Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
You guys are thinking shallow with that auto hit stratagem, I'd use it on a UM vehicle that's on its second or last bracket so it can still make its points back. Like a dread that can move into a good position but it'd be hitting on 6s

Just play ironhands dude. Don't degrade. That is free btw. No CP required.

But then I miss out on Calgar and Tigarius...

I can make it - 1 to hit at the start of the round too. Honestly I'd love a Sgt chronus riding my repulsor haha

There is nothing meta breaking in this codex. Literally nothing.

There are literally 2nd tier options that other armies are using that are better than anything this army can do.

My just for SNG's chaos knight infernals will murder pwn this codex.

3 wound aggressors that lost the ability to reroll wounds does nothing.

Literally the only viable strategy ive seen is making a levi dread unkillable - which I already was doing with a reroll wounds levi.





Automatically Appended Next Post:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:
You guys are thinking shallow with that auto hit stratagem, I'd use it on a UM vehicle that's on its second or last bracket so it can still make its points back. Like a dread that can move into a good position but it'd be hitting on 6s

Just play ironhands dude. Don't degrade. That is free btw. No CP required.

But then I miss out on Calgar and Tigarius...

I can make it - 1 to hit at the start of the round too. Honestly I'd love a Sgt chronus riding my repulsor haha

He cant ride in that repulsor sadly. baby marines not allowed. Also that would be like a 380 point repulsor....

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is nothing meta breaking in this codex. Literally nothing.

There are literally 2nd tier options that other armies are using that are better than anything this army can do.

GOOD

seriously people need to stop whining everytime a new codex comes out and it's not a pile of OP broken gak. the Marine codex is good, but if it's strong but not over powering (especially as metabreaking is inevitably something that interacts with the rules in a weird way that GW clearly didn't expoect) thats good. if the Marine codex is strong without being voerpowered that is exactly what we should want

Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

Sounds like the marine version of orks. Perfect. Or at least, a lot more perfect. Gman's aura was disruptive and undesirable.

Xeno, as a Knight player (and Ultramarines) in general, I lose with my knights to game play more than Model removed from the table.

THe expectation that you need to Kill the knights to win is false.

Because IK firepower is not that exceptional now except for krast crusader or maybe castellan vs someone with no ranged answers.

 Crimson wrote:
Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

If your other chapters of marines do not exceed marines with gman aura power level. This codex is a complete waste of time and effort. They aren't doing that btw.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

If your other chapters of marines do not exceed marines with gman aura power level. This codex is a complete waste of time and effort. They aren't doing that btw.

Of course it is not waste to make more builds viable. And I predict that you're wrong about the power level of this codex.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

If your other chapters of marines do not exceed marines with gman aura power level. This codex is a complete waste of time and effort. They aren't doing that btw.

Yeah but we also haven't seen all of the supplements, plus I don't want to have to take Guilliman to be relevant.

 Crimson wrote:

Of course it is not wast to make more builds viable. And I predict that you're wrong about the power level of this codex.

Schrodinger's Codex. Simultaneously trash and god tier OP at the same time.

Dakka never changes.

I'm not sure if this codex will be tournament meta breaking powerful. Remains to be seen. I am pretty certain it will be obnoxiously powerful in casual play though.

I don't think its crazy for this codex to be around Ork level.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

If your other chapters of marines do not exceed marines with gman aura power level. This codex is a complete waste of time and effort. They aren't doing that btw.

Yeah but we also haven't seen all of the supplements, plus I don't want to have to take Guilliman to be relevant.

Nether did I - making the army weaker overall is not the answer though. To much hate against our own players. Most marine players in this thread are just happy they are better than ultramarines now - they could care less that they still have no chance against competitive armies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seriosuly I think the army gets wrecked by mono custodes at this point. At lease with gman I could beat them. Now they just walk over us because we have to wound them on 5's. GG marines.

Well, they had a 44% chance before. You really think its worse now?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Nether did I - making the army weaker overall is not the answer though.

Good thing then that this didn't happen.

To much hate against our own players. Most marine players in this thread are just happy they are better than ultramarines now

That certainly is a a major victory. Not being forced to that idiotic Guilliman monobuild to be even somewhat viable is an amazing thing.

they could care less that they still have no chance against competitive armies.

I indeed could care less about that. Which means that I care about it somewhat, even though it is not my primary concern. I care more about a decent amount of different builds being viable in casual environment though.

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

If your other chapters of marines do not exceed marines with gman aura power level. This codex is a complete waste of time and effort. They aren't doing that btw.

Yeah but we also haven't seen all of the supplements, plus I don't want to have to take Guilliman to be relevant.

Nether did I - making the army weaker overall is not the answer though. To much hate against our own players. Most marine players in this thread are just happy they are better than ultramarines now - they could care less that they still have no chance against competitive armies.

All things considered I wouldn't say my current list is weaker I'd say it's significantly stronger. Though I'll have to remake it since repulsors went up, but I already had to go down to double repulsors before even getting my Executioner. But this new vehicle... I could probably get 2 plus a unit of reivers(everybody deserves a second chance) in exchange of the repulsor or I might dabble, swap out an intercessor squad for infiltrators, try the new stealth dread etc...

