Switch Theme:

+ Space Marines 8th Edition Codex Mark II Tactica +  [RSS] Share on facebook Share on Twitter Submit to Reddit
»
Author Message
Advert


Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
  • No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
  • Times and dates in your local timezone.
  • Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
  • Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
  • Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.




Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Put me down for the Iron Hand bonus being that while they're in devastator they get a 5+++ FNP. That would be incredible good and easily place them at the top of marines barring some really stellar options from other chapters. It would also add up with some comments made by FLG about how they were notably durable which I'm not sure would be said with just a 6+++.

Imperial Fists on the other hand I'm not too sure what their bonus could be. I'm thinking perhaps they count as being in cover while in dev doctrine.

 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Has anyone tried a drop pod yet? I’m still thinking 200some points for the ability to drop grav devs turn 1 onward seems pretty good. It’ll do some serious damage if ignored, but isn’t too many wasted points if screened out until late.

Seems like a good addition, but then I’ve got so many “seems like a good addition” units I want to include there went all my points for the core stuff... :p
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Pandabeer wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
That’s interesting about the vindicators. I was thinking they look like a pretty durable unit for their price, with quite a lot of T8 wounds. Now they always get d6 shots they’re kind of like an IK thermal cannon for a small fraction of the cost.


Even better IMO. It's S10 compared to the Thermal Cannons' S9 and it's a flat D3 instead of Dd6 which means more reliability,.


Um, what? Demolisher cannons are still d6 damage.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





So the more I think about it the more I am coming around to suppressors. 90 points for the squad they are very comparable to hellblasters and largely seem to outshine them all the while being cheaper. 165 points gets you five hellblasters with 5-10 shots that while they can move and shoot at no penalty they are also required to overcharge against big threats (risky) and only get 10 shots at 15 inches or less.

Alternatively, you can get 6 suppressors for just 180 points to spit out 12 s7 ap-2 (3 with dev doctrine) flat 2 damage shots up to 48 inches away all the while having no chance of killing themselves. In addition they do have fly if they need it. I really feel like suppressors are going to shine big time with devastator doctrine focused chapters.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/19 23:19:57


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Tibs Ironblood wrote:
Put me down for the Iron Hand bonus being that while they're in devastator they get a 5+++ FNP. That would be incredible good and easily place them at the top of marines barring some really stellar options from other chapters. It would also add up with some comments made by FLG about how they were notably durable which I'm not sure would be said with just a 6+++.

Imperial Fists on the other hand I'm not too sure what their bonus could be. I'm thinking perhaps they count as being in cover while in dev doctrine.
It would be incredibly OP. LOL.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes



NY

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
tksolway wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:

iron hands. They are getting a devastator super doctrine


Is this a rumor, or do you have a source?

The people who gave overall correct rumors regarding this codex apparently said that the Imperial Fists and Iron Hands had the strongest ones and implied that it was because it related to the Devastator Doctrine as it's an early benefit.


Yeah on one of the podcasts they stated iron hands and salamanders are going to hit like trucks. Waiting for those supps myself to see which one I want to build.

Where is your saviour now?

"War is an act of force, and there are no limitations to the application of that force" - Clausewitz 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






Azuza001 wrote:
I run vidicators in my black templars list. Played a 1500 pt game yesterday with 2 of them. T1 they moved up and failed to do anything of note (4 wounds to a forgefiend). Then 1 got blown away by a defiler (tsons souped up defiler with double las cannon). 2nd vindicator blew the defiler away 2nd turn (4 shots, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 14 dmg, boom baby) and it never took a wound rest of the game. For 125 pts they are a killer deal i think, especially with a marine force that can put sooo much pressure on the opponent t1.

You need Chapter master to make them worth it. Ofc their damage is higly variable with random shots and damage. The Averages are pretty high. 2 of them firing at a forge fiend should have netted. 5 hits (with rerolls) with 3 wounds and 7 damage after invo saves.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




I do run a chapter master. He is a primaris captain with the vox upgrade for a 9" reroll bubble since the templars lost our crusaders helm :( .

Now for 2cp though its silly to not upgrade i think. I was happy paying 3cp for the ability... lol.

Yeah they are swingy but they only have to shine once and suddenly your opponent will be dealthy afraid of them. I was running 3 before, i miss the loss of the strat (pulling the template out in 8th edition always made my opponents puzzled then scared, how dare i use a template weapon in 8th edition! Lol) but still 3 of them are just as nasty now. That change to d6 shots is terrific.
   
Made in ca
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion





I expect the crusader helm will be in the supplement.

