Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I would drop the rhinos for 3 vindicators in that list but otherwise looks like it would be fun to play

 DoomMouse wrote:
Had another go at writing a list and realized you can put a serious amount of T7-8 3+ armour (2+ outside 12") on the field. Throw a hunter killer missile on everything (as T1 they can reroll to hit and wound with master artisans and they'll be AP-3) and add a storm bolter to everything for a bonus 48 bolter shots for 24pts...

Ultramarines successor - master artisans and stealthy

Captain on bike with storm bolter (upgrade to CM for full rerolls). He also puts out 8 shots per turn.
Lieutenant with UM relic of full rerolls to wound and storm bolter
Techmarine
3 units of intercessors (if you don't feel like having CP could swap these for eliminators or assault cents)
3 Hunters (SB + HKM)
3 stalkers (SB + HKM)
3 Whirlwinds (SB + HKM)
4 Rhinos (Double SB + HKM) - use these as screens
3 Invictor suits with autocannons

Thats almost 180 T6-8 wounds on a 2+ sv outside 12 inches... The initial HKM punch alone should down almost two russes

Haha, I like that Artisans-HKM combo. I would seriously consider running my 10 Razorback with Twin-Las HKM list with Artisan, theres some amazing first strike capability.

bmsattler wrote:
I like that multiple vehicle list, that's pretty rad.

If trying to out-range Tau, remember they can move, advance, and still shoot as if standing still with their once-per-game ability. I've lost a game to this before.

True, but if they do so they pretty much halve their ability to shoot for a round because they can't reroll all failed hits instead. Tau players tend to overextend when they do so as well.

Azuza001 wrote:
I would drop the rhinos for 3 vindicators in that list but otherwise looks like it would be fun to play

Hmmm, yeah vindicators are a good shout!

I think I'd be most scared of a horde wrapping a tank and making their units unshootable, but the list seems pretty scary to deal with at range. It easily kills a 4++ knight turn 1 when factoring in the HKM strike.

I feel like the stalkers are a hidden gem. They basically get a super-lascannon, T8 and an extra wound for 8pts on top of a rhino chassis! Add in a storm bolter and an HKM and that's a tank that will win in a straight armour vs armour fight against a lot of opponents (and is obvs particularly good vs flyers)

Hunter is the "Lascannon", the Stalker is the Autocannon one.

How are you getting that many Heavy Support slots?

 DoomMouse wrote:
Had another go at writing a list and realized you can put a serious amount of T7-8 3+ armour (2+ outside 12") on the field. Throw a hunter killer missile on everything (as T1 they can reroll to hit and wound with master artisans and they'll be AP-3) and add a storm bolter to everything for a bonus 48 bolter shots for 24pts...

Ultramarines successor - master artisans and stealthy

Captain on bike with storm bolter (upgrade to CM for full rerolls). He also puts out 8 shots per turn.
Lieutenant with UM relic of full rerolls to wound and storm bolter
Techmarine
3 units of intercessors (if you don't feel like having CP could swap these for eliminators or assault cents)
3 Hunters (SB + HKM)
3 stalkers (SB + HKM)
3 Whirlwinds (SB + HKM)
4 Rhinos (Double SB + HKM) - use these as screens
3 Invictor suits with autocannons

Thats almost 180 T6-8 wounds on a 2+ sv outside 12 inches... The initial HKM punch alone should down almost two russes

Weird question - can you still take a dedicated transport even when you have nothing it can transport?

Lemondish wrote:

 DoomMouse wrote:
Had another go at writing a list and realized you can put a serious amount of T7-8 3+ armour (2+ outside 12") on the field. Throw a hunter killer missile on everything (as T1 they can reroll to hit and wound with master artisans and they'll be AP-3) and add a storm bolter to everything for a bonus 48 bolter shots for 24pts...

