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2020/04/19 10:28:59
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
To expand upon this slightly, GSC had more or less disappeared from tournament showings for the first couple months of the year due to a combination of factors (many popular list builds took a hit from Chapter Approved 2019, several top placing players jumped ship to Iron Hands, and a relatively hostile meta). We don't have much data for performance after the Greater Good was released since the pandemic ended tournament play, but the lists mentioned appeared to be pulling out some wins. To some extent this makes sense, as the Greater Good mostly added tools for shooting rather than melee.
For what limited value it is worth, my best performing lists currently have been ones that have leveraged the army's Fast Attack (Jackals and Ridgerunners) for board control/fire support and Acolytes/Metamorphs for critical threat removal.
2020/04/19 16:43:07
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Just curious, is there one generally acknowledged type of "Tyranid shooting support" used, or does it vary a lot between players?
I guess a boatload of Termagaunts, what else? What adaptions are usually chosen, how big is the detachments, any MVP, tricks, synergies, shenannigans of note?
Why and how are they better in their role than native GSC options?
AuntHerbert wrote: Just curious, is there one generally acknowledged type of "Tyranid shooting support" used, or does it vary a lot between players?
I guess a boatload of Termagaunts, what else? What adaptions are usually chosen, how big is the detachments, any MVP, tricks, synergies, shenannigans of note?
Why and how are they better in their role than native GSC options?
Exocrines and Hive Guard. Termagants are not good for shooting purposes.
The chosen adaptations are always Kronos in their case, in a 2x Neurothropes and 3x Ripper Swarms detachments.
2020/04/21 15:39:16
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The tyranid shooting units are hive guards impaler cannons and exoshrines. One has shoot x2 stratagem. Other has slimer maggots.
For anfantery everybody run flying tyrants with slimer maggots. Some people run carnifexes as well.
Those are the standar once. Here are some non standar. Still good but nieche, or just less popular.
Every one run impaler cannons. But the tesla weapons actually came out best for expected damage. Try them out.
Tyranofex with rupture cannon is better vs T8 then others.
Heavy venom cannon is good after the drop in price. Put them on tyrants or carnifexes. 36 range means possitoningbis less important, so yiu can stil huntvinfantery with the slimer weapons.
Tyranofex with the flamer is good. Very good vs planes. Very good with cheap screens, meaning enemies staybput within 18".
Gaunts with the 3 attack gun out of a tunnel with shoot x2 stratgem is 180 S4 shots. Very impresive.
If you do pick warriors venom cannon is OK. But very unreliable. (Also look in blood of ball for the MSU reroll trait: Synaptic Augmentation. Good for small units of venom and heavy venom cannons.)
To a different topic: How do people like their ridge runners? I am trying to compare it to the lascannon heavy weapon platform. They come out at 80 points for 3 shots. The ridgerunner comes out at 60 with d3 shots. (2 on averadge.) Does that make the ridgerunner viable? Or are we just paying to much?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/21 15:41:23
Niiai wrote: The tyranid shooting units are hive guards impaler cannons and exoshrines. One has shoot x2 stratagem. Other has slimer maggots.
For anfantery everybody run flying tyrants with slimer maggots. Some people run carnifexes as well.
Those are the standar once. Here are some non standar. Still good but nieche, or just less popular.
Every one run impaler cannons. But the tesla weapons actually came out best for expected damage. Try them out.
Tyranofex with rupture cannon is better vs T8 then others.
Heavy venom cannon is good after the drop in price. Put them on tyrants or carnifexes. 36 range means possitoningbis less important, so yiu can stil huntvinfantery with the slimer weapons.
Tyranofex with the flamer is good. Very good vs planes. Very good with cheap screens, meaning enemies staybput within 18".
Gaunts with the 3 attack gun out of a tunnel with shoot x2 stratgem is 180 S4 shots. Very impresive.
If you do pick warriors venom cannon is OK. But very unreliable. (Also look in blood of ball for the MSU reroll trait: Synaptic Augmentation. Good for small units of venom and heavy venom cannons.)
To a different topic: How do people like their ridge runners? I am trying to compare it to the lascannon heavy weapon platform. They come out at 80 points for 3 shots. The ridgerunner comes out at 60 with d3 shots. (2 on averadge.) Does that make the ridgerunner viable? Or are we just paying to much?
Ridgerunner 100% comes on top for everything:
Better mobility
Better accuracy with Stratagems, Warlord Traits and Auras sinergies
Better price
Better durability
Lascannon Heavy Weapons are outclassed in every aspect even if they had all AM synergies (Which they do not)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/21 17:04:24
2020/04/21 19:10:00
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Niiai wrote: What are the stratagems, warlordtraits and auras? I am a bit behind on my GSC these days.
