from his ideals.

Done right, there’s a hell of a lot of depth to be explored there. After all, the journey of an Inquisitor could be the visual example of ‘power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely’.

I don't really agree - that's certainly how the Imperium has come to be portrayed by a lot of authors, especially as the Studio material became a lot less ironic circa 5th Ed, but the "Imperium as necessary evil" characterisation always fell flat for me. The point is not that the Imperium is necessary, even in context, the point is that in the context humanity is so damned and so downtrodden they can't even conceive of the idea things could be better, let alone visualise how.

The Imperium is actually a terrible response to the horrors of 40K - it's monstrously inefficient, riddled with infighting, its theocratic bent keeps humanity ignorant and superstitious which can only further feed the beings of the warp, its bigotry and xenophobia lead it to miss opportunities to find allies - even if only of convenience - against the worst threats that assail it, its repression of knowledge and free thought drives potentially good and useful individuals into situations where they can be corrupted and damned when all they wanted was a bit of fun or to indulge a harmless curiosity(consider Eisenhorn's own musings about what might have been re Pontius Glaw), its nigh-worship of ignorance and fierce hatred of innovation stifles progress, etc etc etc.

The Imperium's ruthlessness and barbarity is half the reason their situation has become so dire by 40K in the first place. But that often gets put aside because evidently people will buy more Space Marines when they're heroic dudemonks rather than psychotic drugged up child soldiers stuffed into monster bodies.

 Togusa wrote:


I'm hopeful this will change as they go through and continue to rewrite the fluff of the game. I'd much rather see the IoM toned back, made less fascist and more of a force for good in the galaxy. This show might be able to do that.

I need a vomit emoticon for this.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Yodhrin wrote:
I don't really agree - that's certainly how the Imperium has come to be portrayed by a lot of authors, especially as the Studio material became a lot less ironic circa 5th Ed, but the "Imperium as necessary evil" characterisation always fell flat for me. The point is not that the Imperium is necessary, even in context, the point is that in the context humanity is so damned and so downtrodden they can't even conceive of the idea things could be better, let alone visualise how.

The Imperium is actually a terrible response to the horrors of 40K - it's monstrously inefficient, riddled with infighting, its theocratic bent keeps humanity ignorant and superstitious which can only further feed the beings of the warp, its bigotry and xenophobia lead it to miss opportunities to find allies - even if only of convenience - against the worst threats that assail it, its repression of knowledge and free thought drives potentially good and useful individuals into situations where they can be corrupted and damned when all they wanted was a bit of fun or to indulge a harmless curiosity(consider Eisenhorn's own musings about what might have been re Pontius Glaw), its nigh-worship of ignorance and fierce hatred of innovation stifles progress, etc etc etc.

The Imperium's ruthlessness and barbarity is half the reason their situation has become so dire by 40K in the first place. But that often gets put aside because evidently people will buy more Space Marines when they're heroic dudemonks rather than psychotic drugged up child soldiers stuffed into monster bodies.

Absolutely agreed.

Which is ultimately the punchline.

If Dakka’s flags can be relied upon, I suspect it may lose quite a lot in cultural translation.

But the fact that the Imperium’s utterly unthinking fascism only holds it back? That’s what I find so hilarious and poignant.

Now, I’m trying to avoid Politics here, because let’s not piss off The Mods. But take any political leaning or structure to extremes, and then stick a Jesters hat on it and push it that little bit further? You’ll end up with something as ludicrous as 40k.

That the population of The Imperium is utterly blind to that? Part of the point. That’s just the way it is. And at 10,000+ years old, it’s still, somehow the most stable civilisation in human history.

What we now know of The Great Crusade, and what we can glean of The Emperor’s overall vision? Only makes 40k even worse. It’s so far from what Big E wanted, it’s not even funny. The cruelty and barbarity were, seemingly, a necessary but short term evil. Get everyone pulling together, by hook or by crook, everyone on the same page, singing from the same hymn sheet? Things could be so much better.

Of course, that’s not even remotely close to human nature. Further adding to the hilarity of it all, to me. The Emperor, most powerful human being ever? So far removed above us mere plebs, he doesn’t really understand humanity.