I'm gonna hold out on a verdict on if the army is weaker or not after I have it in my hands and a couple games under my belt

It's wasted breath to try and talk with Xeno at this point. The codex is trash, the sky is falling, Marines will lose to mono Gloomspite gitz.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
Xeno, do you understand that some people played marines without your stupid Primarch? Those builds got a lot better. And overall Ultras got much better as well, and if you weren't stuck in your monobuild mindset you'd realise this too.

If your other chapters of marines do not exceed marines with gman aura power level. This codex is a complete waste of time and effort. They aren't doing that btw.

Yeah but we also haven't seen all of the supplements, plus I don't want to have to take Guilliman to be relevant.

Nether did I - making the army weaker overall is not the answer though. To much hate against our own players. Most marine players in this thread are just happy they are better than ultramarines now - they could care less that they still have no chance against competitive armies.

All things considered I wouldn't say my current list is weaker I'd say it's significantly stronger. Though I'll have to remake it since repulsors went up, but I already had to go down to double repulsors before even getting my Executioner. But this new vehicle... I could probably get 2 plus a unit of reivers(everybody deserves a second chance) in exchange of the repulsor or I might dabble, swap out an intercessor squad for infiltrators, try the new stealth dread etc...

I'm gonna hold out on a verdict on if the army is weaker or not after I have it in my hands and a couple games under my belt

You wernt playing gman though. The army did get better without gman (like if you were just using calgar). Playing ultras without gman though in the past I felt impotent as my army hits like a wet noodle. It's not going to get much better ether. AP doesn't mean much when you can't wound. Will be interesting to use the faith of oath ability and get free gman buff for getting close to an enemy.

heck I'm even looking forward to being able to play Gulliman casually without being TFG.

Why can't marines wound with their menagerie of S5 stuff?

To be fair, the new SM codex provides:

Discounts across a wide range of units, a pretty consistent community request.
Chapter Tactics applied to all units, a pretty consistent community request.

If that was all it did, I don't think there would be a lot of room to complain. However, they went beyond that and provided:

Updated units, improved Marines in general.
Improved some of the more underwhelming weapons.
Added more to differentiate the chapters from one another (new strats, new chapter abilities, etc).

Then they even went beyond that:

They provided incentive not to soup without penalizing soup, a pretty consistent community request.

I mean, I don't think Xeno is wildly off-base, this doesn't instantly make Marines top tier, but it definitely gives them a puncher's chance.

Lastly, it's obvious that they listened to the community even if they didn't just write every suggestion you had into the new book verbatim. Maybe give it a ride and see how it plays given that they clearly listened and responded.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is nothing meta breaking in this codex. Literally nothing.

There are literally 2nd tier options that other armies are using that are better than anything this army can do.

GOOD

seriously people need to stop whining everytime a new codex comes out and it's not a pile of OP broken gak. the Marine codex is good, but if it's strong but not over powering (especially as metabreaking is inevitably something that interacts with the rules in a weird way that GW clearly didn't expoect) thats good. if the Marine codex is strong without being voerpowered that is exactly what we should want

Right?! Thank you.

yeah but as I said, I'm not sure I want the codex to be "top tier" top tier codices are almost always 2 or 3 broken units tossed into a soup and spammed., I'd rather a good consistant codex where everything (or as much as possiable) is viable.

How is that a good thing when the next codex is going to be OP GAK?

 Xenomancers wrote:
How is that a good thing when the next codex is going to be OP GAK?

or the next codex could be "codex grey knights 2 underwhelming boogaloo"

 Xenomancers wrote:
How is that a good thing when the next codex is going to be OP GAK?

Easy on the doom and gloom Cassandra.

I think its fair to say demons are still gonna be an issue. Maybe orks, too. The AP stuff won't help there, and except for gravis, most marines picked up zero new durability.

Well, that‘s the story of 8th.

Every Codex for every army mainly improved the damage output (dpa? damage per turn? damage per point?) with ever more shots, more attacks, more and better re-rolls, more double-activations, better AP, more ways to ignore modifiers or silly things like range or line of sight, made cc-units get in there more reliable, etc.. yet most armies are still basically only as resilient/defensive as they were in index-days (and the few non-Horde exceptions like -1 armies are apparently getting rolled back as well).

I don’t see the overall trend towards ever more glasshammer-40K changing anytime soon.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
There is nothing meta breaking in this codex. Literally nothing.

There are literally 2nd tier options that other armies are using that are better than anything this army can do.

GOOD

seriously people need to stop whining everytime a new codex comes out and it's not a pile of OP broken gak. the Marine codex is good, but if it's strong but not over powering (especially as metabreaking is inevitably something that interacts with the rules in a weird way that GW clearly didn't expoect) thats good. if the Marine codex is strong without being voerpowered that is exactly what we should want

But muh power creep claims!