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How do?

Not sure if peeps have seen this, but the forthcoming Codex Space Marines only grants the Dev/Tac/Assault Doctrine if all units in your army (not detachment) benefit from the Doctrines (so have the same Keyword), expecting Unaligned Keyword.

So one can still seemingly Soup different Chapters, but chucking in Loyal 32 or a Knight denies access to the Doctrines.

So you still get some benefits of being Marines, but lose out on a not inconsiderable freebie,

I like it, soups still plenty viable, but a pure marines army gets a powerful tool

It almost feels akin to free, army wide Stratagems?

Which should, depending on a player’s preference, offset the need for Loyal 32?

IMO it's great. Marines should be operating mostly independently anyways (for individual battles, not necessarily in-theater).
I would have rather they been limited to Chapter specific to cut down the chances of super-friends, honestly.

 Insectum7 wrote:
IMO it's great. Marines should be operating mostly independently anyways (for individual battles, not necessarily in-theater).
I would have rather they been limited to Chapter specific to cut down the chances of super-friends, honestly.

I suspect that was the intention but as usual GW missed the way we could game the RAW.

I’m interested to see how other books follow this, if indeed it is an incentive against Soup?

I’m far from familiar with the game these days, so relying on others to inform. But do these actually replicate any current Astartes Stratagems or not?

If not, what do you think could be introduced for the other armies?

Tbh, it's an incentive, but an incentive that only really helps against infantry.

Not Online!!! wrote:
Tbh, it's an incentive, but an incentive that only really helps against infantry.

Well so far the advanced bonuses for each named chapter rely on having the doctrines active. Those are quite tasty, also devistator doctrine I woukd say certainly helps against non infantry.

Devastator is pretty good against vehicles though. That extra pip of AP can turn an average weapon into one far more reliable?

Again, I’m not speaking from game experience here, or even theory Hammer. But I imagine in the early game, upping even a -1 to a -2 will help get that degradation in quickly?

Gonna need someone able to math Hammer I guess. Or even someone who can confirm if I’m talking mince or not

if for example AdMech had a similar ability, maybe it would make canticles better (e.g. in 7th the more Admech units you had the more powerful the Canticles), i.e. at the moment you have things like re-roll ones to hit, maybe it would change to re-roll ones to hit & wound. or Shroudpsalm which gives cover to the army, might go to +2 to saves as if cover, or allows it to stack with actual cover.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Devastator is pretty good against vehicles though. That extra pip of AP can turn an average weapon into one far more reliable?

Again, I’m not speaking from game experience here, or even theory Hammer. But I imagine in the early game, upping even a -1 to a -2 will help get that degradation in quickly?

Gonna need someone able to math Hammer I guess. Or even someone who can confirm if I’m talking mince or not

Yes it would be except all the actual good tanks and vehicles either have - to hit or an invulnerable.

To which one more ap isn't that usefull.

Even just being able to mince infantry more efficiently isn’t to be sniffed at.

Heavy Bolters strike me as an early benefiiciary, if they see any use. Between this and the souped up Bolter rule? It’s pretty nice!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guess it’ll be easier to judge it’s overall impact once all the combos have been hashed out?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Even just being able to mince infantry more efficiently isn’t to be sniffed at.

Heavy Bolters strike me as an early benefiiciary, if they see any use. Between this and the souped up Bolter rule? It’s pretty nice!


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Guess it’ll be easier to judge it’s overall impact once all the combos have been hashed out?

Don't get me wrong, it is a massive step in the right direction and about bloody time.
I just think that helps mostly against armies that marines not had any issue allready.

The only factions vanilla has a winning record against is BA, DA, Nids, and DG. So I'm not sure that's quite right.

It’ll certainly help shred GSC stuff that’s decided to pop up from below, which is nothing to be sniffed at?

Not Online!!! wrote:
Tbh, it's an incentive, but an incentive that only really helps against infantry.

Extra heavy ap does nothing?

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Tbh, it's an incentive, but an incentive that only really helps against infantry.

Extra heavy ap does nothing?

Certainly not, but most space marine anti tank guns are already AP -3/-4 so they already max out against invul saves whereas every anti infantry gun always benefits.

It's a good step that nevertheless will never see play in a competitive environment. Playing mono marines makes you susceptible to FAR TOO MANY things:

1) AP is never wasted on Marine profiles since they are a 3+ army in almost all aspects.
2) Multiwound damage is never wasted when over half of the units marines are multiwound (excluding vehicles which are by definition multiwound mdoels).
3) Mortal wounds always have a good target on average since the cheapest marine you can get is 11 pts/model (Scout).

As it stands now, Combat Doctrines (and therefore the additional bonuses they grant when using Chapter-specific Supplements) are wasted due to how the game is fundamentally built. All things considered, Combat Doctrines is also a gimmicky due to how it actually works (Step by step and only affecting specific weapons reminds me of the gakky Idoneth Deekpkin mechanic which is literally telling you how you should play your army turn after turn) and the limitations they have built in

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
Tbh, it's an incentive, but an incentive that only really helps against infantry.

Extra heavy ap does nothing?

some people tend to belvie a unit is worthless if you can't one shot an IK with it