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in us
Legendary Master of the Chapter





Chicago, Illinois

It really seems there really isn't a tactical army for just mainline troops yet where they have extreme survivability. Though i am surprised we didn't have any tactical squad stratagems.

Also do people think tactical squads and grav weapons are finally worth taking?

From whom are unforgiven we bring the mercy of war. 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Given the way things were going, did not expect to be tempted to have to buy yet more Rhino chassis vehicles...Think you can just add the Vindicator's cannon and dozer blade section onto an existing Rhino or would the front connection not work properly?
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Tacticals are totally worth it if your running drop pods i think. They still are 3+ 1w models so you cant throw them out wherever you want but getting that squad right on the front lines t1 or behind enemy lines garunteed t2 or 3 is a very useful ability.

Grav cannon deviststors seem very good too as long as you have the cp to keep feeding them.

I think the real winner is the thunderfire cannon. Dropped a bit in cost, and if you can keep feeding it 2cp a turn this thing fires 8d3 str 5 ap-1 (ap-2 turn 1) dmg 1 at 48" no los needed? Heck yeah.... i just love this thing.

Or a whirlwind with the castallen launcher? 4d6 str 6 ap-1 (t1) 1dmg? These things could just remove screens like they were made from paper on their own... granted thats all with a single strat, but still... i like it a lot.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
You need to be specific on how strictly Primaris you are.


I have:

Gravis cap
2 lt
2 librarians
1 phobos lib, cap, lt
Guilliman, calgar

Almost 20 intercessors
15 hell blasters
6 aggressors
10 of the shadowspear troops
3 bolt inceptors
Apothecary
Ancient
Suppressors
Eliminators
10 reivers, half different loadouts
2 dreads opposite loadouts
Repulsor Las'd out
6 aggressors
Stormhawk is my only non primaris and I hope to keep it that way
   
Made in us
Been Around the Block




I’m still a bit unclear how the blood ravens chapter tactics work with also selecting a second and also a successor.
Could someone clarify?
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




dogfender wrote:
I’m still a bit unclear how the blood ravens chapter tactics work with also selecting a second and also a successor.
Could someone clarify?


The Blood Ravens tactic is now part of the list of successor chapter traits. As such, you can now pick any 2 from the list or use Inheritors of the Primarch to just copy 1 of the fixed Chapter traits. I.E Ultramarines trait. (btw this has also made me realise I shouldn’t ever consider buying WD’s just for rules releases).

After that, you can pick which 1st founding Chapter you want to be a successor of. If you use Inheritors then you have to pick the Chapter that matches the trait you chose. If you don’t, then you can pick any Chapter and then use their supplement.
   
Made in fi
Hoary Long Fang with Lascannon




Finland

So what do you think, is full a full primaris army viable now? Not planning to win at top tables but would like to do reasonably well.

I have literally nothing at the moment so given a clean slate, what kind of army would work reasonably well? I'm partial to Imperial Fists so something that would make the most out of their chapter traits. Speaking of chapter traits, do you suppose they are getting even better special rules in their eventual supplement?

7000+
3500
2000 
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Weazel wrote:
So what do you think, is full a full primaris army viable now? Not planning to win at top tables but would like to do reasonably well.

I have literally nothing at the moment so given a clean slate, what kind of army would work reasonably well? I'm partial to Imperial Fists so something that would make the most out of their chapter traits. Speaking of chapter traits, do you suppose they are getting even better special rules in their eventual supplement?

The newer codex seems to favour mixing and matching old and new marine's for best output, but can mainly primaris work sure as can mainly old marines the codex is actually at a baseline to be casually viable, by that I mean it's not going to be meta defining but you can build an army with some units you like for flavour and build out from the core battalion with your TAC list.
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

So is it legal to fire a thunderfire twice (using the fire twice stratagem stratagem) including a tremor shell ?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
I run vidicators in my black templars list. Played a 1500 pt game yesterday with 2 of them. T1 they moved up and failed to do anything of note (4 wounds to a forgefiend). Then 1 got blown away by a defiler (tsons souped up defiler with double las cannon). 2nd vindicator blew the defiler away 2nd turn (4 shots, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 14 dmg, boom baby) and it never took a wound rest of the game. For 125 pts they are a killer deal i think, especially with a marine force that can put sooo much pressure on the opponent t1.

You need Chapter master to make them worth it. Ofc their damage is higly variable with random shots and damage. The Averages are pretty high. 2 of them firing at a forge fiend should have netted. 5 hits (with rerolls) with 3 wounds and 7 damage after invo saves.


7 damages for 250 pts + rerolls (so a Chapter Master) seems terribly weak.

