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So I recently bought a 10 man infantry squad of steel legion metal miniatures and a metal yarrick and such because I thought steel legion was the way to go. Little did I realize right after I bought them I would be reconsidering my army right away. I've been thinking of making the switch to tallarn, or vallhallen or maybe even just stay steel legion. One thing is for sure, I'm not going catachan. Forget those guys

Anyways some guy on Ebay just posted a huge amount of old metal miniatures from every single guards faction ( and I mean every single darn faction out there from mordians to vostroyans) and I'm going crazy because now is the time to decide so I can grab a few myself but the thing is I'm very indecisive and have no clue if i should make the switch to vallhallen or tallarn or keep the legion.

Maybe some of you can give me some pros and cons of each army.

Oh the struggles of a 40k player....

I like Tallarn, but my army is based on light tanks.

Steel legion has the best look. But models dont equal rules. Give them whatever rules you want. Also lots of 3rd party make the various guard regiments for a good prive without having to deal with metal.

The link is a youtube movie on Helsreach from the audiobook of the same name. I will admit that the initial animation style looked a little dodgy to me and it took a couple attempts to watch the whole thing (it's 2.5 hours long). The animation style does change through it and works very well as conveying how a space marine feels about their existence in a visual sort of way.

Anyways, it is about the third war of Armageddon following the exploits of Grimaldus, Reclusiarch of the Black Templars. There are is some stuff with the Steel Legion in there too. Well worth a watch to help your decide if you want to create a full 40k army of them if you haven't seen it already.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKMdHfOC7VQ&t=3s

 Lance845 wrote:
Steel legion has the best look. But models dont equal rules. Give them whatever rules you want. Also lots of 3rd party make the various guard regiments for a good prive without having to deal with metal.

I have to agree, you can use any of the IG infantry as any regiment you want, and there are quite a few excellent 3rd party companies for IG.

I'm personally partial to Victoria Miniatures myself.

There's little reason to buy GW anything guard-related unless you're particularly attracted to the aesthetic.

There are so many superb aftermarket resin companies. Personally I like the Vostroyan rules. Simple, effective and easy to memorize/remember.

Tsar_Vaughn_II wrote:
So I recently bought a 10 man infantry squad of steel legion metal miniatures and a metal yarrick and such because I thought steel legion was the way to go. Little did I realize right after I bought them I would be reconsidering my army right away. I've been thinking of making the switch to tallarn, or vallhallen or maybe even just stay steel legion. One thing is for sure, I'm not going catachan. Forget those guys

Anyways some guy on Ebay just posted a huge amount of old metal miniatures from every single guards faction ( and I mean every single darn faction out there from mordians to vostroyans) and I'm going crazy because now is the time to decide so I can grab a few myself but the thing is I'm very indecisive and have no clue if i should make the switch to vallhallen or tallarn or keep the legion.

Maybe some of you can give me some pros and cons of each army.

Oh the struggles of a 40k player....

Cadian:
Pros: Good on infantry and Basilisks. Only slightly worse than Catachan on TC's. Pask. Overlapping Fields of Fire
Cons: You're pretty immobile, and that's pretty bad this edition.

Catachan:
Pros: Awesome for all kinds of IG tanks. Pick this for your tank groups. Also not bad on infantry, since S4 infantry with Straken and Priest gives you infantry that can push up the board and take ground, very good this edition. Also like one of the most fun subfaction lore and character wise.
Cons: The models frequently leave much to be desired. The Punji Stick Stratagem sucks, but hopefully you have other things to spend your CP on anyway.

Valhallan:
Pros: Greatcoats & Ushankas. Your tanks also don't degrade basically until they're dead.
Cons: Strategem costs points unlike Tide of Traitors, and the whole tanks-not-degrading isn't actually that good. Maybe if you go whole-hog saturation on tanks, but then you'll be pinned in CQC. Your infantry bonus is also on the border of useless.