Hit roll modification:
- Jack Alphus "Priority Target Sighted" aura
- Chilling Efficiency (Hivecult signature stratagem)
- Hivelord (Hivecult warlord trait)
- Vengeance for the Martyred (Pauper Princes signature stratagem)
- Racking Fire (Greater Good - Heavy Stubbers only)
Wound roll modification:
- Primus' Meticulous Planner aura
- Single-Minded Obsession (Bladed Cog warlord trait)
- Overcharged Weaponry (Greater Good - Heavy Mining Laser only)
- Racking Fire (Greater Good - Heavy Stubbers only)
Misc.
- Undying Vigor (Bladed Cog signature psychic power)
- Sensor Decoys (extra ambush markers - Ridgerunners are VERY efficient users of ambush when taken as a squadron)
- Meticulous Uprising (moving ambush markers - same reasoning as above)
- Nexos redeploy (see above)
- Inescapable Decay (Rusted Claw signature psychic power - technically applies to Brood Brothers weapon teams as well but worth noting)
- Flare Launchers interaction with GSC bikes.
I suppose it is also worth noting, the Twin Heavy Stubbers aren't too bad to have either for chaff clearing. They have good range and you can buff them considerably as well.
2020/04/21 21:46:20
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
But many of these apply to the heavy weapon team as well. I do not care about the stubbers, I only want the anti tank.
Overcharged weaponary is ridgerunner spesefic. I suppose meticalus uprising is better once you reach 2 ridgerunners. Most of the others can be applied to heavy weapon teams as well. But there are some good ideas in there. (Might push it far ahead of carnifexes and walking hive tyrants with heavy venom cannons.)
The only ones that work for Brood Brothers are the ambush manipulation ones and the Rusted Claw psychic power. The rest are all keyed off the <Cult> keyword which makes Brood Brothers ineligible recipients. Ridgerunners are <Cult> units, so they do benefit.
Why and how are they better in their role than native GSC options?
The two biggest factors for the ones mentioned earlier are an innate BS 3+ and the platforms are relatively more durable than their GSC counterparts.
GSC fire support tends to rely upon force multipliers and numbers to make it scary. Hivecult Ridgerunners for instance can be boosted to hitting on a 2+ (potentially rerolling 1s) and wounding most targets on a 2+ (also potentially rerolling 1s) with the assistance of a Jackal Alphus, a Primus, Chilling Efficiency, and Overcharged Weapons. The result is terrifying, but it has a lot of moving parts to get there. The Tyranid guns in comparison are more or less self-contained.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/04/21 23:28:48
2020/04/22 15:14:27
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
I have come across a spare GSC neophyte spruce. I currently have four squads armed identical: 2 mining lasers, 2 webbers, leader with autogun and chainsword.
My question is what should I be arming the 5th 10 man squad as. I feel 10 identical squads might be to many for diversatys sake. Perhaps give them grenade launchers instead of webbers? On the other hand they are a very versatile group that can do plenty.
Usualy i use them in a combined GSC and nids army, so I use 33 point ripper swarm as objective grabbers. Also my fancy deoployment stratagems as usually used elsewhere, so a fancy shotgunsquad might not be what I am looking for. I usualy run them in bladed caugh. Suggestions are welcome.
For your purposes and creed selection the Mining Laser/Webber squad is probably the most optimal configuration. As much as I would like to argue alternatives, the other Neophyte load-outs are more or less entirely anti-infantry oriented and that isn't really something Tyranids are generally hurting for in their troop selections compared to anti-armor.
Also as an aside, I have generally found that when running GSC alongside Tyranids it is generally a good idea to shy away from the Tyranid units that rely upon deepstrike unless you just need the slot filled cheaply (such as Rippers for troops, Lictors for Elites). For the most part GSC deepstrike is going to be a more effective use of your reserve slots in a combined army since they bring more damage potential and can redeploy via Return to Shadows if required later on. Mawlocs are another exception, since they can burrow to avoid eating a reserve slot and they are a rather nifty helper for GSC units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/04/29 01:43:47
2020/04/29 13:21:11
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Niiai wrote: I My question is what should I be arming the 5th 10 man squad as.......Suggestions are welcome.
Lol. If you exclude 90% of the options, there isn't much left to suggest. Let's see, no shotguns,no additional pips, melee isn't a real option, Mining Laser/Grenade Launcher and Mining Laser/Webber have already been discussed, Flamer only makes sense with shotguns...