   
Made in gb
Ship's Officer



London

 godardc wrote:
So is it legal to fire a thunderfire twice (using the fire twice stratagem stratagem) including a tremor shell ?

You can, yes. The tremor shells stratagem lasts for the duration of the phase.
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 godardc wrote:
So is it legal to fire a thunderfire twice (using the fire twice stratagem stratagem) including a tremor shell ?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
I run vidicators in my black templars list. Played a 1500 pt game yesterday with 2 of them. T1 they moved up and failed to do anything of note (4 wounds to a forgefiend). Then 1 got blown away by a defiler (tsons souped up defiler with double las cannon). 2nd vindicator blew the defiler away 2nd turn (4 shots, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 14 dmg, boom baby) and it never took a wound rest of the game. For 125 pts they are a killer deal i think, especially with a marine force that can put sooo much pressure on the opponent t1.

You need Chapter master to make them worth it. Ofc their damage is higly variable with random shots and damage. The Averages are pretty high. 2 of them firing at a forge fiend should have netted. 5 hits (with rerolls) with 3 wounds and 7 damage after invo saves.


7 damages for 250 pts + rerolls (so a Chapter Master) seems terribly weak.


7 dmg is the average without a chapter master.
Doing quick/dirty math

2 of them on average get 7 shots. Bs 3 rerolling thats gonna net you 6 hits. Wounding vs t9 - t 6 thats going to be 4 wounds. Assuming 5++ save thats 3 that get through for an average of 10-11 dmg.

The things to keep in mind are
1. Its a swingy weapon platform d6 shots with d6 dmg can equal anywhere between 1 and 36 dmg if everything hit and wounded.
2. Its range is only 24", so at least t1 your going to be moving and shooting so bs becomes 4+.
3. No invulnerable and only a 3+ save means if they get past your t8 your gonna have a bad day.


But i think they are still worth it. Their threat potential is high. As a distraction unit a few of them moving up the center will get shot at. Or as a flank holding unit they will do well. And 125 is a very good cost for it. What else for 125 pts has the damage potential of 4 las cannons?
   
Made in gb
Slippery Scout Biker




Cambridge, UK

Mandragola wrote:
 godardc wrote:
So is it legal to fire a thunderfire twice (using the fire twice stratagem stratagem) including a tremor shell ?

You can, yes. The tremor shells stratagem lasts for the duration of the phase.


On the previous page I posted this question:

 ewar wrote:
Whilst waiting for my book to arrive, I've been pondering all the news.

What are people's thoughts about relic scorpius? How does it interact with scions of guilliman and the shoot twice strat? I know it's cheeky, but I'm thinking that shooting 4 times per turn with extra ap on turn 1 sounds hilarious.


I'm hoping the shoot again strat would activate the scorpius' native ability to shoot twice if it didn't move. 12 D3 indirect shots is very juicy...
   
Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut




 ewar wrote:
Mandragola wrote:
 godardc wrote:
So is it legal to fire a thunderfire twice (using the fire twice stratagem stratagem) including a tremor shell ?

You can, yes. The tremor shells stratagem lasts for the duration of the phase.


On the previous page I posted this question:

 ewar wrote:
Whilst waiting for my book to arrive, I've been pondering all the news.

What are people's thoughts about relic scorpius? How does it interact with scions of guilliman and the shoot twice strat? I know it's cheeky, but I'm thinking that shooting 4 times per turn with extra ap on turn 1 sounds hilarious.


I'm hoping the shoot again strat would activate the scorpius' native ability to shoot twice if it didn't move. 12 D3 indirect shots is very juicy...

It's been covered and it's not worded as shoot twice it's an additional time no x2 x2 its x2+1 2 regular whirlwind are cheaper.
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut





Holy gak guys just got the codex in the mail holy gak im so excited holy gak lookin it over now holy gak this is awsome holy gak
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






I'm not too excited about this whirlwind strata. The best I would think would be the vengence launcher getting 4d3 str 7 ap-2 (dev doc) flat 2 damage. That is only 80 points for that damage which is really good however - it's another CP sink that I don't think I can afford. I think later in the game fighting twice with a MOH character is going to be far better use of CP and these things aren't worth taking without the stratagem (TFC/WW). Some list I think will make good use of them but I think I'll pass.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
Made in fr
Inquisitorial Keeper of the Xenobanks





France

Spoiler:

Azuza001 wrote:
 godardc wrote:
So is it legal to fire a thunderfire twice (using the fire twice stratagem stratagem) including a tremor shell ?