Vostroyan:
Pros: Pretend to be Tau! Also, +1 to hit for your Shadowsword/Baneblade/Stormlord!
Cons: You're not actually Tau, anyone you gain the ability to trade with is still better than you at midrange infantry gun duels, and your tanks don't care.

Tallarn:
Pros: Outflanking Stormlords. Outflanking Shadowswords. Outflanking Hellhammers. Jump Shoot Jump Tank Commanders.
Cons: Otherwise largely useless.

Armageddon:
Pros: +6" Rapid Fire range.
Cons: Tank bonus is basically worthless, and Vostroyans will also improve Rapid Fire range [by half as much] and come with better strategem support and improved max range.
YMMV: Gas Masks, so you can copy Krieger fashion sense. Kriegers still rock that look better than you do, though.

Mordian:
Pros: Everybody has a hat, tank overwatch as good as your normal shooting, anybody can be a sniper.
Cons: Tau are also better than you at the whole overwatch thing, and being in base to base limits your board control

Elysia:
Pros: Paratroopers, Bullpup Lasguns, weapons dropped in separate boxes due to limitations in parachute designs, A cool special order. Tauros Venators
Cons: Out of Production,
YMMV: Maximum Tacticool short of Eliminators. Your lore consists entirely of A Bridge too Far.

Krieg:
Pros: Split-trail Lascannons. WS3+. What Morale? Krak Grenade Grenadiers
Cons: 50 point infantry, Catachans are better than you at [s]everything[s/] most things.

Cadian has two other big plusses you didn't include in your list...

1) Take Aim can give full re-rolls to hit for heavy weapons. Cadian Mortars are the best mortars.

2) Relic of Lost Cadia relic. If you find yourself fighting Chaos, this thing is so good it's insane. Giving an army-wide bubble of re-roll all hits and wounds is just amazing, even if only for a turn. And given how common Chaos Soup lists are, it's a good bet you'll find a use for it eventually.

 Horst wrote:
Cadian has two other big plusses you didn't include in your list...

1) Take Aim can give full re-rolls to hit for heavy weapons. Cadian Mortars are the best mortars.

2) Relic of Lost Cadia relic. If you find yourself fighting Chaos, this thing is so good it's insane. Giving an army-wide bubble of re-roll all hits and wounds is just amazing, even if only for a turn. And given how common Chaos Soup lists are, it's a good bet you'll find a use for it eventually.

Relic of Cadia is really good. Cadian is solidly second-place to Catachan, but Chaos gets really out of hand then they could take over just to provide that countermeasure.

Oh, one other weird boundary case... Vostroyan is amazing for Punishers. If you're fielding a triple krast Crusader list, a battalion with 2 Vostroyan punishers is a pretty spicy meatball.

I'm partial to Valhallans because of the Cain series, so...

The regiments outside of Cadia/Catachan aren't bad, but you have to build for them, where as the two mentioned can be practically slotted into any list.

 Horst wrote:
Oh, one other weird boundary case... Vostroyan is amazing for Punishers. If you're fielding a triple krast Crusader list, a battalion with 2 Vostroyan punishers is a pretty spicy meatball.

I'd said Vostroya is solidly 3rd. The stratagem is ideal for the Baneblades and more flexible than Overlapping Fields of Fire, and that alone makes it worth bringing if you want it. The +6" range is awkward, since for the most part you either don't care or the weapon in question is weak enough it doesn't feel super useful, Punishers are definitely an option though, but with no relevant buffs to the really important units, it's definitely a boundary case.

Tallarn and Vostroya are both really in consideration only for their stratagems.

The tallarn rules are not useless, they have fire and fade order making them arguably the best if you play around that (saw them play excelent on LVO). Also their rules are focoused on mobility, wich is in stark contrast to the the cadia rules.

That said i'd say stick with steel legion. All guard armies are strong even if they would play without regimental bonus, and the steel legion models are fantastic. I painted a squad for fun this weekend

I'd pick whichever models you like the best & buy those.

Of the 3 you've listed the SL are my favorite sculpts.