Sorry. I went and wimbrelled. Yeah. Wimbrelled.

Hope this makes sense!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Addendum.

I basically grew up with 2000AD as my comic of choice. It has very similar satirical roots to 40k with a fair amount of staff cross over, and indeed inspiration cross over.

In short? 40k is, or at least was, so incredibly British, it’s subtleties, as I see them, won’t be evident to peeps that didn’t grow up in ‘Thatcher’s Britain’.

No belittling of anyone here intended.

I’d be fine with *some* changes to the Imperium. And everything. I’m kind of excited to see this. Assuming that it won’t be canon, we’ll have a second 40k continuity.

I was just thinking that GW would have significant digital assets in house that the production company can draw upon. It might save some money and allow for scenes of grandeur, massive buildings, hive spires, space traffic, etc...not including the inevitable warp/daemon stuff.

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Nope, by far the best would be Cain. Not only the comedic undertones fit the TV much better than grimdumb, Cain is far more down to earth character. With inquisitiors, you need to explain how 'magic' and other stuff works and delve into things that might make good horror show, but isn't really suited to mainstream TV. Cain, on the other hand, war movies sell well, protagonist is much more relatable (and fun), and all you need to explain about the setting is that there's evil magic and Jurgen is good at stopping it, without needing to deal with why or how. Cain also has simple supporting cast of four recurring humans, not weird freaks from inquisitorial band, that can be shown on TV in much simpler and more relatable way.

Caine would not be good. If you're dumping into a war show, you need to explain the war itself. They'd have to explain the Imperial guard, the current campaign, etc... those are much bigger concepts that need more detailed explanations. Plus Caine is not really indicative of the setting as a whole. His books are written almost as satire of the setting itself, which would be a little confusing for anybody not already familiar with the setting. Caine is a series of inside jokes. It wouldn't be funny for people who aren't in on the setting.

Um, what? What is there to explain? "We're soldiers, we're fighting monsters". There, done. You don't really need to explain orks or tyranids. Even infodumps work better, because Cain is largely ignorant about chaos, various xenos, and technology so can have (just like in the books) the issue explained to him (and by extension audience) by Zyvan/Amberley/Kasteen and have it feel natural. The issues you mention are vastly worse with Inquisitors (hell, vast majority of 40k players has no idea what is difference between a horusian and recongregationist, never mind casual viewers), the enemies they encounter, the ease of writing exposition dialogue is nonexistent (just imagine Ravenor telling Eisenhorn "as we both well know..."), all in all, unless the writers work wonders it will be really niche product appealing to tiny group, if that.

As for Cain being no good, please. I started reading him before I even got into 40K fluff at all and 95% of the jokes were perfectly understandable, because unlike Eisenhorn they are completely universal. The concept of cowardly officer being put into do or die situations all the time is not hard. He is one of the best gateway books from mainstream sci-fi to 40K. Eisenhorn on the other hand? Understanding why one magic policeman guy shoots other magic policeman guy despite both behaving and looking the same, and if the thorians are fans of marvel movies? Nope. Watching supposedly good guy using supposedly super-evil devil as sidekick? Meh. Fights using lightsaber Abnett totally didn't 'borrowed' from certain movie series? Disney lawyers come calling. Etc, etc, there are far more issues here...

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I think the obvious solution is to only cast actors under five feet tall as humans, and the largest bodybuilders you can find as marines.

Honestly in the eisenhorn series Marines barely apper. we have a single example that I can think of of an Chaos Marine, and of a loyalist marine, who end up fighting and killing each other at rhew climax of the first book. that shou;dn't be too ahrd to do. some funky camera angles etc.

 Yodhrin wrote:
psychotic drugged up child soldiers stuffed into monster bodies (...)

Which iteration of SM fluff was that again?

BrianDavion wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I think the obvious solution is to only cast actors under five feet tall as humans, and the largest bodybuilders you can find as marines.

Honestly in the eisenhorn series Marines barely apper. we have a single example that I can think of of an Chaos Marine, and of a loyalist marine, who end up fighting and killing each other at rhew climax of the first book. that shou;dn't be too ahrd to do. some funky camera angles etc.