Ultramarines successor - master artisans and stealthy

Captain on bike with storm bolter (upgrade to CM for full rerolls). He also puts out 8 shots per turn.
Lieutenant with UM relic of full rerolls to wound and storm bolter
Techmarine
3 units of intercessors (if you don't feel like having CP could swap these for eliminators or assault cents)
3 Hunters (SB + HKM)
3 stalkers (SB + HKM)
3 Whirlwinds (SB + HKM)
4 Rhinos (Double SB + HKM) - use these as screens
3 Invictor suits with autocannons

Thats almost 180 T6-8 wounds on a 2+ sv outside 12 inches... The initial HKM punch alone should down almost two russes

Weird question - can you still take a dedicated transport even when you have nothing it can transport?

You can take one transport for each other unit you take, it doesn't have to be transport-able.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 casvalremdeikun wrote:
How are you getting that many Heavy Support slots?

3 Spearhead Detachments, looks like.

Hunters would be pretty okay if you could take 10 of them. Basically have 110 t8 wounds pumping out a reroll lascannon shooting all game but since you can only take 3...They can pretty much be ignored. Stalkers are much better IMO. If you put them in a reroll aura (you should) they actually outshoot most units and they are actually very tough to boot. Plus you just rek anything with fly. I like the cheap SM mech spam idea.

Once the new transports come out I plan to try a version of what doom mouse is saying.

Stalkers
Vincticators
Invictors (with missles)
redemptors
impuslors

Idea being you can just put so many wounds out there that your opponent cant kill you as Iron hands. Could be fun.

Vehicles can still be charged, piled into, consolidated into. Even if the enemy cant kill 180 T7-8 wounds, hordes can shut it down. And you wont be able to kill 150+ models with your vehicles only lists. I think dreads are still superior to tanks, because they can fight back when charged, even if they dont have a CCW.

Ah yeah, my mistake. I did mean the hunter (though I like both a lot)

My original list was a battalion and a spearhead for 9 heavy support slots (the invictors are elites I believe).

Hordes would be a rough match up. I think I'd try and play cagey with the intercessors and deploy the invictors with the gun line to have a decent counter charge element. Plaguebearers would be a bad match up though.

Impulsors could be a good screening unit against hordes - can fall back and shoot and they give -1 to charge. I could see arguments for using any / all.of the top mounted options too.

Could definitely see redemtors or leviathans pushing up at the front working well too. Or just more intercessors for anti infantry / scoring objectives.

A question regarding the martial precision strata gem from the UM Sup:
What is the meaning of: “When resolving that attack, ...“

Does this means only one attack or i.e. the number of shoot from a weapon?

The single attack I believe

 Xenomancers wrote:
Hunters would be pretty okay if you could take 10 of them. Basically have 110 t8 wounds pumping out a reroll lascannon shooting all game but since you can only take 3...They can pretty much be ignored. Stalkers are much better IMO. If you put them in a reroll aura (you should) they actually outshoot most units and they are actually very tough to boot. Plus you just rek anything with fly. I like the cheap SM mech spam idea.

Once the new transports come out I plan to try a version of what doom mouse is saying.

Stalkers
Vincticators
Invictors (with missles)
redemptors
impuslors

Idea being you can just put so many wounds out there that your opponent cant kill you as Iron hands. Could be fun.

I actually proxied Stalkers on your recommendation with Chronus and I was pretty impressed. I'll likely stick with Ultramarines as I hate tarpitting but Iron Hands is still gold in a mostly shooting game. Best safe than sorry though to me.

 p5freak wrote:
Vehicles can still be charged, piled into, consolidated into. Even if the enemy cant kill 180 T7-8 wounds, hordes can shut it down. And you wont be able to kill 150+ models with your vehicles only lists. I think dreads are still superior to tanks, because they can fight back when charged, even if they dont have a CCW.