Gitdakka wrote:
The tallarn rules are not useless, they have fire and fade order making them arguably the best if you play around that (saw them play excelent on LVO). Also their rules are focoused on mobility, wich is in stark contrast to the the cadia rules.

That said i'd say stick with steel legion. All guard armies are strong even if they would play without regimental bonus, and the steel legion models are fantastic. I painted a squad for fun this weekend

You have a point. Get Around Them is a very versatile option.

I feel like their rules are unnecessarily focused on mobility, because the Guard have good mobility as is; with the exception of Cadian, and I feel like the Catachan melee threat plus the heavier firepower from long range units is worth a little more. There is an argument there, though, because the Tallarnians have a really good incarnation of the advance-and-shoot ability that basically comes with no drawbacks. In addition, Vindicares really threaten the buff network that makes Catachan infantry really good, so the Tallarn ability to get up and get that double-tap is pretty good. I might revise my ranking and place them above Cadia, though they still might be on the end of situational and I'm not sure about that since their tank support options are kind of poor.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Tallarn:
Pros: Outflanking Stormlords. Outflanking Shadowswords. Outflanking Hellhammers.
Cons: Otherwise largely useless.

Lies and heresy. JSJ tank commanders are amazing.

I play Vostroyan Infantry almost exclusively. Why?

1) You shoot further than most
2) You shoot twice while still further than most do
3) If you are told to feel pride, your plasma stops exploding
4) If your Executioner tank commander feels pride, he begins using his pseudonym 'Wizard Allgone'
5) If you get into close combat, your troops are not afraid to throw grenades under their feet
6) If you are out of grenades, your troops shove their lasguns into the mouths of their enemies and empty their power packs down their throats
7) They are the second manliest regiment, right after Catachans
8) Your commander can be a though as a Terminator Space Marine
9) You don't need to be a Terminator, if you have the Laurels of Command and make your manly guardsmen shoot even better at ranges many others can't even harm you.
10) Wooden & gold-plated lasguns > dull plastic pew-things

Hey thanks alot everyone! After all this I may just stick with steel legion because they look cool and yarrick Is one nasty old man. I feel it is useless though to field a tank like a baneblade in a steel legion list. Maybe I am wrong. If I do switch I will go tallarn because of the tanks but I'll have to think about it.

But anyways, thanks for all the info on the other regiments!

Guard have struggles? I never noticed anything particularly bad whenever I play against them.

 chimeara wrote:
Guard have struggles?

When your an indecisive person like myself you find theres so many regiments to choose from


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Tsar_Vaughn_II wrote:
So I recently bought a 10 man infantry squad of steel legion metal miniatures and a metal yarrick and such because I thought steel legion was the way to go. Little did I realize right after I bought them I would be reconsidering my army right away. I've been thinking of making the switch to tallarn, or vallhallen or maybe even just stay steel legion. One thing is for sure, I'm not going catachan. Forget those guys

Anyways some guy on Ebay just posted a huge amount of old metal miniatures from every single guards faction ( and I mean every single darn faction out there from mordians to vostroyans) and I'm going crazy because now is the time to decide so I can grab a few myself but the thing is I'm very indecisive and have no clue if i should make the switch to vallhallen or tallarn or keep the legion.

Maybe some of you can give me some pros and cons of each army.

Oh the struggles of a 40k player....

Cadian:
Pros: Good on infantry and Basilisks. Only slightly worse than Catachan on TC's. Pask. Overlapping Fields of Fire
Cons: You're pretty immobile, and that's pretty bad this edition.

Catachan:
Pros: Awesome for all kinds of IG tanks. Pick this for your tank groups. Also not bad on infantry, since S4 infantry with Straken and Priest gives you infantry that can push up the board and take ground, very good this edition. Also like one of the most fun subfaction lore and character wise.
Cons: The models frequently leave much to be desired. The Punji Stick Stratagem sucks, but hopefully you have other things to spend your CP on anyway.