So, it's down to decide between Heavy Stubber and Seismic Cannon. Both are anti-infantry options, and the Seismic Cannon is slightly better at the job, but probably not 10 pts worth of better.
Snip, snap, I HAVE A SUGGESTION! How about you arm that squad with a Heavy Stubber and a Webber!
Edit, hmm I didn't see that 6s to wound improve the AP to -4.
I CHANGE MY SUGGESTON: How about you arm em with a Seismic Cannon and a Webber! He can have a pink helmet and a cut-off with a slaanesh symbol and pretend to be a Nose Marine!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/29 13:32:54
Niiai wrote: Well your sarcasemn aside, how would you want to arm your 10 man squads then? I am upen to all suggestions.
10 Men units with Webbers/Grenade Launchers and Mining LAZORs, there isn't any other equip that functions well with them (Shotgun + Flamer is just memeish) since the alternatives aren't many to begin with and half of them are not well priced at all
2020/04/29 20:47:06
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Well, mostly with Mining Laser and Grenade Laucher, sure, because it's the sensible all purpose option. But as you said, you got so many of them, that you don't need anymore.
So, let me pull some fancier alternatives out of an undisclosed location:
Patriarch escort
If I wanted mostly a screen against Sniper fire to hop in front of my Patriarch, (unquestioning Loyalty) I might actually consider shotguns and a pair of flamers, just to make it a tiny bit more painful if someone tries to charge them and mop them up in melee to clear the line of fire. Also as a bit of a fastmoving castle against fast melee opponents/deep strike charges.
In that case, assuming I got the spare points, I would even consider adding a heavy stubber and even a power maul.
Long range firepower and expensive heavy weapons make no sense for a Patriarch escort, as they will do most of their shooting on the run or in overwatch, and the game plan for the Patriarch is to beeline towards some tasty meatbags, not to sit around a sniper's nest. On the last yards, the escort can remove a bit of enemy bubblewrap units, to make sure the Patriarch can get through to the meaty parts.
20 men blobs OTOH do make sense. They can carry less equipment per model, but it also takes considerably more effort to wipe the unit in one go. Icon is a maybe.
Bladed Cog is naturally quite good at running escort for a Patriarch..
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/04/29 20:54:19
AuntHerbert wrote: Well, mostly with Mining Laser and Grenade Laucher, sure, because it's the sensible all purpose option. But as you said, you got so many of them, that you don't need anymore.
So, let me pull some fancier alternatives out of an undisclosed location:
Patriarch escort
If I wanted mostly a screen against Sniper fire to hop in front of my Patriarch, (unquestioning Loyalty) I might actually consider shotguns and a pair of flamers, just to make it a tiny bit more painful if someone tries to charge them and mop them up in melee to clear the line of fire. Also as a bit of a fastmoving castle against fast melee opponents/deep strike charges.
In that case, assuming I got the spare points, I would even consider adding a heavy stubber and even a power maul.
Long range firepower and expensive heavy weapons make no sense for a Patriarch escort, as they will do most of their shooting on the run or in overwatch, and the game plan for the Patriarch is to beeline towards some tasty meatbags, not to sit around a sniper's nest. On the last yards, the escort can remove a bit of enemy bubblewrap units, to make sure the Patriarch can get through to the meaty parts.
20 men blobs OTOH do make sense. They can carry less equipment per model, but it also takes considerably more effort to wipe the unit in one go. Icon is a maybe.
Bladed Cog is naturally quite good at running escort for a Patriarch..
At that point Brood Brothers are 100% better for Unquestioning Loyalty purposes since they are 4ppm (cheapest source of wounds per cost).
2020/04/29 22:29:39
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The main drawback for the Telepathic Summons stratagem is, that it is ultimately cheesy pay to win.
If you field 2 or 3 Psykers, put 125 points in reserve, and keep 4 CP around, sell your firstborn son into slavery to buy one more of every HQ character, 2 more of every Elite characters, and enough infantry and bikers to field every possible unit in every possible wargear combo up to 125 points twice, and rent a truck to drive your collection to the game, then you will never ever have to fight with the thought "Darn, Now I wish I had brought that unit/model to counter whatever my opponent plans".
The "good" thing: You don't need Aberrants, as their cheapest unit costs 140 points. As for.Atalans, you only need, 2 Leaders and 11 Jackals, fully magnetized, plus 1 magnetized Quad, as there is no way to cram more than that in 125 points.