Yeah that is why I'd use a lot of dreads in the build too. Mostly the high wound ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Hunters would be pretty okay if you could take 10 of them. Basically have 110 t8 wounds pumping out a reroll lascannon shooting all game but since you can only take 3...They can pretty much be ignored. Stalkers are much better IMO. If you put them in a reroll aura (you should) they actually outshoot most units and they are actually very tough to boot. Plus you just rek anything with fly. I like the cheap SM mech spam idea.

Once the new transports come out I plan to try a version of what doom mouse is saying.

Stalkers
Vincticators
Invictors (with missles)
redemptors
impuslors

Idea being you can just put so many wounds out there that your opponent cant kill you as Iron hands. Could be fun.

I actually proxied Stalkers on your recommendation with Chronus and I was pretty impressed. I'll likely stick with Ultramarines as I hate tarpitting but Iron Hands is still gold in a mostly shooting game. Best safe than sorry though to me.

I'm also toying with the idea of chronus is a whirlwind. If you are tapping twice with it. Hitting on 2's will really help. Also that HKM from cronus really hurts from a stalker with sky fire. Hit on 2's likely wound on 2's and with a chance for 2d6 damage. In my last game vs tau he killed 3 units in 1 turn. finished off Longstrike with one icuras shot down a baracusda with the other and killed another hammerhead with his HKM which did 10 wounds on an incredibly lucky roll. Still lost this game though because I wasn't getting any saves on my executioners...

I really need to invest in a dorado dread.

Played a game today with the list i posted up, played vs a guard player who brought 3 tank commanders, a wyvern, a baneblade, and a ton of bodies.

Mission was beach head from chapter approved, i deployed first but deferred to him to go first. I put my devistators in drop pods.

His t1 he put 3 wounds on my whirlwind and killed a scout squad and tactical squad quite easily, but his deployment got the better of him. His infantry got in the way of his tanks and he didnt get everything into effective range. I think he really expected me to go first so was expecting some of those guys to be dead and not an issue lol. I got incredibly lucky with his baneblade wiffing a lot on number of shots and wounds, plus playing ravenguard means i had a 5+ save vs that big battle cannon, so that was a plus.

I dropped my pods down with the las cannon teams near shrike for rerolls and dropped the grav team 24" from one of the commanders. Las cannon teams killed 1 of the tank commanders (bad rolling on my end) but the grav team killed another one on their own thanks to the strat. Very effective unit now i must say.

Turn 2 he moved towards the center objective with his infantry and continued to fire on my guys. Baneblade rolled apsolutly horrible for shot number (he rolled 5 on 3d6) but the last tank comander with a punisher cannon just wiped the floor with the grav team (as expected).

My turn 2 i killed the wyvern with 1 las dev team and the other tank comander with the other las dev team. I then killed more guardsmen leaving him with less than 30 on the table.

T3 he tried to make a comeback, firing on my scouts and shooting the baneblade at the whirlwind again, but only did another 3 dmg to it. We called it here because my devs were just going to blow that away at their leasure and he was losing guardsmen like they were on sale. (He was down to 7 at this point i think).

Overall i am very happy with the list, but think i will continue to tweak it. I am probably going to drop the whirlwind and go pure infantry next but its hard to do.... they are so good now!

Azuza001 wrote:
Las cannon teams killed 1 of the tank commanders (bad rolling on my end)

My turn 2 i killed the wyvern with 1 las dev team and the other tank comander with the other las dev team.

Did you use stratagems or rerolls? How on earth do you oneshot tanks with 4 Lascannons? I mean killing a TC with 8 LC sounds about right, but with 4?

 Xenomancers wrote:

 p5freak wrote:
Vehicles can still be charged, piled into, consolidated into. Even if the enemy cant kill 180 T7-8 wounds, hordes can shut it down. And you wont be able to kill 150+ models with your vehicles only lists. I think dreads are still superior to tanks, because they can fight back when charged, even if they dont have a CCW.