Valhallan:
Pros: Greatcoats & Ushankas. Your tanks also don't degrade basically until they're dead.
Cons: Strategem costs points unlike Tide of Traitors, and the whole tanks-not-degrading isn't actually that good. Maybe if you go whole-hog saturation on tanks, but then you'll be pinned in CQC. Your infantry bonus is also on the border of useless.

Vostroyan:
Pros: Pretend to be Tau! Also, +1 to hit for your Shadowsword/Baneblade/Stormlord!
Cons: You're not actually Tau, anyone you gain the ability to trade with is still better than you at midrange infantry gun duels, and your tanks don't care.

Tallarn:
Pros: Outflanking Stormlords. Outflanking Shadowswords. Outflanking Hellhammers.
Cons: Otherwise largely useless.

Armageddon:
Pros: +6" Rapid Fire range.
Cons: Tank bonus is basically worthless, and Vostroyans will also improve Rapid Fire range [by half as much] and come with better strategem support and improved max range.
YMMV: Gas Masks, so you can copy Krieger fashion sense. Kriegers still rock that look better than you do, though.

Elysia:
Pros: Paratroopers, Bullpup Lasguns, weapons dropped in separate boxes due to limitations in parachute designs, A cool special order. Tauros Venators
Cons: Out of Production,
YMMV: Maximum Tacticool short of Eliminators. Your lore consists entirely of A Bridge too Far.

Krieg:
Pros: Split-trail Lascannons. WS3+
Cons: Catachans are better than you at everything.

Thank you! Catachan actaully seems like it plays really well

The biggest struggle we have and of which I'm aware of is rolling that many dice at once.

 Hawky wrote:
The biggest struggle we have and of which I'm aware of is rolling that many dice at once.

That checks out.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Valhallan:
Pros: Greatcoats & Ushankas. Your tanks also don't degrade basically until they're dead.
Cons: Strategem costs points unlike Tide of Traitors, and the whole tanks-not-degrading isn't actually that good. Maybe if you go whole-hog saturation on tanks, but then you'll be pinned in CQC. Your infantry bonus is also on the border of useless.

I initially dismissed Valhallans as weak, but after trying them out a few times I've changed my mind. The infantry bonus isn't all that useful (saves a morale casualty here and there), but the order to fire into melee is exactly what you need to mitigate your tanks getting pinned in close combat. Enemy throws a chaff unit at a Leman Russ? No big deal, degrease it with massed lasgun fire. And having vehicles remain at full effectiveness until they reach 1/4 of their wounds remaining means they remain threatening even after taking heavy damage.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Krieg:
Pros: Split-trail Lascannons. WS3+
Cons: Catachans are better than you at everything.

Ignoring morale from shooting is a lot more useful than it sounds on paper, and forces the opponent to regularly overkill units since they can't rely on morale to take out the last couple. Krieg also have access to Engineers and Death Riders, which are both excellent. They also get Watchmasters with BS3+ on every squad, and optional free hot-shot lasguns. Krak grenades on every man makes for a nasty surprise with the Grenadiers stratagem.

I do run my artillery as Catachan, though, because the Krieg 'doctrine' provides no benefit to vehicles.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Tallarn:
Pros: Outflanking Stormlords. Outflanking Shadowswords. Outflanking Hellhammers.
Cons: Otherwise largely useless.

I'll admit that I'm not a tournament player but I've had fun with infantry-Tallarn.

Having guardsmen with basically the same mobility as Eldar infantry can be really useful. And having vehicles that can move and shoot without penalty is very nice.

Tsar_Vaughn_II wrote:[
Thank you! Catachan actaully seems like it plays really well

Catachans are really strong. I use it [though only about 20 or so of my earliest Guardsmen are Catachan] because the vehicle ability is really strong and I like to use my rifles in close quarters combat when I can, so the Straken-Priest buff and the +1S can go the distance. [To be fair, I also use Bloody Rose for my Sisters, which is a similiar effect, because I like being aggressive and close-combat-happy this edition]

catbarf wrote:

I initially dismissed Valhallans as weak, but after trying them out a few times I've changed my mind. The infantry bonus isn't all that useful (saves a morale casualty here and there), but the order to fire into melee is exactly what you need to mitigate your tanks getting pinned in close combat. Enemy throws a chaff unit at a Leman Russ? No big deal, degrease it with massed lasgun fire. And having vehicles remain at full effectiveness until they reach 1/4 of their wounds remaining means they remain threatening even after taking heavy damage.