Or CGI like all movies do with fantasy creatures. Its not hard to put an actual actor's head onto a CGI body. You can still have the actors act together. Just think of the Hobbits compared to humans in Lord of the Rings. The Minotaurs, Cantaurs, and other creatures in the Chronicles of Narnia movies. Or the giants in Game of Thrones. When filming them together in a scene, you have large scale body doubles or have the actors stand on stools to raise their heads(or stand in depressions if you need them to be shorter). Then you insert the CGI components later.

If anything, it would be pretty easy to insert marines into a scene with normal humans compared to doing the same with a more complex fantasy creature like a minotaur or somesuch. The Marine is just a suit of power armor, which is far simpler to render with CGI than something that is flesh and fur. You can use motion capture on a stunt man to get realistic movement since a marine is just a scaled up human.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Irbis wrote:

 Grey Templar wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:

Nope, by far the best would be Cain. Not only the comedic undertones fit the TV much better than grimdumb, Cain is far more down to earth character. With inquisitiors, you need to explain how 'magic' and other stuff works and delve into things that might make good horror show, but isn't really suited to mainstream TV. Cain, on the other hand, war movies sell well, protagonist is much more relatable (and fun), and all you need to explain about the setting is that there's evil magic and Jurgen is good at stopping it, without needing to deal with why or how. Cain also has simple supporting cast of four recurring humans, not weird freaks from inquisitorial band, that can be shown on TV in much simpler and more relatable way.

Caine would not be good. If you're dumping into a war show, you need to explain the war itself. They'd have to explain the Imperial guard, the current campaign, etc... those are much bigger concepts that need more detailed explanations. Plus Caine is not really indicative of the setting as a whole. His books are written almost as satire of the setting itself, which would be a little confusing for anybody not already familiar with the setting. Caine is a series of inside jokes. It wouldn't be funny for people who aren't in on the setting.

Um, what? What is there to explain? "We're soldiers, we're fighting monsters". There, done. You don't really need to explain orks or tyranids. Even infodumps work better, because Cain is largely ignorant about chaos, various xenos, and technology so can have (just like in the books) the issue explained to him (and by extension audience) by Zyvan/Amberley/Kasteen and have it feel natural. The issues you mention are vastly worse with Inquisitors (hell, vast majority of 40k players has no idea what is difference between a horusian and recongregationist, never mind casual viewers), the enemies they encounter, the ease of writing exposition dialogue is nonexistent (just imagine Ravenor telling Eisenhorn "as we both well know..."), all in all, unless the writers work wonders it will be really niche product appealing to tiny group, if that.

As for Cain being no good, please. I started reading him before I even got into 40K fluff at all and 95% of the jokes were perfectly understandable, because unlike Eisenhorn they are completely universal. The concept of cowardly officer being put into do or die situations all the time is not hard. He is one of the best gateway books from mainstream sci-fi to 40K. Eisenhorn on the other hand? Understanding why one magic policeman guy shoots other magic policeman guy despite both behaving and looking the same, and if the thorians are fans of marvel movies? Nope. Watching supposedly good guy using supposedly super-evil devil as sidekick? Meh. Fights using lightsaber Abnett totally didn't 'borrowed' from certain movie series? Disney lawyers come calling. Etc, etc, there are far more issues here...

Except with an Inquisition type story, you have less fanciful elements to deal with all at once. And the benefit of having more depth. Caine is just a sophomoric military comedy set in a sci-fi future, the depth you can get with that is limited. It'll be confusing if Caine is fighting orks in one episode and then tyranids in the next with no real explanation of "What! There are two huge existential threats in this universe? gwahhh! What are these Eldar we've not heard about before! Wait? Now they're fighting humans?

People are already reasonably familiar with the concept of an Inquisition, the idea of political machinations, etc... The series can slowly introduce the concepts of the different ideological splits within the Inquisition as the game progresses. Plus it has the benefit of involving regular people in the story line. A show where all the characters are soldiers will have issues with mass appeal because it isn't dealing with regular people. Its more specialized and its pigeonholed into certain story lines. Whereas an Inquisition series has more flexibility in what they show. They can throw in tidbits from all parts of 40k if they want to. We can have episodes where there is a backdrop of massive pitched battles while Eisenhorn and his team work in the shadows. We can see the everyday life of people in the Imperium. We can have them dealing with xeno, heretics, and daemons. Thats only if we stick to Abnett's books too. given that the books had sections with significant time jumps, we can get new stories that fill in those gaps for something different we haven't seen before.