Yeah that is why I'd use a lot of dreads in the build too. Mostly the high wound ones.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Xenomancers wrote:
Hunters would be pretty okay if you could take 10 of them. Basically have 110 t8 wounds pumping out a reroll lascannon shooting all game but since you can only take 3...They can pretty much be ignored. Stalkers are much better IMO. If you put them in a reroll aura (you should) they actually outshoot most units and they are actually very tough to boot. Plus you just rek anything with fly. I like the cheap SM mech spam idea.

Once the new transports come out I plan to try a version of what doom mouse is saying.

Stalkers
Vincticators
Invictors (with missles)
redemptors
impuslors

Idea being you can just put so many wounds out there that your opponent cant kill you as Iron hands. Could be fun.

I actually proxied Stalkers on your recommendation with Chronus and I was pretty impressed. I'll likely stick with Ultramarines as I hate tarpitting but Iron Hands is still gold in a mostly shooting game. Best safe than sorry though to me.

I'm also toying with the idea of chronus is a whirlwind. If you are tapping twice with it. Hitting on 2's will really help. Also that HKM from cronus really hurts from a stalker with sky fire. Hit on 2's likely wound on 2's and with a chance for 2d6 damage. In my last game vs tau he killed 3 units in 1 turn. finished off Longstrike with one icuras shot down a baracusda with the other and killed another hammerhead with his HKM which did 10 wounds on an incredibly lucky roll. Still lost this game though because I wasn't getting any saves on my executioners...

I really need to invest in a dorado dread.

Whirlwind Scorpius would be the best choice. It can naturally shoot twice after all.

Just to check, is chronus in a scorpius 245pts? I know you can often hide him out of LOS, but that's hilariously pricey for a 11 wound T7 vehicle. If you're against eldar flyers, or a ton of basilisks, or just on a board with crap cover he won't be making it to turn 2. I do want to like him but find it hard to justify at such a price for such a fragile tank

the Impulsor is not out yet, but friend o mine and myself wanted to try them out to get a better feel for them, befor deciding to blow money on them
we used our rhinos to "counts as" for the test run,

HOLY SMOKES

Impulsor + hellblasters, hellblaster rush, is frakkin BRUTAL

2 squads of 10 hellblasters, combat squad into 4 squads of 5 befor deployment (because of rule of 3, I did it this way)
toss them into 4 impulsors
toss in a captain and lieutenant

rush them forward, unload, blow stuff up

impulsor is stupid insane hard to kill with 4++
so many possible options opened up with the impulsor and its ability to unload after move, and keeping units inside them very safe and secure

4 squads of 5 intercessors upgraded with veteran stratagem, sergeants with thunderhammers, ancient with banner that gives +1 attack, toss in a chaplain(or librarian), captain, lieutenant .. toss into 4 impulsors rush them forward, unload, shoot stuff

I suspect that we will see a nurf to the impulsor, but only after the sales of declined to a trickle , I know I want at least 4

Gunrunner1775 wrote:
the Impulsor is not out yet, but friend o mine and myself wanted to try them out to get a better feel for them, befor deciding to blow money on them
we used our rhinos to "counts as" for the test run,

HOLY SMOKES

Impulsor + hellblasters, hellblaster rush, is frakkin BRUTAL

2 squads of 10 hellblasters, combat squad into 4 squads of 5 befor deployment (because of rule of 3, I did it this way)
toss them into 4 impulsors
toss in a captain and lieutenant

rush them forward, unload, blow stuff up

impulsor is stupid insane hard to kill with 4++
so many possible options opened up with the impulsor and its ability to unload after move, and keeping units inside them very safe and secure

4 squads of 5 intercessors upgraded with veteran stratagem, sergeants with thunderhammers, ancient with banner that gives +1 attack, toss in a chaplain(or librarian), captain, lieutenant .. toss into 4 impulsors rush them forward, unload, shoot stuff

I suspect that we will see a nurf to the impulsor, but only after the sales of declined to a trickle , I know I want at least 4