Ignoring morale from shooting is a lot more useful than it sounds on paper, and forces the opponent to regularly overkill units since they can't rely on morale to take out the last couple. Krieg also have access to Engineers and Death Riders, which are both excellent. They also get Watchmasters with BS3+ on every squad, and optional free hot-shot lasguns. Krak grenades on every man makes for a nasty surprise with the Grenadiers stratagem.

I do run my artillery as Catachan, though, because the Krieg 'doctrine' provides no benefit to vehicles.

You're right, I forgot Cult of Sacrifice. I mostly see Krieg as the melee assault guard faction, and to be fair +1WS is more broadly applicable while +1S is situationally useful.


Also, that's an interesting take on Valhallan. I usually [and usually see] tanks screened with infantry, so infantry firing on infantry seemed more useless to me when Get Back In the Fight was an option, but tanks screening for infantry using their somewhat-better-than-average damage resistance and then having anything that makes melee with them shot off sounds like it might be an edge case you could build into.

Catachan player here:

If you are not doing jungle fighters then you are wasting money. So have fun throwing your hard-earned cash out of the window.

My personal favorite is Valhallans. They get the best infantry order, especially combined with their doctrine. Being able to fire into combat as guard is just so handy. So many people think they're clever by consolidating into a squad or tri locking something. Valhallans can just laugh at that, either by killing the enemy unit in combat with you by shooting it or by rolling lots of ones and freeing yourself by killing the offending guardsmen in question And of course you can clean a tank off and let it fire even though it was charged, that's a great trick.

Sure they're not as powerful as Cadian or Catachan, but I think they have the best shot of surviving a melee list with their tanks. Between "fire on command" and their ability to just keep fighting on the top table, they're tough to shut down. Vigilus goes a long way to improving their firepower which helps close the gap a bit too. Which I like, Valhallans require a lot of thought and have some very rewarding tricks when played correctly. They let you play the most "thematic" guard army in my opinion, you absolutely just grind down the opponent. And when the opponent gets in combat you do the honorable thing and just gun him down in the open. And their tank ability absolutely comes up if you bring enough tanks, especially some Hellhounds. Slam the Hellhounds up the table and the opponent either kills the Hellhounds to protect his stuff or tries to finish Russe's in the backline. But a Russ is fighting at full on 4, and a Hellhound on 3.

Their only real issue is none of their abilities are inherently geared to offensive play. And for a true tournament list you need abilities that are always on or when you want them on, not reactive. The only reason I'm using them in serious games is because ITC rewards going second quite a bit and I wanted a guard army that could take a punch. That said while the morale and damage table help you keep fighting, they're not as aggressive as Catachan can be for example. I'd say they're a solid third place for me. Vostroyans can be splashed in but make a lousy full army, steel legion has good infantry trait but kind of uninspired tank trait, mordians are fun but again are defensive, and stormtroopers (whichever way you feel it can be taken) just aren't providing enough benefit to be a full army.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
You're right, I forgot Cult of Sacrifice. I mostly see Krieg as the melee assault guard faction, and to be fair +1WS is more broadly applicable while +1S is situationally useful.

Yeah, if you look at them as melee Guard, you're going to be underwhelmed. Melee with Krieg is a trap. Yes, they're WS3+, and yes, you can bring along banners to get extra attacks, but they're still S3 and die in droves in melee, and Cult of Sacrifice provides no benefit in CC. Catachans are objectively better at it.

They're not that great at shooting, either, since they lack FRFSRF, although having a BS3+ Watchmaster with a Hot-Shot Lasgun does go some way to closing the gap.