As for Neophyte Hybrid options: Ideally 19 with autoguns, 19 with shotguns, 4 of every special weapon,, 1 of every heavy weapon and a leaders for every type of melee weapons or two magnetized leaders.
Usually, they won't be the first choice to summon, but if you didn't need, say, a Patriarch in the first summon, but only, say a Kelermorph, you will have points left in the summoning pool, and you can summon these guys in the next turn to clear the pool.
At that point Brood Brothers are 100% better for Unquestioning Loyalty purposes since they are 4ppm (cheapest source of wounds per cost).
Yeah, you are wrong.
2 Reasons.
First: The question was not "What is the next unit I should buy" but "What should I do with that last unit of Neophytes, I already got such a stack of Hybrids all set up exactly the same"
Second:. Brood Brothers don't get the 6++ from Bladed Cog, and can't benefit from Cult Reinforcement stratagem. So on average you get 1/6 more bodies. You pay 80 points for 20 Broodbrother bodies, and 100 points for 23,3 Neophytes. Better chances to keep the unit with its equipment in game to refill it with CP for only a very modest price increase.
Are Brood Brothers often better? Sure. 100%, so, in every case? Definitely nope.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2020/04/29 23:10:09
A question that I've not found a firm answer too in my limited searching. I know that Genstealers can take both several specific Imperial Guard units within the cult and also ally in basically all the Imperial Guard units they want (though without all the benefits of either army and restricted to one detachment per cultist detachment).
However I've also come across references of using other Imperial forces, namely Adepticus Mechanicus. Is this purely a "lore/conversions/counts-as" thing or can they specifically take them as an allied force?
I believe that it is only models with the Astra Militarum keyword - which does include some AdMech key-worded models as well (Techpriests and servitors), but no wholesale allying in... sadly.
2020/05/06 20:41:01
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
hangnailnz wrote: I believe that it is only models with the Astra Militarum keyword - which does include some AdMech key-worded models as well (Techpriests and servitors), but no wholesale allying in... sadly.
Ahh that's a shame.
So general followup question how good are Atalan Jackals and do they work well in larger groups/more groups or are they more of a niche thing?
And do you think these will look good instead of bikes?
Yeah, they could work as count as bikers. Although I suspect bikes move a lot faster then a horse. And hence it would be a bit odd. But it could work.
If they are cheaper then bikes that is a good reason. But I really enjoy the dirt bikes. The dirt bikes really matches the high cordinated but budget oriented GSC cult moving in the unseen and doing sabotage qork to slowly overtake the world.
Both are great models though. The new mecanicus range is great. I really love the Frank Herbert ornitopthers.
(Perhaps you could stick a magis in the cockpit and do a cpunt as flying hive tyrant?)
Overread wrote:A question that I've not found a firm answer too in my limited searching. I know that Genstealers can take both several specific Imperial Guard units within the cult and also ally in basically all the Imperial Guard units they want (though without all the benefits of either army and restricted to one detachment per cultist detachment).
However I've also come across references of using other Imperial forces, namely Adepticus Mechanicus. Is this purely a "lore/conversions/counts-as" thing or can they specifically take them as an allied force?
The Brood Brothers rule only allows for detachments of Astra Militarium unfortunately. Most of the GSC/Admech combinations floating around are conversions for the Bladed Cog cult, as it originated on a Mechanicus-controlled world and its members are described as having extensive cybernetics. The GSC and Admech ranges are fairly compatible with each other, so it isn't to hard to mix and match to make cyborg hybrids.
Overread wrote:
So general followup question how good are Atalan Jackals and do they work well in larger groups/more groups or are they more of a niche thing?
My experience has generally been that Jackals are very good at board control and are reasonably effective at eliminating screening units. With the tools available to the Rusted Claw creed they can also fill an anti-armor role as well, though for the most part they will want to prioritize targeting light infantry.
I personally prefer larger units for the expanded footprint for board control and it makes them more efficient recipients of various buffs (Close Range Shootout and Flare Launchers being the most noteworthy).
Overread wrote:
And do you think these will look good instead of bikes?
Those look like they are on the same size base, so I don't see any reason why those wouldn't work. Admittedly, I would not be surprised if the Atalan Jackals kit ends up being a bit cheaper in the end since they don't have to accommodate parts for an alternate build (just different weapons).
2020/05/16 22:57:42
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
Can I get some feedback on this 1000 point list? I'm new to GSC and will be doing practice matches on Tabletop simulator. My local meta is mostly gunline armies in Mechanicus, IG and Deathwatch.
Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts] ++
The general plan is to clear chaff with the Ridgerunners and Neophytes, then DS the Abberants, Acolytes and Iconoward over turns 2 and 3. I'm not committed to any of these units, so the sky's the limit in changing things around.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/05/16 23:07:04
2020/05/16 23:52:29
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
BlaxicanX wrote: Can I get some feedback on this 1000 point list? I'm new to GSC and will be doing practice matches on Tabletop simulator. My local meta is mostly gunline armies in Mechanicus, IG and Deathwatch.
Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
Achilles Ridgerunners [4 PL, 59pts] . Achilles Ridgerunner: Flare Launcher, Heavy Mining Laser, 2x Heavy Stubber
++ Total: [60 PL, 998pts] ++
The general plan is to clear chaff with the Ridgerunners and Neophytes, then DS the Abberants, Acolytes and Iconoward over turns 2 and 3. I'm not committed to any of these units, so the sky's the limit in changing things around.
What does the second group of hyrbids do? Ido not like them. You will pay 3 CP for the first one for the perfect ambush. 3 CP for the second seems bad. Shurley you are gonne use the stratagem for aberants insread. (Stil, 6 CP?!)
If you have greater good book have the 3 ridgerunners in the same group. Both the laser and stubber stratagem works for the whole unit. I asume you are using the hive cult for their stratgem? I would consider grabbing mining lasers instead of heavy stubbers for the neophytes because you need lasers. If you do that do bladed cog instead for the move and shoot.
You can alternativly cosider having the sanctus sniper (great in bladed cog), the gunslinger or a 10 man group of acolyte hybrids with hand flamers. Use the 2 CP stratagem for the last 2 units.
Othervice looks good enough. Have fun.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/16 23:52:54
I kind of get the impression that you're not a fan of dropping in two CC units, due to the massive CP cost of Perfect Ambush- which makes sense I suppose considering I can only get the 1 battalion at 1000 points.
Would it be more logical to maybe drop the Abberants and 5-man acolyte squad, have just one big 20-man acolyte squad and invest the rest of my points into more shooting?
My only concern is that I don't want to turn the list into just a gunline, 'cause at that point it's a crappier Imperial Guard army.
2020/05/17 10:32:51
Subject: Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
The ridgerunner is not just crappy IG. They are unique and point effective.
You can run 2 squads of melee, but you are comitting 6 of your 8 CP. The therd melee squad is not worth it.
You can consider a handflamer squad of 10 people to use the 1 CP 3" deploy stratagem.
You can consider 2 batalions for 13 cp.
I am not a fan of the stubber grenade launcher squads. One to grab objectives if fine. But 3 of them is a lot. Consider a bare brood brother version for a 33% discountvif they only are there to grabbobjectives.
Had my first match today. I rolled 1, 1, 1, 2, 4 for my Ridgerunner's 6 heavy mining laser damage rolls in the alpha strike, then proceeded to get gutted in the following phase by all the big shooty units I couldn't kill turn 1.
But it was a fun time.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/19 03:49:09
2020/05/29 23:45:38
Subject: Re:Codex Genestealer Cults 8th Edition Tactica: Our day of ascention draws near!
BlaxicanX wrote: Had my first match today. I rolled 1, 1, 1, 2, 4 for my Ridgerunner's 6 heavy mining laser damage rolls in the alpha strike, then proceeded to get gutted in the following phase by all the big shooty units I couldn't kill turn 1.
Ouch... That is doubly bothersome because there is no way to fix damage rolls outside of a command reroll. You can stack modifiers to get hitting and wounding on a 2+ with reroll 1's on both, but it doesn't do much good with rolls like that. :(
I suppose if it is any consolation, I took mine out for a spin last Tuesday against Deathguard running some Plagueburst Crawlers. The Ridgerunners did 11 wounds to the first one on the first round and 16 to the other on the second round (after disgusting resilience saves). I was actually using Rusted Claw with some supporting Mining Laser Wolfquads as well, but they didn't get to do much.
On a different note, anyone have thoughts on what has been hinted at for 9th? I have mixed feelings myself at the moment. Improved terrain rules is good for us and vehicles being able to fire into combat is a big boon for our Goliath Trucks (Demo Cache is more attractive) and Rock Grinders (especially with clearance incinerators). Some tweaks to overwatch, falling out of combat, and charging will also be welcome as well. The new command point system I feel a bit mixed on. The current system is ok for us since we like our troops and tend to be CP hungry. If the starting number is significantly higher it could be good for us but time will tell. I am a bit concerned about reserves costing command points though. Depending on how many are available that change could be very problematic for mass ambush-style lists, since such lists are already very command point hungry as is.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/30 00:04:43