How do you protect the one that carries the Captain? I mean he is pretty much instrumental in this tactic unless you want to lose overheating dudes in droves. If his Impulsor is shot down you're SOOL ?

that 4++ makes the impulsor stupid hard to kill,
on "average" will take 12+/- lascannons to take out an impulsor in one round of shooting (not factoring in re-rolls) (opponent could get lucky, but that's all part of the game)

my opponent also stated, its more useful to just shoot other more threatening things and ignore the impulsor, wait for impulsors to unload, weather the damage, then have an appropriate counter attack response (for him, was deepstrike inceptors with plasma, with a jump smash captain supporting) his counter attack took out my hellblasters,

we also noted that this tactic will be fantastic vs other elite type armies, but will be nearly useless vs horde type armies,
either way, it is still an extremly brutal alpha strike, not much will survive 20 hellblasters in RF range - 40 shots overcharging, (with nearby captain/lieutenant)

 Weazel wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
Las cannon teams killed 1 of the tank commanders (bad rolling on my end)

My turn 2 i killed the wyvern with 1 las dev team and the other tank comander with the other las dev team.

Did you use stratagems or rerolls? How on earth do you oneshot tanks with 4 Lascannons? I mean killing a TC with 8 LC sounds about right, but with 4?

4 las cannon shots hitting on 3's with full rerolls from chapter master gave me 4 hits. Str 9 vs t8 i got 3 wounds. Ap-4 from devistator doctrine ment no armor save for him. I rolled high on damage, a 6 and two 4's for 14 total from a single squad. A good roll on my part for sure but average would have been 10 dmg so not that far off.

I'm pretty intrigued by the Impulsor as someone running Salamanders, I wouldn't take the shield dome I don't think but rather the missile launcher since it benefits so greatly from master artisans.

Honestly just to fill up with intercessors + a thunder hammer and after that use it to movement block/ be an somewhat legitimate but mostly annoying threat on an objective.

I fear what the money-to-point ratio will be on these guys though..

Does a Assassin, which I include via the Assasin Strata Gem into the army, negate the Combat Doctrine Rule?

So I have a lot of bikers sitting around and decided to start a small white scars army. I don’t have the codex or supplement yet but I’ve been reading on line. I have some questions. 1. Is there is a codex strat that lets me give a warlord trait to a non named character other than my warlord? 2. I read there might be a white scars strat that gives my warlord a 2nd warlord trait. Is this true. 3. Can I use both these strats? I want a chaplain with 2 traits and a captain with 1 in the same list.

Maxamato wrote:
Does a Assassin, which I include via the Assasin Strata Gem into the army, negate the Combat Doctrine Rule?

This has been addressed either in here or YMDC
If you include an assasin even via strategum not all models have combat doctrines so no combat doctrines for your army.

Hey, can we put sniper scouts in a land speeder storm and shoot them on the move now as ultramarines?

 davou wrote:
Hey, can we put sniper scouts in a land speeder storm and shoot them on the move now as ultramarines?

Couldnt you do that before the new codex ?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Maxamato wrote:
Does a Assassin, which I include via the Assasin Strata Gem into the army, negate the Combat Doctrine Rule?

Q: Does adding an Officio Assassinorum model to my
army with the ‘Operative Requisition Sanctioned’ Stratagem
prevent the rest of my army from using Combat Doctrines?
A: Yes. Note that this model remains part of your army if
it is destroyed.

Q: If an ability or rule generates an additional hit, (e.g. the
Imperial Siege Masters Chapter Tactic), do these additional hits
gain any other benefits that would apply to an attack on a hit
roll of 6 (e.g. an Infiltrator’s marksman bolt carbine)?
A: Yes, the additional hits are treated as having rolled
the same value as the dice roll that generated them.

So that's an interesting FAQ, I've heard some people say those additional hits don't confer any extra benefits, I guess that clears it up.