"We're soldiers, we're fighting monsters!" is the domain of cheap saturday morning cartoons. It's not good as a introductory to 40k for a larger audience.

A Caine series might be great further down the line if and when we get more popularity. For when we need a GI Joe type series for the franchise, but right now we want a nice general appeal type of show.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:
psychotic drugged up child soldiers stuffed into monster bodies (...)

Which iteration of SM fluff was that again?

All of them, for anyone capable of reading between the lines. Or did you think someone abducted as part of a near-death experience/taken by sky-gods during gladiatorial combat as a prepubescent and then subjected to a few years of brainwashing, chemical therapy, and genetic engineering so as to end up in the body of a walking muscle-tank at around 16 would turn out a well adjusted young man?

One quote from the novels I hope gets moved fully into the tv series is "my patience isn't limitless, unlike my authority" that simple line is the type of line that becomes soooo quotable, and really does sum up the inqusiution nicely

BrianDavion wrote:
One quote from the novels I hope gets moved fully into the tv series is "my patience isn't limitless, unlike my authority" that simple line is the type of line that becomes soooo quotable, and really does sum up the inqusiution nicely

I think that this is the sort of thing that helps visually tell the concept. I can't remember if he does or not, but putting in a casual execution right at the beginning - in broad daylight with cops and people etc around starkly sets the tone.

Dredd's intro car chase shows how much force a Judge has in public spaces and its that kind of casual brutality and power that would show an ignorant viewer the kind of person and world they are dealing with.

'normalising' absolute authority from the getgo gets the buy-in early and also creates 'WTF" moments and "i can't believe they just did that!" kind of things.

You need a Dredd/red wedding vibe to get people hooked an informed at the same time.

An Inquisitor's power is real and tangible. And it's terrifying. But so is the world in which they exist.

I'm not sure how you could effectively translate 40k to live action, esp in the TV arena.. I would love them to make a proper go of it at a high level (and budget) though - godspeed to their production and set-design dept!

 MajorTom11 wrote:
I'm not sure how you could effectively translate 40k to live action, esp in the TV arena.. I would love them to make a proper go of it at a high level (and budget) though - godspeed to their production and set-design dept!

CGI is getting cheaper and cheaper as more people are learning to do it. Ideally they'll throw a lot of money at it, but even if they don't, dark scenes and bloom tend to let TV shows get away with a lot.

 Togusa wrote:
I'm hopeful this will change as they go through and continue to rewrite the fluff of the game. I'd much rather see the IoM toned back, made less fascist and more of a force for good in the galaxy. This show might be able to do that.

And rob 40K of one of the things that makes it unique? That there are no good factions, only good people within those factions (except Tyranids obviously... and the Tau ).

Is there any word on the Eisenhorn Kill Team, yet?

 Grot 6 wrote:
Is there any word on the Eisenhorn Kill Team, yet?

His rules can be found in the White Dwarf of this month.

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 NivlacSupreme wrote:
I think the obvious solution is to only cast actors under five feet tall as humans, and the largest bodybuilders you can find as marines.

Look, you.

I will not have Tom Sodding Weirdo Cruise in 40k!

Kit Harrington it is then

H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Togusa wrote:
I'm hopeful this will change as they go through and continue to rewrite the fluff of the game. I'd much rather see the IoM toned back, made less fascist and more of a force for good in the galaxy. This show might be able to do that.

And rob 40K of one of the things that makes it unique? That there are no good factions, only good people within those factions (except Tyranids obviously... and the Tau ).

Look, I’m a big Tau fan, but I wouldn’t call them “good”. Better, maybe, but not good. At least they give you an option in “Join us or die!”

Why does it have to be an established character? I would be irked if they stray from the novels. Though there are plenty of gaps in his life that can be filled. I nominate Rufus Sewell as eisenhorn