What their infantry are actually good for is holding the line while the rest of the army does its work. Without Mercy is equivalent to FRFSRF at over 12", and if the enemy gets in close they can spam krak grenades. But it's mostly that their ability to completely ignore morale damage makes them excellent screens, since they just do not run. I find that my opponents regularly have to allocate excessive amounts of firepower, otherwise the last survivor (a plasma gunner, of course) is going to stalwartly stay in position and continue to block their charges/DS.

They're just very different from normal Guard. They don't use their infantry to win battles the way regular Guard do, they use them to screen for specialist units that can provide the killing power instead. If anything I'd say they're closest to Valhallans, just on account of morale resistance and using infantry as sacrificial units.

Just my $0.02.

One thing to consider is that it is fluff-friendly to have multiple regiments working together.

 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Spoiler:

Tsar_Vaughn_II wrote:
So I recently bought a 10 man infantry squad of steel legion metal miniatures and a metal yarrick and such because I thought steel legion was the way to go. Little did I realize right after I bought them I would be reconsidering my army right away. I've been thinking of making the switch to tallarn, or vallhallen or maybe even just stay steel legion. One thing is for sure, I'm not going catachan. Forget those guys

Anyways some guy on Ebay just posted a huge amount of old metal miniatures from every single guards faction ( and I mean every single darn faction out there from mordians to vostroyans) and I'm going crazy because now is the time to decide so I can grab a few myself but the thing is I'm very indecisive and have no clue if i should make the switch to vallhallen or tallarn or keep the legion.

Maybe some of you can give me some pros and cons of each army.

Oh the struggles of a 40k player....

Cadian:
Pros: Good on infantry and Basilisks. Only slightly worse than Catachan on TC's. Pask. Overlapping Fields of Fire
Cons: You're pretty immobile, and that's pretty bad this edition.

Catachan:
Pros: Awesome for all kinds of IG tanks. Pick this for your tank groups. Also not bad on infantry, since S4 infantry with Straken and Priest gives you infantry that can push up the board and take ground, very good this edition. Also like one of the most fun subfaction lore and character wise.
Cons: The models frequently leave much to be desired. The Punji Stick Stratagem sucks, but hopefully you have other things to spend your CP on anyway.

Valhallan:
Pros: Greatcoats & Ushankas. Your tanks also don't degrade basically until they're dead.
Cons: Strategem costs points unlike Tide of Traitors, and the whole tanks-not-degrading isn't actually that good. Maybe if you go whole-hog saturation on tanks, but then you'll be pinned in CQC. Your infantry bonus is also on the border of useless.

Vostroyan:
Pros: Pretend to be Tau! Also, +1 to hit for your Shadowsword/Baneblade/Stormlord!
Cons: You're not actually Tau, anyone you gain the ability to trade with is still better than you at midrange infantry gun duels, and your tanks don't care.

Tallarn:
Pros: Outflanking Stormlords. Outflanking Shadowswords. Outflanking Hellhammers. Jump Shoot Jump Tank Commanders.
Cons: Otherwise largely useless.

Armageddon:
Pros: +6" Rapid Fire range.
Cons: Tank bonus is basically worthless, and Vostroyans will also improve Rapid Fire range [by half as much] and come with better strategem support and improved max range.
YMMV: Gas Masks, so you can copy Krieger fashion sense. Kriegers still rock that look better than you do, though.

Elysia:
Pros: Paratroopers, Bullpup Lasguns, weapons dropped in separate boxes due to limitations in parachute designs, A cool special order. Tauros Venators
Cons: Out of Production,
YMMV: Maximum Tacticool short of Eliminators. Your lore consists entirely of A Bridge too Far.

Krieg:
Pros: Split-trail Lascannons. WS3+. What Morale? Krak Grenade Grenadiers
Cons: 50 point infantry, Catachans are better than you at [s]everything[s/] most things.

Nice breakdown of the different Regiments, but you forgot Mordians.