 Xenomancers wrote:
Azuza001 wrote:
I run vidicators in my black templars list. Played a 1500 pt game yesterday with 2 of them. T1 they moved up and failed to do anything of note (4 wounds to a forgefiend). Then 1 got blown away by a defiler (tsons souped up defiler with double las cannon). 2nd vindicator blew the defiler away 2nd turn (4 shots, 4 hits, 3 wounds, 14 dmg, boom baby) and it never took a wound rest of the game. For 125 pts they are a killer deal i think, especially with a marine force that can put sooo much pressure on the opponent t1.

You need Chapter master to make them worth it. Ofc their damage is higly variable with random shots and damage. The Averages are pretty high. 2 of them firing at a forge fiend should have netted. 5 hits (with rerolls) with 3 wounds and 7 damage after invo saves.


7 damages for 250 pts + rerolls (so a Chapter Master) seems terribly weak.


7 dmg is the average without a chapter master.
Doing quick/dirty math

2 of them on average get 7 shots. Bs 3 rerolling thats gonna net you 6 hits. Wounding vs t9 - t 6 thats going to be 4 wounds. Assuming 5++ save thats 3 that get through for an average of 10-11 dmg.

The things to keep in mind are
1. Its a swingy weapon platform d6 shots with d6 dmg can equal anywhere between 1 and 36 dmg if everything hit and wounded.
2. Its range is only 24", so at least t1 your going to be moving and shooting so bs becomes 4+.
3. No invulnerable and only a 3+ save means if they get past your t8 your gonna have a bad day.


But i think they are still worth it. Their threat potential is high. As a distraction unit a few of them moving up the center will get shot at. Or as a flank holding unit they will do well. And 125 is a very good cost for it. What else for 125 pts has the damage potential of 4 las cannons?



Ah ok I see, 10-11 is way better, and 7 without CM is still acceptable. Especially on T9.
Thank you.
I guess I'm still not used to the change from 7th to 9th: it used to be able to clean troops while now it's an antitank platform.

What are the best anti infantry units except for the obvious aggressors ? Scout bikers ? Intercessors ? Vanguard veterans with chainsaws ?

   
Made in us
Possessed Khorne Marine Covered in Spikes



NY

 Xenomancers wrote:
I'm not too excited about this whirlwind strata. The best I would think would be the vengence launcher getting 4d3 str 7 ap-2 (dev doc) flat 2 damage. That is only 80 points for that damage which is really good however - it's another CP sink that I don't think I can afford. I think later in the game fighting twice with a MOH character is going to be far better use of CP and these things aren't worth taking without the stratagem (TFC/WW). Some list I think will make good use of them but I think I'll pass.


Some lists for sure can make good use of then. Imperial fist ww's with devastator doctrine can do some work. Ignoring cover and -2 ap is pretty nice against tau. Also tremor shell tfc can really hamper big blocks of assaulters like genestealers and demons if those are giving you trouble.

That being said I'm not sure I'd bring them in an all comers list unless the armies mentioned above are running rampant in your areA

Where is your saviour now?

"War is an act of force, and there are no limitations to the application of that force" - Clausewitz 
   
Made in ca
Implacable Skitarii




Ottawa, Canada

 godardc wrote:
What are the best anti infantry units except for the obvious aggressors ? Scout bikers ? Intercessors ? Vanguard veterans with chainsaws ?


Sicaran Punishers maybe?

| | Krieg | |
30k: Alpha Legion | | Blackshields 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




Eh, i typically run 3 whirlwinds and 2 thunderfire cannons. I love the artillety bombardments, use them to clear chaff / targets the enemy is trying to hide early game. The strat allows me to cut them down to 2 whirlwinds and 2 tfc or 3 whirlwinds and a tfc. This leaves me points to spend somewhere else to get me to full batallion size. So this makes me happy.

I do love 2d3 str 7 ap-2 2dmg shots, using the strat your getting almost armiget levels of fire output for half the cost and some cp. Its all about how you want to spend that cp.
   
Made in us
Fresh-Faced New User




Redacted

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2019/08/20 16:50:04


 
   
Made in us
Omnipotent Necron Overlord






 Orodhen wrote:
 godardc wrote:
What are the best anti infantry units except for the obvious aggressors ? Scout bikers ? Intercessors ? Vanguard veterans with chainsaws ?


Sicaran Punishers maybe?

Space marines have no shortage of anti infantry options. Redemptor dread is great for it too but can also smash tanks. Devestator cents aren't bad...can even take gravcannons and huricanes for 70 points now. 2 less shots but far more deadly.

If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder 
   
 
Forum Index » 40K General Discussion
Go to: